Dispensational problems

[Zao is life]

Far out, smiles

Yes seventy literal future weeks, and the bad guy is revealed in the 70th week that starts the tribulation, and yes he will be present for 3.5 years making abominations and desolation, all the way up to the consummation (The End)

OK so they're also not "weeks of years" or 70 x 7 years but literal weeks?

I really have been under a complete misunderstanding regarding your understanding of that scripture.

.. but now you might find it'll become another thing we'll argue about till the cows come home every day for the next 70 x 7 weeks (just be ready for in case).

 

[Zao is life]

As a new Christian I was taught that the dispensational system was true.
It took me several years to learn that system..
After studying the book of Hebrews for a few years, I came to take a look at more historic positions.
I never had difficulty with election and predestination, so I eventually discovered that what I see in scripture is definitely Reformed.
I did not know the terms, history, people, or controversies, how ever I knew God is God and we are not.
If I could be of help to you let me know

Out, in Frying pan, fire.

 

[bbyrd009]

but actually, BAD word to use against another Christian or other Christians.

well my apologies, i forget that to most Christians that would be taken as a commentary on their fitness for heaven in the "afterlife"
the concept is still pretty new to me fwiw, and i was more interested in getting it out there for comment

 

[Zao is life]

well my apologies, i forget that to most Christians that would be taken as a commentary on their fitness for heaven in the "afterlife"
the concept is still pretty new to me fwiw, and i was more interested in getting it out there for comment

The Lord's flock only has sheep, who hear the voice of their shepherd and follow Him. Goats have a habit of going their own way.

I thought you were a believer, part of the Lord's flock? If so, you will know His words:

Matthew 25
32 And all nations shall be gathered before Him. And He shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divides the sheep from the goats.

So we can't judge one another so as to decide who is a sheep, and who is a goat, who won't listen to the voice of his shepherd and has left the flock and gone off his own way. So no matter how much or badly we disagree on our interpretation of the scriptures, calling another Christian a "goat" is just wrong. We can't even judge a non-Christian. We are qualified for neither. Only Jesus knows the heart and mind of each human being.

 

[Truth7t7]

OK so they're also not "weeks of years" or 70 x 7 years but literal weeks?

I really have been under a complete misunderstanding regarding your understanding of that scripture.

.. but now you might find it'll become another thing we'll argue about till the cows come home every day for the next 70 x 7 weeks (just be ready for in case).

I never taught nor suggested (70 × 7 weeks) as you claim above, you misrepresent my clear explanation once again

I have clearly stated 70 literal future weeks or 490 literal future days

"70 future literal weeks", that start when the "future" command to rebuild Jerusalem is given

7 weeks in planning, 62 weeks in building, Messiah is cut off when armies surround Jerusalem, in the 70th week the Man Of Sin is revealed in Jerusalem, proclaiming to be God Messiah returned, the 3.5 year tribulation starts at this point

 

[Zao is life]

I never taught nor suggested (70 × 7 weeks) as you claim above, you have twisted my clear explanation once again

I have clearly stated 70 literal future weeks or 490 literal future days

Well my bad and I have already apologized but here's another apology for misrepresenting what you believe. Better rather to never say what you or anyone else believes to prove any point in case I've misunderstood what you believe and I'm misrepresenting what you believe.

I vaguely now remember you saying that before, but it's such an unusual position on Daniel 9:24-27 that I defaulted into assuming you believe Daniel 9:24 started after the first decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem, like 99.99% of everyone else does (you being the 0.1%).

 

[Truth7t7]

Well my bad and I have already apologized but here's another apology for misrepresenting what you believe. Better rather to never say what you or anyone else believes to prove any point in case I've misunderstood what you believe and I'm misrepresenting what you believe.

I vaguely now remember you saying that before, but it's such an unusual position on Daniel 9:24-27 that I defaulted into assuming you believe Daniel 9:24 started after the first decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem, like 99.99% of everyone else does (you being the 0.1%).

Matthew 7:13-16KJV
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

 

[Zao is life]

Matthew 7:13-16KJV
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

? How does this relate?

 

[Truth7t7]

? How does this relate?

You claimed my belief in Daniel's 70 weeks is found in .001 percent of teachings, that's not a broad, but a narrow teaching

Truth isnt going to be found in mainstream, dispensationalism and Preterism are flawed

Satan's goal in the teaching is to hide the evil plot, and it's being done throug mainstream teachings

Pretersit dont believe in a future Antichrist, and dispensationalism hides the 70 future weeks, that is a 483 day sign of the Antichrist getting ready to take the stage, dont forget a literal Jesus taking a throne in Jerusalem to start a Millennium, aka (The Antichrist) in my opinion mainstream deception

Mainstream teachings are silent on the two Witnesses of Revelation 11, with the false teaching they killed in the middle of a 7 year tribulation, with (The Beast) being in total control on earth for the second 3.5 years (A Lie)

 

[Zao is life]

You claimed my belief in Daniel's 70 weeks is found in .001 percent of teachings, that's not a broad, but a narrow teaching

Truth isnt going to be found in mainstream, dispensationalism and Preterism are flawed

Satan's goal in the teaching is to hide the evil plot, and it's being done throug mainstream teachings

Pretersit dont believe in a future Antichrist, and dispensationalism hides the 70 future weeks, that is a 483 day sign of the Antichrist getting ready to take the stage, dont forget a literal Jesus taking a throne in Jerusalem to start a Millennium, aka (The Antichrist) in my opinion mainstream deception

Mainstream teachings are silent on the two Witnesses of Revelation 11, with the false teaching they killed in the middle of a 7 year tribulation, with (The Beast) being in total control on earth for the second 3.5 years (A Lie)

OK I agree with you that consensus is not an instrument whereby truth can be measured. That wasn't why I said that, though. I was only explaining to you why in my mind I defaulted (unconsciously) to thinking you would "naturally" have the commencement of the 70 weeks where most everyone else (including myself) does. I confused myself.

But also, I realized much later that the fact that I misrepresented what you believe in this thread, caused me to inadvertently prove that this thread and its entire "95 theses" against anyone else's beliefs, is a load of presumptuous nonsense, because who knows how many times they misrepresented what anyone else believes - in my case they did that in at least one of their "95 theses" (which I answered when I said that the claim they make is bogus). "They" meaning whoever wrote the so-called "95 theses"

 

[Mjh29]

how about a Presbyterian believe?

(Pokes head up)
...

 

[bbyrd009]

So we can't judge one another so as to decide who is a sheep, and who is a goat, who won't listen to the voice of his shepherd and has left the flock and gone off his own way.

i suggest that feed my sheep pretty much demands it, but you might be right

So no matter how much or badly we disagree on our interpretation of the scriptures, calling another Christian a "goat" is just wrong.

well, i simply made the statement “goats butt heads,” and didnt really mean it specific to anyone, fwiw. I stated that to gg, i think?

I wouldn't say no one, but there is a lot of disagreement. Personally I think it's got more to do with how we understand Israel than anything else.

goats butt heads, i think?

ok, so marks then, and gg. Maybe i got more specific w/gg w/o meaning to, but the one to marks seems general enough?

We can't even judge a non-Christian.

im not sure its about judgement so much as expediency, or even self preservation; at a certain point in many debates, dont you come to a realization that you and the other guy are not going to get any closer, and break off, basically? You have made a judgement of sorts, right, that does not require any denigration of the other guy, although that does maybe often/usually happen?

We are qualified for neither. Only Jesus knows the heart and mind of each human being.

well, Who is Jesus, after all? What if i Quoted some vv that insinuate you must needs get qualified? And again, i dont mean “qualified to tell him” something, so much as “qualified to know when you should stop.”

So iow we kinda have (at least) two diff kinds of “judgement” here, maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

OK I agree with you that consensus is not an instrument whereby truth can be measured

how weird is that? We are (basically) required to seek witnesses lest we fall into private interpretation right, but at the same time the…institutional? interpretation is surely off the mark! Ha!

 

[Iconoclast]

Out, in Frying pan, fire.

At least you used some allegorical language.There might be hope for you yet

 

[Iconoclast]

You're a cultist yourself. "Only we Preterists are right, and we are right about everything. The rest of you are wrong about everything".

NEWSFLASH: Not one Christian and no group of Christians is right about everything they believe, either individually or by consensus. Any group which does that have turned themselves into mini-Popes.

I did not realize you were such a prophecy expert.
I doubt you have even looked at the other views much like the mormon elder I described

 

[teamventure]

tell me what is happening literally in rev6

Famine, pestilence, and war are all literal things.
What about the rest of scripture?

 

[Iconoclast]

Famine, pestilence, and war are all literal things.
What about the rest of scripture?

Stars falling from heaven
the sky rolls up like a scroll?
What is all that?

 

[teamventure]

Stars falling from heaven
the sky rolls up like a scroll?
What is all that?

It should be obvious for someone with any sense that those descriptions are explained in a way that the writer could explain and in a way the reader can understand, ya know since these are events that have never happened and are hard to relate to.

 

[Iconoclast]

It should be obvious for someone with any sense that those descriptions are explained in a way that the writer could explain and in a way the reader can understand, ya know since these are events that have never happened and are hard to relate to.

my friend,these events as you say have happened in history
see isa.13
see isa34
now what do you say?
Did stars fall to the earth when those nations were destroyed?
Did the physical heaven disintegrate?

 

[Truth7t7]

my friend,these events as you say have happened in history
see isa.13
see isa34
now what do you say?
Did stars fall to the earth when those nations were destroyed?
Did the physical heaven disintegrate?

The events haven't taken place in history, as your 70AD biased in pre-trism takes hold

"Josephus saith", aka Yosef ben Matityahu the Jewish traitor to his military rank, defecing to the Roman command?Roman Historian, a Propaganist to Rome, Hitlers Joseph Goebbels would smile in jealousy

Big Smiles!