Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That you have to choose to do that everyday necessitates that you have in everyday repented from God and from believing Christ. That’s madness, I would say. Foolish, right?

You only have to choose to do that if that's what you're struggling with. I personally have not had a serious struggle with that in my life's trials. Other believers have. The important point is that you keep believing when confronted with circumstances that cause you to consider turning back from the promises in unbelief. Like the believers in the Hebrews church faced, and which prompted the author of the book of Hebrews to encourage them to keep believing and not turn back from the hope they possessed in Christ.

"... let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the authora and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart." Hebrews 12:1-3​

<<<You only have to choose to do that if that's what you're struggling with. >>>

Nope. If you find yourself to have to make the choice to repent unto God and believe in Jesus Christ, and in the gospel that the apostles preached, every waking day, means any of the following:

1. That that day you stop believing for you to have that choice again. So you need to repent unto God that day, to be saved. Else you will not be saved, at least that day.

2. Or That you really did not truly repent unto God the previous day, for you to have that choice again. So you need to repent unto God today, to be saved. Else you will not be saved, at least that is for today.

I find that as madness and foolishness, at least for me. Perhaps you don’t?

It’s either I am the fool or you are. I guess you’ll say it’s me. And if you do say that, it is me then. And I think, I will be blessed to be that fool until the end of my days.

Tong
R4533

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
No question, it is God’s grace. And that choice is given to a person. How do you suppose that comes to a person, the fallen natural man?

Through the testimony of the Holy Spirit:

6...it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
9We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
1 John 5:6-10
​

Some people believe the testimony of the Holy Spirit and are saved. And some don't believe it and are lost.

Remember what Paul revealed about the natural (fallen) man concerning the things of the Spirit of God? That the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.

What choice do you suppose came to him?

Tong
R4534

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Now we are not talking about freedom to either believe or not, but the choosing to repent unto God and believe in Jesus Christ, and in the gospel that the apostles preached, every waking day. Unless you want to evade and deflect from that to avoid it altogether.

Just because you don't see the choice to believe in God or not as freedom doesn't mean I'm evading.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s good. And I would assume, considering what you believe and teach, that you’ve been given the opportunity to be saved and remain saved, and make the choice each and everyday for 35 years now, right?

Like I say, I don't have to make the choice everyday. I haven't been confronted with the need to make the choice every day. I walk in the choice I've already made. If and when that choice gets challenged, that is when I have to make a conscious decision to stay in Christ.

<<<Like I say, I don't have to make the choice everyday.>>>

Good to hear you say that. I was not aware that you said that anywhere in your past posts. Anyway, that is clear now and it is good to hear.

<<<I haven't been confronted with the need to make the choice every day.>>>

I understand then that, in the days, weeks, months, 35 years, you have been continually in a state of believing, even while you don’t choose to believe everyday. And that is because there is no need for you to choose.

Good. Very good. Really happy to know that.

Tong
R4535

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nope. If you find yourself to have to make the choice to repent unto God and believe in Jesus Christ, and in the gospel that the apostles preached, every waking day, means any of the following:

"Every walking day".
You really need to read my posts more carefully.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Well,….you’d better not stop and keep choosing, while you can.

I sincerely pray that there would not be a day that you would not be able to.

There will never be a day when I lose my freedom to choose unless I go back to unbelief. That is where one loses the freedom to choose to believe:

"...they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie" 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11​

I am not talking about losing freedom to choose. And you know that.

Tong
R4536

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Remember what Paul revealed about the natural (fallen) man concerning the things of the Spirit of God? That the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.

What choice do you suppose came to him?

Tong
R4534

The Spirit reveals the truth. Fallen man then either believes it and retains inside of himself in belief, or he rejects it.
Your doctrine is so complicated. It's the result of over-thinking things.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Well,….you’d better not stop and keep choosing, while you can.

I know you are mocking me, but you should humble yourself because you do not know what tomorrow will bring any more than I do.

"...the one who thinks he is standing firm should be careful not to fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12

"See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:12-14
​

The choice to believe or not to believe that you are so sure you do not have to face anymore could be yours tomorrow. And you are unprepared to face it because you are sure you will never have to. You think the warnings and exhortations of scripture are for someone else.

I am not mocking you at all. I find no good in doing such a thing. I was making a point. That is all there is to that. But if feel offended, I sincerely sorry.

You are right, nobody knows tomorrow. That is exactly why I put my faith in God. For it is only by faith in God that I am assured of things unseen. I rest in God. For I know that if I would rely on me, there is no certainty. God is my keeper. And He is more than very able to keep me and take me home to be with Him, as He had promised.

Tong
R4537

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It is obvious, it is not James who is actually saying a man MUST be justified by works . It’s you and is only your conclusion.

Works-less people are not born again. John and James said that, not me. You're rejecting God's opinion of the matter, not mine. If you reject the words of John and James that I posted you certainly aren't going to listen to mine.

Well, I don’t find James and John saying that. For if I did, I surely will be agreeing with you.

But, let me ask to clarify. If you say “work-less”, perhaps you are meaning to refer to one who had not done a single good work? Had you met one who had not had even a single good work?

Tong
R4538

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I understand then that, in the days, weeks, months, 35 years, you have been continually in a state of believing, even while you don’t choose to believe everyday. And that is because there is no need for you to choose.

I am presently retaining the word of the gospel that I heard 35 years ago. And my works show that to the be the case. Therefore, I am presently saved. I have to continue to retain the word of the gospel I heard to continue to be saved. As long as I am retaining the word it is not hard to be good. Because that is now my natural inclination. Just as it was not hard to be bad when that was my natural inclination before I had a change of nature.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Dead faith is not the faith that comes from God.

That's right. That's why people with dead faith have no faith and are not saved. If you had the gift of faith you'd have the changed/changing life to show for it.

Well they do have faith, only it is of one that is dead. Meaning that the faith they have is one that is not from God.

Tong
R4539

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well, I don’t find James and John saying that.

Which part do you not find...

"6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:6-10​

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<The man with no works to validate the presence of saving faith is not born again.>>>

That would be bad news for the thief on the cross.

He did not sin against the Lord in his suffering like the other thief did. Even in the constraints of their circumstances it's easy to see from how the two thieves acted on their crosses which one was saved and which one was not.

It's funny how so many Christians think the short life of the saved thief on the cross who had only hours to live after believing in Christ and no opportunity to live out his faith in a life of works makes it so Christians don't have to live a life of faithful works either. The lapse of logic and reason there is astounding.

"...as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone..." Galatians 6:10​

<<<It's funny how so many Christians think the short life of the saved thief on the cross who had only hours to live after believing in Christ and no opportunity to live out his faith in a life of works makes it so Christians don't have to live a life of faithful works either. >>>

That would indeed be funny I guess for such Christians.

And you know what are those opportunities? And why those opportunities are there?

For the Christians were created anew by God in Christ Jesus to do good works. Good works which God had prepared in advance for them to do and walk in them.

Tong
R4540

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<That's why the truly saved, born again person must also be justified by works (as James means that) or else he is showing himself to not be born again.>>>

And so you conclude he must.

Which part, specifically, do you not agree with John about here...

"...let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:7-10 ​

With John’s inspired writing? Nothing that I don’t agree with him.

Tong
R4541

 

[Ferris Bueller]

With John’s inspired writing? Nothing that I don’t agree with him.

Tong
R4541

Then you agree that the man who lives in sin is not born again. That's why a (true) Christian must be justified by works, too.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
With your position then, this is how it goes. When one is believing today, he is saved today. But tomorrow is a different day. And if he is not believing tomorrow, he is not saved tomorrow. And the day after tomorrow, if he is believing, he is saved that day. And so on and so forth.

No. Coming back is not allowed. I believe God is merciful and so mitigating circumstances determine exactly when a person is turned over to the unbelief they have chosen to go back to and aren't allowed to come back. Hebrews 6:4-6. So, ultimately, the person who goes back to stubborn, unrepentant unbelief is eventually not allowed to come back.

I am not talking about Hebrews 6:4-6. I was talking about your position.

That if today you are believing, you are saved. Tomorrow if you stop believing, you are not saved on that day. And the following day, if you are believing, you are saved on that day. And that is how it goes the days after.

Tong
R4542

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Now if it happens that he dies in his bed not believing that day, sorry for him, he is not saved.

Unbelieving people do not inherit the kingdom of God. Only believing people do. 1 Corinthians 15:2

I know. But that is not what I am talking about. But how your positions goes from day to day.

Tong
R4543

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Now we are not talking about freedom to either believe or not, but the choosing to repent unto God and believe in Jesus Christ, and in the gospel that the apostles preached, every waking day. Unless you want to evade and deflect from that to avoid it altogether.

Just because you don't see the choice to believe in God or not as freedom doesn't mean I'm evading.

Nope. I am not talking about freedom to believe or not. And you know that. Our exchanges will bear that out.

But it is okay if you want to talk about that instead of what I am talking about. At least I have made my point for all to read.

Tong
R4544

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Nope. If you find yourself to have to make the choice to repent unto God and believe in Jesus Christ, and in the gospel that the apostles preached, every waking day, means any of the following:

"Every walking day".
You really need to read my posts more carefully.

This post apparently have no sense in it. So there is nothing for me to comment on.

Tong
R4545

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Remember what Paul revealed about the natural (fallen) man concerning the things of the Spirit of God? That the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.

What choice do you suppose came to him?

The Spirit reveals the truth. Fallen man then either believes it and retains inside of himself in belief, or he rejects it.
Your doctrine is so complicated. It's the result of over-thinking things.

Apparently you seem to did not read what Paul said there contained in my post.

Tong
R4546