What is Mariology?

[bbyrd009]

unorthodox doctrine forum
Thread “catholic issues”

zing! lol
nice to see that they have made some progress there,
unfortunately “Mariology” still comes up in “new posts” even though i had not previously commented in this thread, see

ask anything and you’re not going to offend me

i have already asked, and will not get an answer, theefaith, nor would i wish to press you for one; you confess to a guy you call “father” in a closet, you pray corporate prayers of supplication out of a closet, and a whole host of other things condemned by the Bible imo, that i am not seeking to change your mind about, ok? But see, you are here to forward your Cult-of-Sol interpretations, yes?

So i tell you again that moving boundary stones can only cause strife and division, even as long as “unorthodox doctrine” still comes up in “new posts,” and i’ll leave you the last word ok. Have a blessed day

 

[bbyrd009]

boundry is bible alone
Go to the catholic thread and explain the
Cult of Sol Invictus please

there are many and better ways to understand the cult of sol invictus, imo, and i would never do that in a “Catholic” thread anyway, as that would imo be equally as disrespectful; any search of “Constantine” should get one there?
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Constantine_the_Great
Constantine was no chump, imo, and it is apparent that Yah even wanted a reconciliation between the cult of sol—not “bad” people at all, just seeking “God” as best they knew how—and the then Nascent “Christianity,” which is (imo) not the standard one should be going for anyway, atleast the way we define it now. just imo.
Sol Invictus | Wikiwand

 

[face2face]

the immaculate conception is how God created Mary in her mothers womb without original sin Lk 1:49
Not the miraculous conception of Jesus in Mary by the Holy Spirit

Hi theefaith,
Maybe you can answer this for me ...Catholics make the statement that Mary never sinned (#13), does the above event preclude Mary from sinning, in other words if you believe she never sinned because of this removal of original sin, did this also removed her ability to sin. Is that the RCC's understanding of Mary? Or, do you believe she could do whatever sin she liked because God gave her a free life?

 

[face2face]

Ummmm.....no! I didn't say anything "for the record".....I asked you two questions!!! Sooooo would you care to answer them!

Mungo answered the questions so all good here:

I have implicitly answered these but since you do not accept that:
I believe it was possible for Mary to sin but she did not sin.
Mary was not infallible so yes, she could be fallible.

 

[face2face]

That is why I asked you "Do you not believe Jesus is God?" If you don't want to answer...that's fine. Let me know and I will move on.....

Thank you.....Mary

This was the question I asked Mungo, what teaching would nullify the RCC's dogmas concerning Mary and he said "that Jesus is not God". How would you cope if this was true? Out of interest what would happen to Catholicism if this ended up being true. That Jesus is not God and Mary is not the Mother of God?

 

[face2face]

You say she cannot sin,

Correction "you said Mary never sinned" there is a difference, which I am still trying to work out. How did the removal of original sin affect Mary's life?

The doctrine of the “Immaculate Conception” teaches that Mary herself was born without sin, that from the very first moment of her existence she was free from the taint of original sin. It holds that while all the rest of mankind are born into an inheritance of original sin, Mary alone, by a special miracle of God, was excepted.

 

[theefaith]

Hi theefaith,
Maybe you can answer this for me ...Catholics make the statement that Mary never sinned (#13), does the above event preclude Mary from sinning, in other words if you believe she never sinned because of this removal of original sin, did this also removed her ability to sin. Is that the RCC's understanding of Mary? Or, do you believe she could do whatever sin she liked because God gave her a free life?

The church teaches that Mary was created without original sin and was sinless, I’m sure she still had free will but chose to love and serve God not sin

happy to help and more questions?

 

[theefaith]

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the glory of God and Christ, co Mary and the saints are what God made them, it is His handiwork (Lk 1:49 Lk 1:28) and the graces they have come from the merits of Christ’s passion and death

Likewise an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the church or rejection of such doctrines is and attack on God and on Christ!
Acts 9:4 Jude 1:3

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[face2face]

The church teaches that Mary was created without original sin and was sinless, I’m sure she still had free will but chose to love and serve God not sin

happy to help and more questions?

But not certain?

 

[Illuminator]

Thanks Illuminator,
While you didn't say emphatically that Mary falsely accused Jesus and made two errors in judgement, at least you were able to speak to Luke 2:41-52 in part. You acknowledge that Mary did not understand the words of Jesus and that is a major step in understanding who Mary actually is.
Mary was exactly likes others who could not discern the Lords wisdom for many times those around Jesus did not understand what he was saying at the time (Luke 9:45; Luke 10:21-24; Luke 18:34) Not sounding like a Mother of God to me....

Jesus is God and Mary is His mother. Why is such a simple statement as that so difficult for you to comprehend??? The only way of the logic is to deny the humanity of Christ, which is a heresy. And you are fond of ignoring my posts. See post #171 of this page (just scroll up)
[/QUOTE]

Just silly games Marymog...if you want to enter the fray do so with Scripture in hand and don't forget to leave Cyril at the door? Post 143 & Post 145 and Luke 2:48-50 - was Mary fallible and capable of sin or infallible and not capable of sin? Which is it?

Please explain, using scripture alone, how a person can be Full of Grace and have a little sin on the side. Here's a clue: ITS IMPOSSIBLE

FULL OF GRACE is a title and a description. A noun and an adjective. Lower your prejudice a notch and pay attention to your own 16th century reformers. Their is no point in quoting them again and again because you, like most radical Protestants, don't have a clue what the reformers taught, and don't care. All the early reformers taught Mary's sinlessness and perpetual virginity. The cover up of their teachings are the result of 200 year old innovations and you are a victim of this cover-up.

Infallibility is a gift from God to the Church that prevents her from teaching error. It has nothing to do with impeccability. Infallibility cannot be applied to one person but to the Church. The Pope is not infallible apart from that. We don't say 'Mary is infallible' because its the wrong description. The wrong word. We say her soul magnifies the Lord. We say "the Lord IS with you." Luke 1.

The reason you don't like the ECF is none of them agree with your presuppositions.
Cyril of Jerusalem
His famous 23 catechetical lectures (in Greek, Katecheseis), which he delivered while still a presbyter in 347 or 348, contain instructions on the principal topics of Christian faith and practice, in a popular rather than scientific manner, full of a warm pastoral love and care for the catechumens to whom they were delivered. Each lecture is based upon a text of Scripture, and there is an abundance of Scriptural quotation throughout. After a general introduction, eighteen lectures follow for the competentes, and the remaining five are addressed to the newly baptized, in preparation for the reception of Holy Communion.

Parallel with the exposition of the creed as it was then received in the church of Jerusalem are vigorous polemics against pagan, Jewish, and heretical errors. They are of great importance for the light which they throw on the method of instruction usual in that age, as well as upon the liturgical practices of the period, of which they give the fullest account extant.

Do you think Cyril of Jerusalem was a Christian?

 

[face2face]

Full of Grace
FULL OF GRACE

So where in the Bible does it say Mary was full of grace?

 

[JohnPaul]

The Church does not worship Mary.
I've asked you to provide evidence but you refused.

I'm 51 years old all the years I went to church, I stopped going at 41, because I couldn't take it anymore, what I was reading in the Bible did not coincide with what I saw was going on in the Catholic Church, I saw it with my own eyes, they even had the effigy of Mary above Jesus Christ, and Pope John Paul II was the biggest worshiper of Mary.

I don't need to provide evidence I've seen it with my own eyes since I was seven and did my communion and then Confirmation, and all of that, the Catholic Church is so full of Idolatry its not funny, the kissing of Saint Anthony's effigy feet on certain festivals, and even the the effigy of Christ we had to kiss the feet of his effigy and the Priest would wipe it with a cloth for the next person, I received the holy Eucharist every Sunday, I did my confessionals to Priests, everything.

I don't need to provide proof I've seen it with my own eyes, and then a decade ago I woke up, and no longer call myself Catholic but simply Christian.
But I've also said in many of my posts that I have no hatred towards Catholics, Protestants, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, or any other denomination, as long as the person believes in Christ as the only begotten son of God Almighty the maker of Heaven and Earth, and that Jesus died for our sins, then they are my brothers and sisters, I'm not here to changes peoples religious beliefs, God gave them the knowledge and wisdom to seek out the truth as I did.

So there is your proof, and that's all I'll say of the matter, please don't quote my posts any more on this subject, you are in dennile.

 

[JohnPaul]

the immaculate conception is how God created Mary in her mothers womb without original sin Lk 1:49
Not the miraculous conception of Jesus in Mary by the Holy Spirit

What book are you reading? The immaculate Conception was that of Mary conceiving Jesus Christ through God without sin.

 

[Mungo]

I'm 51 years old all the years I went to church, I stopped going at 41, because I couldn't take it anymore, what I was reading in the Bible did not coincide with what I saw was going on in the Catholic Church, I saw it with my own eyes, they even had the effigy of Mary above Jesus Christ, and Pope John Paul II was the biggest worshiper of Mary.

I don't need to provide evidence I've seen it with my own eyes since I was seven and did my communion and then Confirmation, and all of that, the Catholic Church is so full of Idolatry its not funny, the kissing of Saint Anthony's effigy feet on certain festivals, and even the the effigy of Christ we had to kiss the feet of his effigy and the Priest would wipe it with a cloth for the next person, I received the holy Eucharist every Sunday, I did my confessionals to Priests, everything.

I don't need to provide proof I've seen it with my own eyes, and then a decade ago I woke up, and no longer call myself Catholic but simply Christian.
But I've also said in many of my posts that I have no hatred towards Catholics, Protestants, Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, or any other denomination, as long as the person believes in Christ as the only begotten son of God Almighty the maker of Heaven and Earth, and that Jesus died for our sins, then they are my brothers and sisters, I'm not here to changes peoples religious beliefs, God gave them the knowledge and wisdom to seek out the truth as I did.

So there is your proof, and that's all I'll say of the matter, please don't quote my posts any more on this subject, you are in dennile.

Another arrogant Protestant that thinks their personal and fallible opinion is all the proof that is needed.
Your total failure to provide any evidence for your claims debunks them.

 

[Mungo]

What book are you reading? The immaculate Conception was that of Mary conceiving Jesus Christ through God without sin.

For someone who claims to have been a Catholic you ignorance is outstanding.

 

[JohnPaul]

For someone who claims to have been a Catholic you ignorance is outstanding.

You have now been put on ignore, you are the one full of ignorance if you cannot see the worship of Mary in the Catholic Church. Good bye now.

 

[theefaith]

But not certain?

I’m certain she was sinless
Gen 3:15
Lk 1:28
Rev 12:1

From Genesis to revelation!

First promise of salvation!

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Total war: enmity

None of satans works are found in Mary, she belongs entirely to God!
Even consecration herself to God at a very young age.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mary is the sign that Jesus is the messiah and divine, only God can have a virgin-mother!

Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

His disciples came to faith cos of Mary

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Mary’s immaculate purity, and the queen of heaven!



Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen 3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
Song of S. 4:2 love of God for Mary!
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5


Mary is created by God thru the immaculate conception worthy to receive grace, and the miraculous conception of the Holy Spirit, and the savior and our salvation!

Notice how Christ died for us!

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We were not worthy to die for our own salvation!

The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Lk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Lk 2:30 I have seen my salvation.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

God will not give grace to one who is not worthy or who cannot receive it, God will not give graces only to be lost or wasted but must be Efficacious!

All graces are merited by Christ (Jn 1:16-17 1 Jn 1:7) and given to men in the immaculate conception, (Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 Heb 4:16 until we are able thru baptism (Jn 3:5) to receive them!

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Mary had this faith for us, (Lk 1:45 )and became the mother of our salvation!
(Lk 2:30)

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Just as redemption is held in Christ so grace is held on Mary! Lk 1:28 full of grace Heb 4:16 the throne of grace Lk 1:30 found favor of our salvation

This applies to Mary not by nature but by the power and will of God!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen!
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And Jesus is the king of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints, so Mary is queen of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints!

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace who is the throne of divine grace!

 

[theefaith]

Mary is our spiritual mother

Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.









Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.



Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?

Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!

No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

 

[theefaith]

What book are you reading? The immaculate Conception was that of Mary conceiving Jesus Christ through God without sin.

a common misconception

the conception of Christ by the Holy Spirit in Mary is called the miraculous conception of Christ!

the immaculate conception is Mary being conceived in her mothers womb, created by God without original sin in virtue of the future merits of Christ!

Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope Pius IX - 1854

“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”

 

[Mungo]

You have now been put on ignore, you are the one full of ignorance if you cannot see the worship of Mary in the Catholic Church. Good bye now.

Au revoir