Sin & Death

[Duckybill]

and the difference is?

see Rom 3:24,25

Those who were saved under the Law of Moses were saved and forgiven because they obeyed God and made sacrifices to Him. The animal blood made atonement for them. They were "forgiven". Jesus' Blood took away their sins and the sins of Christians.

Romans 3:24-25 (NKJV)
[sup]24 [/sup]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [sup]25 [/sup]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

 

[Alethos]

Those who were saved under the Law of Moses were saved and forgiven because they obeyed God and made sacrifices to Him. The animal blood made atonement for them. They were "forgiven". Jesus' Blood took away their sins and the sins of Christians.

Romans 3:24-25 (NKJV)
[sup]24 [/sup]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [sup]25 [/sup]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

So you believe the blood of bulls and goats provided them with forgiveness? (means sins removed) under the law?

Col 1:14

The answer is there Ducky

How was God able to pass over the sins previously committed? Or maybe a better way is to say "on what basis was God able to pass over thier sins?

I agree their sins were forgiven/removed of them...but how "Bulls and Goats" or something else?

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

So you believe the blood of bulls and goats provided them with forgiveness?

Absolutely!

(means sins removed) under the law?

Nope. Didn't you just read Rom 3? Their sins were "passed over".

Col 1:14

The answer is there Ducky

How was God able to pass over the sins previously committed? Or maybe a better way is to say "on what basis was God able to pass over thier sins?

I agree their sins were forgiven/removed of them...but how "Bulls and Goats" or something else?

Those who obeyed God under THE LAW of Moses were as saved as any Christian is now.

 

[Alethos]

How did we benefit from the atonement?

All our energies need now be placed upon the character and person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

How was God’s righteousness declared in him?

And in what way was it declared in a perfect man?

Today many Christians know Jesus as the Son of God but he was much more than this. If he were only the Son of God the Atonement would not have been made possible. He had to be the Son of man through birth of a woman.

Jesus has been called the second or last Adam, however he is nowhere called a new Adam, he was not made fresh from the ground as Adam was. But he was not of angelic nature; he was not in any physical sense apart from us. Born of woman, born of our stock, he is introduced to notice in the very first verse in the apostolic writings, as "the son of David, and the son of Abraham".

As Paul says, "the seed of David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3), or as in Heb. 2:14, partaker of the same flesh and blood, that through death he might , destroy, neutralise, that which is destroying us all (the devil i.e sin).

To gain a better understanding of this triumph over death we need to go back to the Garden, to Adam and his condemnation to death. A change took place in Adam which took him from “good” to death. He became a death stricken man whereas before he was not subject to death in any way.

"By one man sin entered into the world and death by sin."

"By man came death."

"Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Although you will see from the text death would not be instant "Thou shalt"....

The wisdom on God placing upon Adam a slow death was clearly for the benefit of Phil 2:12,13 which is to us a probation period that God may bring good out of evil, and God may from 2 sinners bring many sons to glory, a family of holy children who reflect His Glory.

However a law was placed in their members (bodies). God placed him under a sentence making him a mortal man with corrupting body.

Adam and Eve would have children and they would also be mortal

Question: Could a mortal give birth to an immortal?

Mortal means death. Its a Latin word to mean death "mors" in plain English it means "deathful".

Why deathful?

The royal law “the wages of sin is death” Rom 6:23

Adam & Eve sinned = There wages were death.

Next we see God decided to act...

 

[Duckybill]

How did we benefit from the atonement?

All our energies need now be placed upon the character and person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

How was God’s righteousness declared in him?

And in what way was it declared in a perfect man?

Today many Christians know Jesus as the Son of God but he was much more than this. If he were only the Son of God the Atonement would not have been made possible. He had to be the Son of man through birth of a woman.

Jesus has been called the second or last Adam, however he is nowhere called a new Adam, he was not made fresh from the ground as Adam was. But he was not of angelic nature; he was not in any physical sense apart from us. Born of woman, born of our stock, he is introduced to notice in the very first verse in the apostolic writings, as "the son of David, and the son of Abraham".

As Paul says, "the seed of David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3), or as in Heb. 2:14, partaker of the same flesh and blood, that through death he might , destroy, neutralise, that which is destroying us all (the devil i.e sin).

To gain a better understanding of this triumph over death we need to go back to the Garden, to Adam and his condemnation to death. A change took place in Adam which took him from “good” to death. He became a death stricken man whereas before he was not subject to death in any way.

"By one man sin entered into the world and death by sin."

"By man came death."

"Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Although you will see from the text death would not be instant "Thou shalt"....

The wisdom on God placing upon Adam a slow death was clearly for the benefit of Phil 2:12,13 which is to us a probation period that God may bring good out of evil, and God may from 2 sinners bring many sons to glory, a family of holy children who reflect His Glory.

However a law was placed in their members (bodies). God placed him under a sentence making him a mortal man with corrupting body.

Adam and Eve would have children and they would also be mortal

Question: Could a mortal give birth to an immortal?

Mortal means death. Its a Latin word to mean death "mors" in plain English it means "deathful".

Why deathful?

The royal law “the wages of sin is death” Rom 6:23

Adam & Eve sinned = There wages were death.

Next we see God decided to act...

I am tiring of reading your constant blasphemies and doctrines of demons.

 

[Alethos]

I am tiring of reading your constant blasphemies and doctrines of demons.

When you cannot respond with truth the next step is anger to manifest. This was also seen in the Pharisees Matt 9:11,12,13; The Pharisees were "indignant"...

I am expecting at some stage you will fly into a rage and then you will truly manifest that you are not of God, and your teaching to be false.

If we were having this discussion a couple of hundred years ago, you would have burned me at the stake!

At least you have read truth and for that you are made responsible to it.

How you respond is your choice.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

When you cannot respond with truth the next step of for anger to manifest. This was also seen in the Pharisees Matt 9:11; I am expecting at some stage you will fly into a rage and then you will truly manifest that you are not of God, and your teaching to be false.

If we were having this discussion a couple of hundred years ago, you would have burned me at the stake!

At least you have

read truth and for that you are made responsible to it.

How you respond is your choice.

Yes, I have read the Truth, but not from you. I suspect that you have been heavily influenced by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Alethos]

Yes, I have read the Truth, but not from you. I suspect that have been heavily influenced by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The pharisees also tried to work out his denomination...Matt 13:54

Any other insults Ducky?

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

The pharisees also tried to work out his denomination...Matt 13:54

Any other insults Ducky?

If you call those insults just wait till you meet Jesus.

Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
[sup]41 [/sup]“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

[Alethos]

God’s response was very simple and easily reasoned...

The great facts of God are simple; we must "receive them as little children".

"By one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death hath passed upon all men for that all have sinned."

How would God reverse/remove the condemnation of death?

There are three ways God could have dealt with His creation:

1. He could have exterminated the whole human race and started again? But this would not uphold Gods character as loving, full of mercy and goodness. This would be a failure and He does not know failure Isaiah 55:11. God has said that He has not made the earth in vain: that He formed it to be inhabited by the righteous; and that as truly as He lives, it will be wholly filled with His glory.

2. Could God tolerate sin? To allow mankind to perpetually fulfil the lusts of the flesh 1 John 2:16. Mankind to live in absolute misery under sin and death to have no opportunity of life?

3. The third way chosen is to enforce the law against sin, while at the same time allow an opening for mercy, repentance and obedient sinners. It is here that we see the inner workings of God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. As we shall see Gods righteousness is revealed in the birth, death, and resurrection of Christ “The Son of Man”.

It is true sad but true fact that Jesus was born, that he might die.

Sin had to be condemned in its own flesh, before a foundation could be laid which was of goodness and moral perfection.

In Jesus sin was condemned and as such in his resurrection to life Jesus became a mediator between God and man. 1 Tim 2:5 Jesus becomes the one who can forgive sins and judges who shall receive such great gifts as eternal life.

Jesus was a sacrificial victim who is a perfectly righteous man, one who partook of the nature that he might put to death sin and remove condemnation. One who should did no sin himself, but God "made sin" 2 Cor 5:21 and being treated as sin for us; who should be just and holy, obedient in all things, while yet "numbered with the transgressors and making his grave with the wicked".

As the soldier standing at the cross said in Matt 27:54.

The lamb of God who takes away the "sin" of the world.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

God’s response was very simple and easily reasoned...

The great facts of God are simple; we must "receive them as little children".

"By one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death hath passed upon all men for that all have sinned."

How would God reverse/remove the condemnation of death?

There are three ways God could have dealt with His creation:

1. He could have exterminated the whole human race and started again? But this would not uphold Gods character as loving, full of mercy and goodness. This would be a failure and He does not know failure Isaiah 55:11. God has said that He has not made the earth in vain: that He formed it to be inhabited by the righteous; and that as truly as He lives, it will be wholly filled with His glory.

2. Could God tolerate sin? To allow mankind to perpetually fulfil the lusts of the flesh 1 John 2:16. Mankind to live in absolute misery under sin and death to have no opportunity of life?

3. The third way chosen is to enforce the law against sin, while at the same time allow an opening for mercy, repentance and obedient sinners. It is here that we see the inner workings of God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. As we shall see Gods righteousness is revealed in the birth, death, and resurrection of Christ “The Son of Man”.

It is true sad but true fact that Jesus was born, that he might die.

Sin had to be condemned in its own flesh, before a foundation could be laid which was of goodness and moral perfection.

In Jesus sin was condemned and as such in his resurrection to life Jesus became a mediator between God and man. 1 Tim 2:5 Jesus becomes the one who can forgive sins and judges who shall receive such great gifts as eternal life.

Jesus was a sacrificial victim who is a perfectly righteous man, one who partook of the nature that he might put to death sin and remove condemnation. One who should did no sin himself, but God "made sin" 2 Cor 5:21 and being treated as sin for us; who should be just and holy, obedient in all things, while yet "numbered with the transgressors and making his grave with the wicked".

As the soldier standing at the cross said in Matt 27:54.

The lamb of God who takes away the "sin" of the world.

JW? Mormon? SDA?

 

[Alethos]

JW? Mormon? SDA?

Just in case you run out 38, 000 Christian Religions amazing isnt it Ducky Eph 4:5...so many religions who is right? at the end the Bible stands by itself, as the sole authority..the Bible...and not man made doctrines formed in some policital council in AD325. http://www.creeds.ne...ient/nicene.htm which gave no Bible Quotes just man made woffle!

And this Ducky is what YOU believe!

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

Just in case you run out 38, 000 Christian Religions amazing isnt it Ducky Eph 4:5...so many religions who is right?

Wrong as usual. There's only one Christian religion and it ain't yours.

John 1 The Word was with God ... The Word was God ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Alethos]

Wrong as usual. There's only one Christian religion and it ain't yours.
John 1 The Word was with God ... The Word was God ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Jesus was a man Act 2:22 and 1 Ti 2:5 Rom 8:3 also your favourite verse Heb 2:14 who spoke God's words John 8:28, 7:16). We all know this Ducky!

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus was a man Act 2:22 and 1 Ti 2:5 Rom 8:3 also your favourite verse Heb 2:14 who spoke God's words John 8:28, 7:16). We all know this Ducky!

Yes, we all know that Jesus became a man. But some of us know He is also God.

John knew.

Jn 1 The Word was with God... The Word was God ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Thomas knew.

John 20:28-29 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Peter knew.

John 21:17 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

Paul knew.Colossians 1:16 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

 

[Alethos]

Yes, we all know that Jesus became a man. But some of us know He is also God.

John knew.

Jn 1 The Word was with God... The Word was God ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Thomas knew.

John 20:28-29 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Peter knew.

John 21:17 (ESV)
[sup]17 [/sup]He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

Paul knew.Colossians 1:16 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Num 23:19 Yes as you say Jesus became a man BUT God is not a man.

 

[Duckybill]

Num 23:19 Yes as you say Jesus became a man BUT God is not a man.

Haven't you heard? Jesus became a flesh and Blood man.

Exodus 33:11 (ESV)
[sup]11 [/sup]Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.

Did you forget that you admitted that this is God?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]"And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: [sup]19 [/sup]I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. [sup]20 [/sup]Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. [sup]21 [/sup]And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. [sup]22 [/sup]Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. [sup]23 [/sup]I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

 

[Alethos]

<P> </P>

 

[Duckybill]

<P>error </P>

Are you now going to lie and say you didn't say this is God? I'll gladly show you where you said it.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

 

[Alethos]

Are you now going to lie and say you didn't say this is God? I'll gladly show you where you said it.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

Numbers 23:19 Heb 2:14 Rom 8:3 Gal 4:4 2 Cor 5:21 Num 21:9 John 3:13-15 Psa 22