Christians are not under the New Covenant

[theefaith]

Surely it saves in the way Peter means that it saves (like any other obedience to God's commands does). What it does NOT do is impute righteousness to a person. If it did, it would be by works, and grace would no longer be grace.

Righteousness is imputed to a person by faith apart from works. The Catholics have a list of things that you must do in addition to believing in God to have righteousness imputed to you. Abraham did NOTHING to have righteousness imputed to him. Paul says he is the example for how we also will have righteousness imputed to us through faith apart from works.

dogma catholic and divine faith revealed by Christ

109. There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will.
110. There is a supernatural influence of God in the faculties of the soul which coincides in time with man’s free act of will.
111. For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary.
112. Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation.
113. Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification.
114. The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins,
without the special privilege of the grace of God.
115. Even in the fallen state, man can, by his natural intellectual power, know religious and moral
truths.
116. For the performance of a morally good action Sanctifying Grace is not required.
117. In the state of fallen nature it is morally impossible for man without Supernatural Revelation,
to know easily, with absolute certainty and without admixture of error, all religious and
moral truths of the natural order.
118. Grace cannot be merited by natural works either de condigno or de congruo.
119. God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the
observation of the Divine Commandments.
120. God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness.
121. God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen
sins, to eternal rejection.
122. The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not
irresistible.
123. There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious (gratia vere et mere
sufficiens).
124. The sinner can and must prepare himself by the help of actual grace for the reception of the
grace by which he is justified.
125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.
126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.
127. Sanctifying grace sanctifies the soul.
128. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a friend of God.
129. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to the inheritance
of Heaven.
130. The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with
Sanctifying grace.
131. Without special Divine Revelation no one can know with the certainty of faith, if he be in the
state of grace.
132. The degree of justifying grace is not identical in all the just.
133. Grace can be increased by good works.
134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal,
serious] sin.
135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from
God.
136. A just man merits for himself through each good work an increase of sanctifying grace,
eternal life (if he dies in a state of grace) and an increase of heavenly glory.

 

[theefaith]

Surely it saves in the way Peter means that it saves (like any other obedience to God's commands does). What it does NOT do is impute righteousness to a person. If it did, it would be by works, and grace would no longer be grace.

Righteousness is imputed to a person by faith apart from works. The Catholics have a list of things that you must do in addition to believing in God to have righteousness imputed to you. Abraham did NOTHING to have righteousness imputed to him. Paul says he is the example for how we also will have righteousness imputed to us through faith apart from works.

what verse
My Bible gateway KJV had no results for faith apart from works and apart from works

rev 2:2 I know thy faith alone?
Or I know thy works

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If anyone says you can be justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!
Holy apostolic council of Trent!

The council of Trent was WRONG!
You can't be saved when Jesus comes back by faith that has no works, but you are in fact justified (made righteous) by faith apart from works. Abraham is the example Paul uses to prove that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

rev 2:2 I know thy faith alone?
Or I know thy works

You're still not able to see the difference between James' faith alone argument and Paul's righteousness apart from works argument. That is your fundamental stumbling block. That's why you're not getting this.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

Do you know the difference between being justified and being saved?
Justification (being made righteous) is by faith all by itself apart from works.
The faith that produces no works (a.k.a. faith that is alone) is not the faith that will save your from the wrath of God.

 

[theefaith]

Surely it saves in the way Peter means that it saves (like any other obedience to God's commands does). What it does NOT do is impute righteousness to a person. If it did, it would be by works, and grace would no longer be grace.

Righteousness is imputed to a person by faith apart from works. The Catholics have a list of things that you must do in addition to believing in God to have righteousness imputed to you. Abraham did NOTHING to have righteousness imputed to him. Paul says he is the example for how we also will have righteousness imputed to us through faith apart from works.

then faith is also works
You must choose (volition) to believe

 

[theefaith]

You're still not able to see the difference between James' faith alone argument and Paul's righteousness apart from works argument. That is your fundamental stumbling block. That's why you're not getting this.

It’s apart from works cos it refers to the redemption accomplished by Christ and we receive by faith and the sacraments

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s apart from works cos it refers to the redemption accomplished by Christ and we receive by faith and the sacraments

If the sacraments impute righteousness than justification is by works. Abraham performed no sacrament to be made righteous. Paul says he is our example of how we also are made righteous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

then faith is also works

Paul contrasts faith with works...

"...to the one who does not work, but believes..." Romans 4:5​

'Believing' is separate and distinct from 'working'.
'Believing' makes one righteous.
Working does not.

 

[Curtis]

Christ replaced david as king
Lk 1:32-33
The new covenant church replaced Israel matt 21:43 matt 16:18-19

Replacement theology is completely bogus, as a careful reading of all of Romans 11 makes ridiculously clear.

The new covenant is still with the House of Israel and gentile believers are grafted as wild Olive branches, onto Israel’s Olive tree by faith, which is the only way we enter into their new covenant.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

what verse
My Bible gateway KJV had no results for faith apart from works and apart from works

These verses...

"...to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:" Romans 4:5-6​

The KJV says "without works"...

"5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" Romans 4:5-6​

Righteousness is imputed to a person through faith without works. But the Catholic priesthood says righteousness is imputed to a person through faith and works.

rev 2:2 I know thy faith alone?
Or I know thy works

Of course it doesn't say 'I know they faith that is alone'. Our faith is known by our works. Works show whether or not we have faith: "...I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18. That's why God looks at our works. But that hardly means those works make you righteous. It doesn't mean that at all.

Works aren't required because they make you righteous (works can't do that). Works are required because they show that you believe and are made righteous by faith apart from your works. That's the very point you're not getting. And you're not getting it because you were taught by the Catholic priesthood that works do make you righteous. I know that knot is going to be pretty hard for you to untie. But just go with what the Bible says, not what Catholic priests say.

 

[Curtis]

Paul contrasts faith with works...

"...to the one who does not work, but believes..." Romans 4:5​

'Believing' is separate and distinct from 'working'.
'Believing' makes one righteous.
Working does not.

Paul: Abraham was justified apart from works.

James: Abraham was justified by works, as are all men.

Christians quote Ephesians 2:8-9 about being saved apart from works, without having a clue what works Paul’s talking about, then assume any condition or requirement of a believer is a work, then declare confidently that absolutely nothing is required of us after salvation.

There was a serious controversy in Paul’s day, because many of the Jewish Christians claimed that gentile believers were still required to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

It got bad enough that all the apostles and church leaders met in Acts 15 to decide what should be done about the problem.

Act 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Act 15:6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.

They decided gentile believers were not under the law of Moses, and Peter called the law of Moses a yoke of burden:

Act 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,

Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

In Paul’s writings - since he is the apostle TO the gentiles (Galatians 5:8)- he emphasizes continually that gentile believers are saved apart from works of the law of Moses.

Therefore, every time Paul mentions: law; the law; works of the law; works; or works of righteousness* - he is always referring to the works of the law of Moses, as the context of each passage shows.
( * Deuteronomy 6:25 keeping the works of the law of Moses was their righteousness)

Therefore we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law of Moses, which is made up of 613 statutes, commands, and ordinances that all have to be kept - and per Ephesians 2:8-9; we are saved by grace, through faith, and NOT by works of the law of Moses.

We don’t have to sacrifice animals, keep feast days, kosher diets, burnt offerings, or any of the works of the law of Moses.

But there are works other than the works of the law of Moses - and the book of James is about works of believers that are for their justification.

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?


Jas 2:15 If a brotherly sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,


Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?


Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.


Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!


Jas 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?


Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?


Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;


Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.


Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone

Abraham believed God but was not justified until he obeyed God and offered up Isaac on the altar, says James, and said those works perfected his faith.

Maranatha

 

[Ferris Bueller]

125. The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith.
126. Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present.

...But not for justification.
That happens by faith without works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

133. Grace can be increased by good works.

...But not the grace of justification (being made righteous).
A man is justified (made righteous) by faith "without works" - Romans 4:6.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

134. The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous [mortal,
serious] sin.

I agree that a declaration of righteousness can be lost, but that's not the point of our discussion, so let's not cloud things up with that issue.

Catholics continually lose the imputation of God's righteousness, when they sin. And so they are caught in this continual never ending cycle of being re-justified, over and over again through ritual works. But Hebrews 10:14 makes it clear that justification is a one-time for all-time declaration, and that the necessity for continually being justified (made righteous) is brought to an end in Christ (Hebrews 10:11-12). You are made righteous one-time for all-time the moment you believe. Sinning doesn't cause you to revert back to your unconverted state. Only a return to unbelief can do that. Because the imputation of God's righteousness (justification) is not based on works. It is based on your faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

135. By his good works the justified man really acquires a claim to supernatural reward from
God.

...Yes, but just not the reward of justification. For one, he already has justification. And, two, justification (being made righteous) is not acquired by works. It is acquired by faith without works (Romans 4:6). So works do not acquire a claim to supernatural reward of justification. Only faith without works does that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

Yes, but it won't justify you. Faith all by itself without works does that. Paul proved that by using the example of Abraham.

 

[n2thelight]

Christians sometimes ask “Do the 10 commandments apply to us, or were they just for the Israelites?” The answer is no they do not apply to us, and yes they do!

Christians are Israelites

 

[keithr]

If anyone says you can be justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!
Holy apostolic council of Trent!

These are some relevant verses on the subject (WEB):

Justified by faith:
Romans 3:28)

We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.​

Romans 3:20)

20) Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
​

Romans 5:1)

Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;​

Galatians 2:16)

yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law.​

Galatians 3:11)

Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, “The righteous will live by faith.”​

Galatians 3:24)

So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.​

James comment on works:
Jamess 2:21-24
21) Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22) You see that faith worked with his works, and by works faith was perfected;
23) and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness;” and he was called the friend of God.
24) You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.

Paul's teaching about Abraham's faith:
Romans 4:1-25
1) What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh?
2) For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward God.
3) For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4) Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed.
5) But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works,
7) “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin.”
9) Is this blessing then pronounced on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
10) How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11) He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they might be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might also be accounted to them.
12) He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision.
13) For the promise to Abraham and to his offspring that he should be heir of the world wasn’t through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14) For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of no effect.
15) For the law produces wrath, for where there is no law, neither is there disobedience.
16) For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the offspring, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.
17) As it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations.” This is in the presence of him whom he believed: God, who gives life to the dead, and calls the things that are not, as though they were.
18) Besides hope, Abraham in hope believed, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, “So will your offspring be.”
19) Without being weakened in faith, he didn’t consider his own body, already having been worn out, (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb.
20) Yet, looking to the promise of God, he didn’t waver through unbelief, but grew strong through faith, giving glory to God,
21) and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was also able to perform.
22) Therefore it also was “credited to him for righteousness.”
23) Now it was not written that it was accounted to him for his sake alone,
24) but for our sake also, to whom it will be accounted, who believe in him who raised Jesus, our Lord, from the dead,
25) who was delivered up for our trespasses, and was raised for our justification.

 

[theefaith]

If the sacraments impute righteousness than justification is by works. Abraham performed no sacrament to be made righteous. Paul says he is our example of how we also are made righteous.

no it is by God’s power

ez 36:25-37 I (God) shall sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved

acts 8:36-38

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Btw if the apostles taught faith apart from works how did the eunuch know about baptism?