Christians are not under the New Covenant

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theefaith

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Imputed righteousness faith apart from works or faith alone is not real righteousness not really righteous only declared righteous you make God guilty of a lie

  1. Romans 6:22
    But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    freed from sin by baptism acts 22:16

    1 Corinthians 6:11
    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    BAPTISM
 

Truman

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Replacement theology is completely bogus, as a careful reading of all of Romans 11 makes ridiculously clear.

The new covenant is still with the House of Israel and gentile believers are grafted as wild Olive branches, onto Israel’s Olive tree by faith, which is the only way we enter into their new covenant.
As an English/Canadian Christian, anointed and commissioned by the Lord to lead worship, I was surprised when He told me that I was a Levite. 25 years later, it seems that everyone but the Jews call me a Jew. Except for me. I call myself a Joe...for now! Ez. 37
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE="Ferris Bueller, post: 1147292, member: 915

faith and baptism

Member of the new covenant church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Put on Christ

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Risen with Christ

Col2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 

Ferris Bueller

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yes it does if so n is removed
Ez 36:25-27 “white as snow”
Acts 22:16 “wash away sin”
Then you say Paul was wrong when he said we are made righteous just like Abraham was, by faith apart from works.
But you'll say water baptism is not a work. Okay, then tell us why Abraham did not have to be water baptized to be justified. You can't say it wasn't required then, but is now, because Paul said we are justified the exact same way Abraham was justified. Paul says no change of the way a person is justified has occurred from the time Abraham was justified until now. Are you going to try to say it has changed?
 
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theefaith

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Then you say Paul was wrong when he said we are made righteous just like Abraham was, by faith apart from works.
But you'll say water baptism is not a work. Okay, then tell us why Abraham did not have to be water baptized to be justified. You can't say it wasn't required then, but is now, because Paul said we are justified the exact same way Abraham was justified. Paul says no change of the way a person is justified has occurred from the time Abraham was justified until now. Are you going to try to say it has changed?

apart from works of the law

Paul never said apart from sacraments!
 

theefaith

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How can sun be washed away and not be justified
Or put on Christ and not be justified
Or be buried with Christ and raised with being justified?
 

theefaith

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And you still reject Christ by rejecting the teaching of the church with his authority without any possible error???
 

Curtis

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These are some relevant verses on the subject (WEB):

Justified by faith:
Romans 3:28)
We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.​
Romans 3:20)
20) Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 5:1)
Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;​
Galatians 2:16)
yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law.​
Galatians 3:11)
Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, “The righteous will live by faith.”​
Galatians 3:24)
So that the law has become our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.​

James comment on works:
Jamess 2:21-24
21) Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22) You see that faith worked with his works, and by works faith was perfected;
23) and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness;” and he was called the friend of God.
24) You see then that by works, a man is justified, and not only by faith.

Paul's teaching about Abraham's faith:
Romans 4:1-25
1) What then will we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh?
2) For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not toward God.
3) For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4) Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed.
5) But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also pronounces blessing on the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works,
7) “Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man whom the Lord will by no means charge with sin.”
9) Is this blessing then pronounced on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.
10) How then was it counted? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11) He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they might be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might also be accounted to them.
12) He is the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had in uncircumcision.
13) For the promise to Abraham and to his offspring that he should be heir of the world wasn’t through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14) For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of no effect.
15) For the law produces wrath, for where there is no law, neither is there disobedience.
16) For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure to all the offspring, not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.
17) As it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations.” This is in the presence of him whom he believed: God, who gives life to the dead, and calls the things that are not, as though they were.
18) Besides hope, Abraham in hope believed, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, “So will your offspring be.”
19) Without being weakened in faith, he didn’t consider his own body, already having been worn out, (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb.
20) Yet, looking to the promise of God, he didn’t waver through unbelief, but grew strong through faith, giving glory to God,
21) and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was also able to perform.
22) Therefore it also was “credited to him for righteousness.”
23) Now it was not written that it was accounted to him for his sake alone,
24) but for our sake also, to whom it will be accounted, who believe in him who raised Jesus, our Lord, from the dead,
25) who was delivered up for our trespasses, and was raised for our justification.
And you still reject Christ by rejecting the teaching of the church with his authority without any possible error???

The Roman sect is utterly and completely corrupted in doctrines, promotes Maryolatry and claims the outright lie from their historical revisionism, that Peter, the apostle to the Jews, became pope of the gentile Roman Catholic Church.

Since I’ve proven before on threads you’ve read, that Jesus didn’t build His church on Peter, that Peter had no primacy among the apostles, and that other historical sources such as the equally Ancient Greek Orthodox Church state that Linus was the first bishop of Rome, not the second, because Peter was never a pope - then you’re promoting non existent authority from the corrupt Roman sect and Christians have no reason to have anything to do with it.
 

theefaith

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The Roman sect is utterly and completely corrupted in doctrines, promotes Maryolatry and claims the outright lie from their historical revisionism, that Peter, the apostle to the Jews, became pope of the gentile Roman Catholic Church.

Since I’ve proven before on threads you’ve read, that Jesus didn’t build His church on Peter, that Peter had no primacy among the apostles, and that other historical sources such as the equally Ancient Greek Orthodox Church state that Linus was the first bishop of Rome, not the second, because Peter was never a pope - then you’re promoting non existent authority from the corrupt Roman sect and Christians have no reason to have anything to do with it.

Curtis has spoken!

what pride presumption and arrogance

you have shown and proved nothing

you deny the words of Christ faith and baptism Mk 16:16

peter is the one chosen to be the personal representative of Christ
Vicar of christ is about Christ not peter
Christ continues his ministry mission power and authority thru Peter and the apostles


Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Vs 18 Christ has “ALL” authority!

Vs 19 Christ endows His apostles with His authority!
Christ sends His apostles to teach “all”!
Christ commands the apostles to baptize those who accept!

Vs 20 Christ commands the apostles to teach the baptized to observe all He has commanded the apostles!

God establishes His authority in men and we must obey them!

God always establishes peace and order in obedience to hierarchical authority of men!

“I DO NOT LISTEN TO MEN”!
“Tradition of men”!

Anti-biblical!
Totally impossible!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
 

theefaith

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Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as mediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors


Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
 

theefaith

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Biblical Mary, mother of God, ever Virgin, sinless, mother of our salvation!

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Spiritual Mother Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17
 

theefaith

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Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us they Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

Salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mother of Christ Matt 1:16
Mother of the word Jn 1:1
Mother of our savior Matt 1:21
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Our mother Jn 19:26-27

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

All graces come from the merits of Christ, from His passion and death and come thru Mary to the glory of Her only begotten Son!





From Genesis to revelation!

First promise of salvation!

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Total war: enmity

None of satans works are found in Mary, she belongs entirely to God!
Even consecration herself to God at a very young age.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mary is the sign that Jesus is the messiah and divine, only God can have a virgin-mother!

Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

His disciples came to faith cos of Mary

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Mary’s immaculate purity, and the queen of heaven!
 

theefaith

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You can never praise Mary as her exulted dignity requires

Lk 1:49 Mary is Hod’s masterpiece
 

rockytopva

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You can never praise Mary as her exulted dignity requires

Lk 1:49 Mary is Hod’s masterpiece
The whole scripture in context… In which Mary returns glory to God…

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.
56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house. - Luke 1

Very much like a Psalm of David in which glory is returned to God.
 

Ferris Bueller

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And you must continue believing until death
I agree.
That is the perseverance of faith—Hebrews 6:12

Jn 3:16 believes present tense not a one time thing
The believing is not the one time thing. The justification you received the moment you began to believe is the one time thing—Hebrews 10:14.
 

Ferris Bueller

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never said works make you righteous but grace enables both faith and works to be meritorious and efficacious James 5:16
Meritorious and efficacious towards what exactly?
The crux of our disagreement here is that you have been saying faith and works are meritorious and efficacious towards justification (being made righteous in God's sight). Paul says only faith is meritorious and efficacious towards that. He uses Abraham, who did no work, either in faith or not in faith, to be justified, to prove that truth. All he 'did' was believe God. And it was credited to him as righteousness.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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then repentance is meaningless

  1. 1 Corinthians 6:9
    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Galatians 5:21
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.
No, repentance is not meaningless.
It's just not useful for being made righteous.