I have a question that remains unanswered:

[theefaith]

We are.
So why is Mary 'alone' the queen of king Jesus?
Using your view of this subject, I don't believe the mother of a King would ever be queen over and above and in place of the King's wife.
Your Mary 'alone' doctrine is not logical.

the mother of the king is always queen

and cos she fulfills the Esther type
mans cos rev 12:1

Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen 3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
Song of S. 4:2 love of God for Mary!
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5


Mary is created by God thru the immaculate conception worthy to receive grace, and the miraculous conception of the Holy Spirit, and the savior and our salvation!

Notice how Christ died for us!

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We were not worthy to die for our own salvation!

The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Lk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Lk 2:30 I have seen my salvation.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

God will not give grace to one who is not worthy or who cannot receive it, God will not give graces only to be lost or wasted but must be Efficacious!

All graces are merited by Christ (Jn 1:16-17 1 Jn 1:7) and given to men in the immaculate conception, (Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 Heb 4:16 until we are able thru baptism (Jn 3:5) to receive them!

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Mary had this faith for us, (Lk 1:45 )and became the mother of our salvation!
(Lk 2:30)

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Just as redemption is held in Christ so grace is held on Mary! Lk 1:28 full of grace Heb 4:16 the throne of grace Lk 1:30 found favor of our salvation

This applies to Mary not by nature but by the power and will of God!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen!
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And Jesus is the king of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints, so Mary is queen of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints!

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace who is the throne of divine grace!











so Mary too is the fruit of the merits, virtues, & graces provided by Christ! Lk 1:47 Mary also saved by God



2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands

Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.
Crown of stars = queen Mary

 

[BarneyFife]

I believe that Jesus is considered the Lord God Almighty after resurrection. Before this He was the Word of God: Logos of God ~ The Word came down was was encased in a body of flesh. Was named Jesus. Also Immanuel meaning God with us. So back then; the Word of God ~ Also the Holy Spirit of God was with-in the Word of God when baptism happened in the Jordan River.

How do you view this in light of the following:

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

 

[theefaith]

How do you view this in light of the following:

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Right pal!

 

[Wrangler]

How do you view this in light of the following:

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Yesterday and forever more is not the same thing as before yesterday. I believe Hebrews 13:8 in that after Jesus was resurrected into a glorified body, there will be no change. However, Jesus obviously changed throughout his life. Death is certainly a change, not the same.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yesterday and forever more is not the same thing as before yesterday.

Hi, Wrangler.
What is your logical/hermeneutical basis for this declaration? I really think it is the same thing. I don't see any reason not to take the text just as it apparently reads--past, present, future. If "yesterday" doesn't mean eternity past, what does it mean? An ultra-literal understanding of "yesterday" means one day before today. Do you think that is what is being expressed? If not, how do we determine what "yesterday" means? The Greek suggests: "Of uncertain derivation; 'yesterday'; by extension, in time past or hitherto." The word is only used 3 times in the entire New Testament, in which no distinct meaning is established in contextual consideration.

Hebrews 13:8 seems to suggest that in some way(s) Christ has never and will never change.

So how do we determine what the way(s) is/are?

 

[BarneyFife]

I believe Hebrews 13:8 in that after Jesus was resurrected into a glorified body, there will be no change. However, Jesus obviously changed throughout his life. Death is certainly a change, not the same.

But aren't you using human logic to override the text?

 

[Wrangler]

But aren't you using human logic to override the text?

No. There is only logic. When the text says from today until the last, it does not mean before today. For doctrinal reasons, you are reading into the text to begin before yesterday.

 

[Wrangler]

What is your logical/hermeneutical basis for this declaration? I really think it is the same thing. I don't see any reason not to take the text just as it apparently reads--past, present, future.

Understood. Tough call if not for the context. Sure, yesterday is the past but not indicative of all time past.

 

[theefaith]

Yesterday and forever more is not the same thing as before yesterday. I believe Hebrews 13:8 in that after Jesus was resurrected into a glorified body, there will be no change. However, Jesus obviously changed throughout his life. Death is certainly a change, not the same.

As fully God he does not

No. There is only logic. When the text says from today until the last, it does not mean before today. For doctrinal reasons, you are reading into the text to begin before yesterday.

Wrangler is a heretic and they don’t bother with things like logic! lol!

that part about “forever” includes all time

 

[Wrangler]

Hebrews 13:8 seems to suggest that in some way(s) Christ has never and will never change.

That is certainly how trinitarians want the text to be interpreted but certainly not the only valid interpretation. Given the context that Hebrews was written after the resurrection, Jesus was certainly unchanged from the writing of Hebrews. However, to suppose that means for all times past is outside the text and context of Jesus life and death.

 

[Wrangler]

As fully God he does not


Wrangler is a heretic and they don’t bother with things like logic! lol!

that part about “forever” includes all time

The opposite. When someone marries, they are united 'forever' beginning that day - and ending on their last day.

 

[MatthewG]

How do you view this in light of the following:

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

.

Hello Barney,

Everything Jesus was about when walked this earth is still the same as it ever was.

 

[theefaith]

The opposite. When someone marries, they are united 'forever' beginning that day - and ending on their last day.

that would be forever more
But the text here is forever

 

[Pythagorean12]

As I recall there is the idea that the Magdalene was the wife of Jesus. That this writing was omitted from scripture by decree of a pope. And said pope then made Mary of Magdala into a whore, an adultress, in scripture. But didn't omit the passage that identified their wedding in Cana.Which then made sense of Jesus' mother Mary informing him that the wedding feast is out of wine. His first miracle, I believe.

the black legend (lies) of the Protestants

absolute none sense / pure fantasy

the church is the bride of Christ[/QUOTE]
Catholics I know are more aware than to blame Protestants for the evils of their church.
The falsehood conjured against the Magdalene is recorded church history.
Due to Pope Gregory Ist in the homily #33 issued in 591A.D..

 

[theefaith]

the black legend (lies) of the Protestants

absolute none sense / pure fantasy

the church is the bride of Christ

Catholics I know are more aware than to blame Protestants for the evils of their church.
The falsehood conjured against the Magdalene is recorded church history.
Due to Pope Gregory Ist in the homily #33 issued in 591A.D..[/QUOTE]

truth
Jn 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Catholics I know are more aware than to blame Protestants for the evils of their church.
The falsehood conjured against the Magdalene is recorded church history.
Due to Pope Gregory Ist in the homily #33 issued in 591A.D..

truth
Jn 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.[/QUOTE]
That's not homily #33.
And nowhere in that chapter is the woman identified as Mary of Magdala.

 

[theefaith]

truth
Jn 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

That's not homily #33.
And nowhere in that chapter is the woman identified as Mary of Magdala.[/QUOTE]

who were we taking about

 

[Pythagorean12]

That's not homily #33.
And nowhere in that chapter is the woman identified as Mary of Magdala.

who were we taking about[/QUOTE]
I'll let you to figure that out.

 

[Wrangler]

N

that would be forever more
But the text here is forever

No. The text begins yesterday and today. Not sure why you are going beyond the recent past beyond to support your doctrine.

 

[theefaith]

who were we taking about

I'll let you to figure that out.[/QUOTE]

I’m sure k with it even though it’s not de f

N


No. The text begins yesterday and today. Not sure why you are going beyond the recent past beyond to support your doctrine.

well Catholics are universal ya know