Where Does Denial of Scripture About Hell Originate?

[Insight]

Hell Fire

By some, this receptacle of wicked immortal souls is styled Tartarus, Hell, etc, which are also supposed to be in Hades, where the Devil holds the court, encircled by demons, "ghosts, and goblins damned." Some suppose it to be surrounded by a brazen wall, and its entrance continually hidden from view by a cloud of darkness, which is said to be three times gloomier than the obscurest night.

The pagans believe that Hell is surrounded by three impenetrable walls and the impetuous and burning streams of the river Phlegethon. The entrance is by a large and lofty tower, whose gates are supported by columns of adamant, which no power, human or divine, can open. This is described as heaving within with molten surges of glowing lava, whose flaming and sulphurous fires, roar with horrific blast! To this place of torment, we are laid; vicious immortal souls are consigned forever. I will not undertake to detail the horrors of this endless hell.

The lovers of the terrific can be satiated with such details. Upon all common and special occasions elsewhere. We have said thus much concerning the place of vicious disembodied souls, (That you may judge if torment can surpass this?). Eternal life in burning sulphur, superadded to anguish & remorse is the hell of the dogmatists, into which these souls, or spirits, are plunged at dissolution.

Author unknown - written by an Anabaptist in 1813

Insights Comment:

So foreign are these beliefs in the Scripture that one is forced to study the pagan doctrines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlegethon to better understand the imaginations of the wicked. Actually a great number of reforming church’s held this teaching. I believe the Baptists in their formative years and some quarters to this day reject the teaching of eternal torment. Actually, I recently read in interesting article that many Christians in the U.S are also turning away from this pagan believe to better understand the nature of man and the silence of the grave.

I assume Veteran will eventually come in to warn his followers of the dangers and question the motives of this teaching, may even label them as "Satan’s little helpers", needless to say he and others cannot provide Biblical evidence i.e Book, Chapter & Verses describing this place of gloomy darkness?

At best, they can provide figurative language expressing the permenant condition of the death state.

 

[Duckybill]

I like my source better.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Insight]

Book, Chapter & Verses describing this place of gloomy darkness?

 

[Duckybill]

See above.

And below.

Jude 1:5-7 (NKJV)
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[Insight]

 

[jiggyfly]

Please elaborate.

You must be joking.

Do you know what the baptism of fire referenced in Matt. 3:11 is? If you do please give your definition.

What don't you understand about my question?

 

[Duckybill]

You must be joking.

What don't you understand about my question?

You must have something on your mind. I see nothing funny about the baptism in fire Scripture. Speak your mind.

 

[Duckybill]

Lake of fire is symbolic.

In light of the many NT references to eternal punishment and punishment in the fire it is quite clear that the Lake of Fire is meant literally.

Revelation 20:15 (NKJV)
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[veteran]

Num 14:21 Hab 2:14



When our Soul (body) will be change ? Yes 1 Cor 15:52



Lake of fire is symbolic.



His name is Jesus Christ See Dan 2:34,45; 8:25; Mark 14:58; Col 2:11; Heb 9:11

Of course you speak of the “life” which will energise our mortal bodies when Christ appears. "Our life hid with Christ" See Col 3:3,4; Phil 3:21; 2Ti 4:8; 1Pe 1:4,5.

The spirit will quicken our mortal bodies?

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Romans 8:11)

Must mean of course that Jesus still has the same body? with the same nail marks? Zech 12:10

Veteran, have you ever considered seeing the marks in his body?

It will make the tribe of Judah (Jerusalem) weep like they have never wept before!

The "lake of fire" is NOT symbolic. It will be a VERY REAL EVENT OF DESTRUCTION. Now God's Word uses many symbols FOR it, but the "lake of fire" will be an actual event.

Our flesh bodies are NOT going to be resurrected; Eccl.12 showed that very plainly that upon flesh death our flesh body goes back to the earthly elements where it came from. It is only a shell. ONLY Christ's Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly resurrection body to include the marks of His crucifixion.

Apostle Paul revealed this difference also in 1 Cor.15, when he said, "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, ..." (1 Cor.15:37).

The mortal body being quickened he was talking about is our "spiritual body", not our flesh body, which is WHY he also said, "Now this I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Cor.15:50)

Many are so in love with their flesh bodies today that they treat it like a Master Card, they don't want to leave home without it! Problem is, this world is not our true HOME to begin with! That was one of the big problems with the Pharisee's thinking of what the resurrection is, they couldn't understand the flesh is a temporal body, not an eternal one...

John 3:9-12
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"
(KJV)

 

[jiggyfly]

You must have something on your mind. I see nothing funny about the baptism in fire Scripture. Speak your mind.

If you don't know what the baptism of fire referenced in Matt.3:11 is, why not just say so?
I posted the Matt. 3:11 and in response you posted

I don't wish the baptism of fire on anyone.

So I clearly asked your definition of the "baptism of fire referenced in Matt. 3:11
You responded with

Please elaborate.

Here is my question I'll quote it again.

Do you know what the baptism of fire referenced in Matt. 3:11 is? If you do please give your definition.

So what part of my question are you needing elaboration on?

 

[Duckybill]

If you don't know what the baptism of fire referenced in Matt.3:11 is, why not just say so?

Ditto.

I posted the Matt. 3:11 and in response you posted

So I clearly asked your definition of the "baptism of fire referenced in Matt. 3:11
You responded with

Here is my question I'll quote it again.

So what part of my question are you needing elaboration on?

The baptism of fire is Hell. Obvious isn't it.

 

[jiggyfly]

Ditto.

The baptism of fire is Hell. Obvious isn't it.

“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Scripture reads "and fire" not or fire.

 

[Duckybill]

“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Scripture reads "and fire" not or fire.

John was including sinners. Therefore the baptism of fire.

Matthew 3:2 (NKJV)
2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

For those who repent, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Insight]

The "lake of fire" is NOT symbolic. It will be a VERY REAL EVENT OF DESTRUCTION. Now God's Word uses many symbols FOR it, but the "lake of fire" will be an actual event.

The Lake of Fire is not an actual lake! And the fire is not actual fire! It is symbolic of destruction which is to take place at a certain time and place. For instance you could say the judgement of Sodom was turned into a "lake of fire burning with brimstone," and is set forth as an example of the fiery judgments to be experienced by those powers that foolishly resist the reign of Christ (Jude 7). Surely you dont believe that fire is still burning somewhere in the earth today

the judgments are eternal but not the fire and brimstone!

I will not go into the exact nature of the destruction in Rev 20 needless to say it is representative of the Beast and the False Prophet who again are symbolic of powers in the earth (right now) who will eventually be destroyed by Christ and his saints.

Courtesy of luoman

If this is what you believe I suggest you spend less time in front of the Television and more time praying and opening the Word. Maybe you would like to restore some confidence in those here by clearly refuting the above picture is not what Rev 20 is teaching.

Our flesh bodies are NOT going to be resurrected; Eccl.12 showed that very plainly that upon flesh death our flesh body goes back to the earthly elements where it came from. It is only a shell. ONLY Christ's Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to the heavenly resurrection body to include the marks of His crucifixion.

“To include the marks of His crucifixion” This is the first time I heard this whooper! Please, where do you get this nonsense Veteran?

Apostle Paul revealed this difference also in 1 Cor.15, when he said, "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, ..." (1 Cor.15:37).
The mortal body being quickened he was talking about is our "spiritual body", not our flesh body, which is WHY he also said, "Now this I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Cor.15:50)

If you quoted 1 Cor 15:38 you will find "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him" The word "pleased" is THELO meaning to will, to wish, to desire. From the very beginning the Divine principle has not changed; everything produces "after their kind", Gen 1:11,12, 21, 24, 25. There is no confusion in nature and the same principle will apply to the resurrected body. Your body will one day be placed in a grave and after some time it will corrupt, because of its weakness, and you will NOT be raised in a state of perfection, incorruption, honour and power. Your human nature cannot become angelic without a complete “change” effected by the intervention of the divine will.

Your very body must need change from flesh and blood to Flesh and Spirit. Your very body energised by the Spirit of God.

But needless to say this has nothing to do with immortality of the soul or man – for this is “put” on as a garment, and not something in our possession. The change, or clothing with immortality is totally external to us as per 1 Cor 15:53,54.

Paul understood Divine Power is required to change our present state.

This mortal Body shall “put “on immortality. Of course this language doesn’t suit your doctrine. Now whether it is putting on Christ Col 3:12 or the new man Col 3:10, or symbolically putting on the armour Eph 6:11 all require an external putting on for above. If immortality came from within, the language would not be external but internal...it is not!

Veteran, how about we find something to agree on shall we?

In 1 Cor 15 to you see the following process being taught.

1[sup]st[/sup] Death
2[sup]nd[/sup] Ressurection
3[sup]rd[/sup] Judgement & Glorification

Seed – sprout body – raised & glorified body - - keeping in line with Pauls sowing example.

"Sown" --- "Raised"
'It springs forth' - -- 'It is caused to exist'
IN --- IN
Corruption --- Incorruption
Dishonour --- Glory
Weakness --- Power
A natural body --- A spiritual body

Insight

 

[Duckybill]

Yes indeed, it is a literal fire. And Jesus said it will be so HORRIFYING that it would be better to cut off body parts than to go there.

Mark 9:43-48 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--44 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched--46 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire--48 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'

And of course, the fire shall NEVER be quenched. Just one of many clear warnings of the eternal fire.

 

[aspen]

The fire is bitterness, regret, feelings of being cheated, feelings of unrecognized self-glory, loneliness, detachment from God and the True Self.

Hell is suicide of the True Self, which is the only way we can know and relate to God.

 

[Duckybill]

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46 (NKJV)
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[Duckybill]

The fire is bitterness, regret, feelings of being cheated, feelings of unrecognized self-glory, loneliness, detachment from God and the True Self.

Hell is suicide of the True Self, which is the only way we can know and relate to God.

Seems to me that you previously stated that Hell is God's mercy.

 

[jiggyfly]

John was including sinners. Therefore the baptism of fire.

Matthew 3:2 (NKJV)
2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

For those who repent, the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

But that's not what the scripture says, context is important.

 

[Duckybill]

But that's not what the scripture says, context is important.

So then, why would John say that God would baptize sinners with fire? The term 'baptize' meaning 'immerse'.