Where Does Denial of Scripture About Hell Originate?

[Insight]

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in “paradise”. Luke 23:43

The word Paradise is also interesting in the Grk: “the paradise”. It is a Persian word meaning “a park”. Only other occurrence is found in 2 Cor 12:4KJV & Rev 2:7KJV.

Both 2 Cor 12:4YLT & Rev 2:7YLT are references to the future Kingdom of God on earth. It’s also interesting that Septuagint LXX uses this Persian word for “Garden of Eden” in Gen 2:8.

Context suggests the "paradise" being referred is the second coming when the malefactor along with many other faithful will be resurrected to judgment and glory.

This teaching of the Garden of Eden (Paradise Luke 23:42YLT) being the future Kingdom of God on Earth is found also in Ezekiel’s Prophecy.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. (Ezekiel 36:33-36)

The future Garden of Eden (Paradise) of Israel will be cleansed of all her sins, as the tree of life will be in her midst Rev 2:7. In that day, Jesus Christ will reign as King over his Fathers Kingdom sitting upon David's throne (Luke 1:32) with his Apostles (Luke 22:30) and the malefactor will be to him a faithful and loving servant.

 

[Duckybill]

Today doesn't mean today?

 

[Insight]

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:20; Ezek 18:4;

Does this mean save an immortal soul from death; can a deathless soul die?

Isa 53:10,12

Was it an immortal soul poured out unto death, or was it not Messiah's blood, in which was the life of his flesh, that became a sin offering?

From these few passages it is clear, that the word 'soul' is not used by the Spirit in the sense of an 'immortal soul,' as the chief men of the age suppose.

 

[Insight]

The truth is, that the word 'soul' is used in the scriptures in a great variety of senses, in other words, we cannot say that soul means blood or life, and that it is to be interpreted this way wherever it occurs. However, wherever it is quoted it is NEVER used in the sense of man possessing something immortal. Importability must be PUT on. 1 Cor 15:53

Its textual signification depends on the context. This will give the true, or spiritual sense; not of soul only, but of all other words taught by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, for the Spirit interprets its own terms as we saw in Heb 4:12 or Post #132.

 

[Duckybill]

The truth is, that the word 'soul' is used in the scriptures in a great variety of senses, in other words, we cannot say that soul means blood or life, and that it is to be interpreted this way wherever it occurs. However, wherever it is quoted it is NEVER used in the sense of man possessing something immortal. Importability must be PUT on. 1 Cor 15:53

Its textual signification depends on the context. This will give the true, or spiritual sense; not of soul only, but of all other words taught by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, for the Spirit interprets its own terms as we saw in Heb 4:12 or Post #132.

Do you believe in Jesus/God and eternal punishment in Hell?

 

[Insight]

Ps 6:1-5
1 O LORD, rebuke me not in Thine anger, neither chasten me in Thy hot displeasure.
2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
3 My soul (Body) is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long?
4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for Thy mercies' sake.
5 For in death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave who shall give Thee thanks?
(KJV)

Once again the scriptures need no expositional commentary from us.

Context: Weakness in his Flesh Body.

The disease is penetrating his whole frame due to David's sin: See Job 4:14; 30:17,30; 33:19,20,21.

Words such as weak, heal, bones, death, grave all expressive of the true meaning of soul.

Flesh and Blood Animal Creature subject to suffering and pain.

 

[Duckybill]

Once again the scriptures need no expositional commentary from us.

Context: Weakness in his Flesh Body.

The disease is penetrating his whole frame due to David's sin: See Job 4:14; 30:17,30; 33:19,20,21.

Words such as weak, heal, bones, death, grave all expressive of the true meaning of soul.

Flesh and Blood Animal Creature subject to suffering and pain.

Guess you missed my question:

"Do you believe in Jesus/God and eternal punishment in Hell?"

 

[Insight]

When Adam who ate the fruit was to die, and the sentence was consummated in the 930th year of his age; but the record says nothing of liability to the pains of hell forever. Gen 5:5 Follow by Gen 5:8,11,14,20,27; 9:29 its not until we get to Deut 32:22 that we see the first use of the word sheh-ole to mean grave or pit.

The expulsion of an immortal from Eden that he might not live forever is nonsense.

The truth is, Man is a living soul; that is, a living creature. He was created with a susceptibility of death or Life-Eternal, predicated upon his own choice; which was a quality that distinguished and exalted him above all other animals.

In Eden he held a position relatively to the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life. Death and Life Eternal were before him; the one the wages of sin; the other, the reward of obedience, as has been revealed. If he had been created subject to death, death would certainly not have been assigned as a punishment for eating the forbidden fruit; and had he been formed immortal from the dust, or immortality been breathed "into his nostrils”, Eternal Life would not have been connected with anything exterior to him.

The truth is that his destiny was predicated upon his actions. He disobeyed, and, in transgressing, he came under the sentence of the Law, which said "to dust thou shalt return." This was a process of many centuries: a process which might not have been interrupted. To avert this calamity, the Lord God expelled him from the Garden (Gen 3:23); for had he eaten of the Tree of Life he would have lived forever, an immortal sinner and subject to all the ills of flesh eternally. Therefore, because he had come to know evil, the Lord God drove out the man, that he might NOT “live forever". But a mortal life, subject to death, but before that, a probation Phil 2:12 to life.

 

[veteran]

When Adam who ate the fruit was to die, and the sentence was consummated in the 930th year of his age; but the record says nothing of liability to the pains of hell forever. Gen 5:5 Follow by Gen 5:8,11,14,20,27; 9:29 its not until we get to Deut 32:22 that we see the first use of the word sheh-ole to mean grave or pit.

The expulsion of an immortal from Eden that he might not live forever is nonsense.

What's nonsense, is blatant denial of The Word of God there as written.

Just because we may not yet understand many things written in God's Word does not mean we can change Holy Writ to align more with our own understanding. There's has to be more Biblical proof considered first to come to understand it.

Definite articles provided. Heb 4:12 answers itself, no exposition required from either of us! Context: Sacrificial idioms in use. 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul (psuche = BODY ) and spirit (pneuma=MIND), and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart (MIND). Division is two (2) "Joints and Marrow" answers to the psuche i.e FLESH BODY "Thoughts and intents" answer to the pueuma i.e MIND, THOUGHTS, REASONINGS Veteran, the language adopted is one of sacrifice where the author moves from the physical sacrifice and its examination (that is the body i.e. blemishes) to the spiritual (Mind i.e. Thoughts and Intentions motivated by God). Thus the inner recesses of the animal symbolise the thoughts and attitudes of the human mind! Therefore, animal man is likened to the examination of the animal offering, though its mind is carnal and cannot manifest the Mind of God. Rom 8:7 However man is made in the Image and likeness of the Elohim possessing one of two minds Rom 8:6 The mind governed by the flesh is death (1), but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace (2). Context is essential in understanding truth.

I see NO context to your explanation at all.

Does anyone else???

You're trying to FORCE the context to you own conclusions, because "marrow" is NOT about spirit or soul. That verse is making note of 3 distinct parts with 3 different Greek words, psuche, pneuma, and machah. That in itself proves your claim to Biblical 'context' as a huge joke!!

 

[Insight]

What's nonsense, is blatant denial of The Word of God there as written.

Just because we may not yet understand many things written in God's Word does not mean we can change Holy Writ to align more with our own understanding. There's has to be more Biblical proof considered first to come to understand it.

Rather than hiding behind spiritual ignorance, why not take us to Genesis Chapters 1,2 & 3 to teach us the immortal soul?

I see NO context to your explanation at all.

Does anyone else???

why call for help?

You're trying to FORCE the context to you own conclusions, because "marrow" is NOT about spirit or soul. That verse is making note of 3 distinct parts with 3 different Greek words, psuche, pneuma, and machah. That in itself proves your claim to Biblical 'context' as a huge joke!!

Heb 4:12 Speaks to the priest's knife separating the bone from bone very finely and precisely, revealing the "marrow", the inner recesses of the sacrificed animal. If you understood the true intent of Heb 4:12 you would understand we are such "sacrifices" (See Rom 12:1,2), to be carefully inspected for blemishes, and if accepted or rejected based upon such scrutiny.

Romans 12:1 - Present your Bodies
Romans 12:2 - Renewing of your Minds

“The word is "sharper" than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit; joints and marrow.”

Soul here is speaking to the outer physical form of the animal and the spirit, its inner thinking mind, just as Joints (outer) is from marrow (inner).

“The word is "sharper" than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit; joints and marrow.”

How can you divide an immortal soul?

You must take the participants in this forum as fools.

Accept that you misquoted Heb 4:12 and that you have no Bible basis for teaching immortality of the soul.

 

[Duckybill]

Rather than hiding behind spiritual ignorance, why not take us to Genesis Chapters 1,2 & 3 to teach us the immortal soul?

why call for help?



Heb 4:12 Speaks to the priest's knife separating the bone from bone very finely and precisely, revealing the "marrow", the inner recesses of the sacrificed animal. If you understood the true intent of Heb 4:12 you would understand we are such "sacrifices" (See Rom 12:1,2), to be carefully inspected for blemishes, and if accepted or rejected based upon such scrutiny.

Romans 12:1 - Present your Bodies
Romans 12:2 - Renewing of your Minds

“The word is "sharper" than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit; joints and marrow.”

Soul here is speaking to the outer physical form of the animal and the spirit, its inner thinking mind, just as Joints (outer) is from marrow (inner).

“The word is "sharper" than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit; joints and marrow.”

How can you divide an immortal soul?

You must take the participants in this forum as fools.

Accept that you misquoted Heb 4:12 and that you have no Bible basis for teaching immortality of the soul.

Do I detect another JW???

Guess you missed my question:

"Do you believe in Jesus/God and eternal punishment in Hell?"

 

[Insight]

You're trying to FORCE the context to you own conclusions, because "marrow" is NOT about spirit or soul. That verse is making note of 3 distinct parts with 3 different Greek words, psuche, pneuma, and machah. That in itself proves your claim to Biblical 'context' as a huge joke!!

Heb 4:12

If as you say the word is to mean soul (immortal)

How is the immortal soul divided asunder by the Word of God?

If you say the word Spirt is to mean "Divine Spirit" how is this Spirit divided by itself? If indeed you believe the Spirit is the word of God?

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

Any idea Veteran?

 

[Duckybill]

Hey Insight, why aren't you answering my simple and vital question?

"Do you believe in Jesus/God and eternal punishment in Hell?" ???

 

[Duckybill]

The silence is deafening.

 

[Insight]

Heb 4:12

If as you say the word is to mean soul (immortal)

How is the immortal soul divided asunder by the Word of God?

If you say the word Spirt is to mean "Divine Spirit" how is this Spirit divided by itself? If indeed you believe the Spirit is the word of God?

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

Any idea Veteran?

Also, how do you pierce something ethereal?

Can I thrust a sword through wind

and why would God divide His Essense?

 

[Duckybill]

Also, how do you pierce something ethereal?

Can I thrust a sword through wind

Jehovah's Witness?

 

[Insight]

No - - still heeding Pauls advice from 1 Tim 6:4

Heb 4:12

 

[Duckybill]

No - - still heeding Pauls advice from 1 Tim 6:4

Heb 4:12

So then, do you believe in Jesus/God and eternal punishment in Hell? Why are you dodging the question?

 

[Insight]

I sense that you don't know what you're talking about, so bye.

Jesus taught in Matt 5:37...are you a man of your word? If so, why persist to ask questions of one who doesnt know what he is talking about? Or, do you say things you dont mean?

Our conversation started out amicably in post #136, however I sense a degree of contention within your posts, so it is best I heed Prov 15:18.

The Word cannot be received if a "peaceful" relationship is not maintained.

Maybe next time the outcome could be different.

God Bless

Insight

This Prov 15:18 & Matt 5:37still applies, I have said this twice - - that will be all! This was God's method and so it is mine (Gen 41:32).

Insight.

 

[Duckybill]

The Fifth Amendment won't apply on Judgment Day.