Earburner
Well-Known Member
So how shall all Israel be saved, when most all, in every generation of Israel reside in unbelief of the Lord Jesus Christ, even at this moment?
Who Is The "Root" We're Grafted Into?
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They will look upon Him Whom they had pierced, and God will give them a spirit of grace and supplication.
Much love!
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
What's not so? My belief is what it is. And it is based on God's faithfulness to His own promises, to His own word. What He promised Abraham is plainly recorded in Scriptures, both OT and NT. And yes, it is so.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
You have neglected to hear the Lord Jesus, their Messiah, that they rejected and still do.
Mat. 21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Born again Christians ARE that nation of people that the KoG was/is GIVEN to.
1 Peter 2:9
God is still going to keep His Word to Israel.
I'm curious, whether you think it to be the case or not, can your imagine a circumstance where both passages remain true?
Branches can be grafted back in, right?
Much love!
VictoryinJesus
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“Saved in unbelief” makes me think of
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
I’ve always wondered wouldn't God do towards one, the same as towards the other? To the Jew first yes, but also to the gentile? Romans 2:8-11 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, [9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [10] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: [11] For there is no respect of persons with God.
Instead God looks at the heart?
…for the Lord sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.
Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Yet God esteems that which is outward higher than that which is inward…so much so the promises are towards that which is outward (more so) than towards that which is inward?
Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
?
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
When would that be, as if they would have time to do so, when Jesus "suddenly" returns from Heaven "in flaming fire"?
Is "in the twinkling of an eye" enough time for them to repent, believe the Gospel, recieve God's Holy Spirit and then be made immortal, so that they all aren't burnt to a crisp before they hit the ground?
I don't think so!
Luke 11:13,
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10,
1 Corinthians 15:52-53.
Zechariah 12:8-10 KJV
8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
I believe this will be fulfilled as Jesus appears in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who would dare poke their finger in God's eye by trying to destroy Israel. And Israel will see Him and look upon Him, and mourn for Him, as for an only Son. And in their mourning, will be the mourning of a people who have denied their Hope and Peace for a long long time.
I believe Elijah shall come and fulfill all things, preparing a people for the Lord.
Much love!
Earburner
Well-Known Member
And if they still abide in unbelief, upon the day of Jesus' Glorious appearance from Heaven, God the Father will forgive them, though they would be found in unbelief on that Day, but then go ahead and graff them in again, just because they were Jewish?
How much more can you fabricate?
You are not making sense with NT scripture?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Sorry, Zechariah 12:8-10 was fulfilled in the days of Jesus' first appearance and Pentecost.
Interesting.
Including this part?
8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And then there is this . . .
Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
As the LORD defends the Holy City Jerusalem.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:20-21 KJV
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
These shall be fulfulled.
Much love!
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I have a somewhat different view. I do believe that Israel was the original Chosen Nation of God. But I also believe that when God told Abraham He would make of him a nation, He also promised him that He would create many nations of faith. So both Israel and many nations were called to be nations of faith, on behalf of Abraham.
When Jesus said the Kingdom of God would be taken from Israel, he was referring to the many times in the OT Scriptures where God said He would remove from Israel their blessings if they did not obey His word. And then, as Hosea said, they were, at least temporarily, no longer "His People."
And so, the Kingdom of God was indeed about to be taken from Israel, in 70 AD, when the Roman "nation" came in and destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. The Kingdom of God had been at least temporally residing in Israel, even after the Davidic kings has stopped serving as kings.
And then the Kingdom of God was given to the Roman "nation," which I call "nation" because it was, I think, the 4th Kingdom God told Daniel would arise upon the earth before the Kingdom of the Son of Man comes. That Roman nation actually continues to the present day, even though Daniel predicted it would be broken up into 10 states, ultimately unifying again under the Antichrist.
As we know from history, this Roman nation was Christianized, proving that as Jesus said, the Kingdom of God would be taken from Israel and given to them. But this in no way means Israel is forever lost as one of these many nations promised to Abraham. On the contrary, Paul argues in Romans 9-11 that Israel would be reinstituted as God's People, and share in the multiplied nations of faith that God has created on earth.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Jesus said that the spirit of Elijah already came in the person of John the Baptist!
Matthew 11:7-15
[13] For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John [the Baptist].
[14] And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
[15] He that hath ears to hear, let him hear
Malachi 4:5-6 KJV
5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Matthew 17:10-13 KJV
10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Both things are true.
Elijah's coming was fulfilled in John the Baptist. He was killed. Messiah' coming was fulfilled in Jesus. He was killed.
Elijah shall come and prepare a people for God. Messiah shall come and give the kingdom to His people.
Much love!
5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Matthew 17:10-13 KJV
10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Both things are true.
Elijah's coming was fulfilled in John the Baptist. He was killed. Messiah' coming was fulfilled in Jesus. He was killed.
Elijah shall come and prepare a people for God. Messiah shall come and give the kingdom to His people.
Much love!
Earburner
Well-Known Member
I have provided the scripture for the truthful and fulfilled "nation" of whom the KoG was/IS GIVEN TO. Every person who is "born again" of the Spirit of God.
1 Peter 2:9, John 3:3-8.
ONLY Born Again Christians enter into the KoG. Romans 8:9
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Again, what did Jesus say about John the Baptist? I gave you the scripture.
Don't you have ears to hear? If so then believe what Jesus said, and stop believing fabricated and false doctrines by "churchianity".
It's actually more than this (i.e. more in the explanation of what you just accurately stated): They will see the prophecies contained in the New Testament coming to pass. And by the time the Antichrist breaks the covenant, those who have come to Christ will already see it coming, and flee into the wilderness like Christ commanded they would need to, while the rest will not.
Result? Believing Jews will be all that is left, because those who did not believe, and did not heed Christ's warning but chose to stay put, will die. And thus, "all Israel will be saved."
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered and said to them... 15 “when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
At the time Peter wrote this letter, and also at the time John wrote his letter, Israel was still the only nation of God. Gentile Christianity, as such, did not consist of "nations," as such.
Using the word "nation" as a metaphor doesn't work--God made Israel a literal nation, and the many Christian nations also were literal Christian nations.
It is *not true* that the Kingdom of God had been given only to "born again believers." Israel was a nation, all of whom were committed to the one God in theory, but who had to over time decide if they would remain or compromise. Many did compromise ultimately.
But that doesn't mean that the Kingdom of God had not been given to *all of them,* those who maintained their faith and those who lost their faith. God gave the Kingdom to the whole nation, regardless of the outcome of individuals.
It is the same with the Christian nations. God gives His Kingdom to the nation, as a whole, who profess, collectively to follow that kind of "theocracy." Those, individually, who fall away did receive the Kingdom even though it can also be taken away from them individually, or even nationally.
Those who subscribe, as a people, to a Christian nation come under the name, "Christian nation," and therefore have received the Kingdom of God collectively. Whether individuals remain in the faith or not is decided over time.
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VictoryinJesus
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I must have really messed up that post because I was agreeing with you.
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