Who Is The "Root" We're Grafted Into?

[marks]

Yes, it makes no sense to me…how much we can debate over every thing. marks started a thread and then named it “deleted” even there debates are creeping in on politics…

Is that so?

I'll have to look in. I haven't found a way to totally delete a thread I've changed my mind on.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. The covenant of grace was with the entire planet... It was Israel's duty to share the gospel with everyone else. They failed.

Ok, you gotta cut this out, LoL. You're becoming a bit like a broken record with this.

We always need to remember that the Root of the tree was Jewish, and He did not fail. The branches were also Jewish, and if they had not preached to the Gentiles, you would not be saved, but they did. This tendency only to see evil in others is not of God, and I don't really know any other way to put it. Paul said in Romans 11 that it was through our mercy that they would obtain mercy, and that His desire was to have mercy on them as well if they repented. When we perpetually focus on their failings, this is in reality a sinful thing to do, and not in keeping with the Spirit of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why?
Evidently you do not know of the financial riches of the Banking Elite Rothchild family, and the agreement that they entered into, in order to purchase the God rejected land of Israel from Great Britain for the Jews.

As for the "Deliverer" Jesus, He already came to them, but they "did not know the time of their visitation" Luke 19:44. Therefore, the only way that Jesus now comes to them, is through Born Again Christians, sharing with them the Gospel of the KoG, who is Christ Himself.
Mat. 23[39] For I say unto you [Jews], ye shall not see [percieve] me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

See Post #84. The assumption that I am not aware of the Rothchilds, George Soros, Henry Kissinger, and other powerful Jewish-born globalists who are pulling strings behind the scenes is coming from where exactly? Personal knowledge of my education level? Or do you simply wish to paint me as ignorant so you can make your argument sound more plausible because obviously you're the only one who knows what's going on in world politics.

that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things,

"Not to themselves" is not a reference to Jews as opposed to Gentiles here Victory. It is a reference to the prophets speaking to the people of their time versus the people of NT times. Different thing. This is a quote from Peter, and Peter was not an apostle to the Gentiles like Paul was; his primary audience were Jewish believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Earburner]

but then it gets tricky (Imo) with all the different theologies …being told only they (the Jews) of that era were counted as first fruits …but my question would be then what about the Fruit of the Spirit and doesn’t any one have the Spirit of God that they may bring, bear, Fruit unto God?
Nehemiah 10:35 And to bring the firstfruits of our ground, and the firstfruits of all fruit of all trees, year by year, unto the house of the Lord : Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Exodus 23:19-20 The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. [20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

And here we are taking about “first fruits” of increase, “alive unto God” money matters…or ‘alive unto God’ matters?

Also, concerning the topic of the thread…I still can’t get past Revelation 22:16-17 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. [17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

What I can’t get past is how that gets brushed under a rug and the debate continues of who is the root? …is that not sincere then? “I am the root and the offspring of David” for me that, remains confusing, like when he says he is the way, the truth, and the Life…well not technically we might debate in going off on our own to find another way, truth, and the life. Same with living water…maybe there is another “if any drinks of this water they will thirst again, Ask and I will give you Living water”? Yes, it makes no sense to me…how much we can debate over every thing. marks started a thread and then named it “deleted” even there debates are creeping in on politics…

What you see in Revelation 6:9-11, are those who are accounted for in Malachi 3:16. After physical death, no one else has been given a "white robe", the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, except they who are of the OC. under the altar.
This is the meaning and the reason for why Jesus descended into hell (the graves), but to give the faithful of Israel past, the
"promise" of the Holy Spirit, that they had long waited for.
And that did Christ do, on the Day of Pentecost.
Ephesians 4[8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
[9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
[10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

[Brakelite]

No. My friend has a tangerine tree with a mandarin orange branch grafted on.

It's still mandarin oranges, but is grafted to the tangerine tree, to received nourishment from the root.

Much love!

The mandarins will be sorted out before the feast for not having the correct attire.

 

[marks]

The mandarins will be sorted out before the feast for not having the correct attire.

The mandarins ARE the feast!

 

[APAK]

The mandarins will be sorted out before the feast for not having the correct attire.

Have you figured out yet how long you can hang there upside down before all the blood rushes to your head and knocks you out, out of your tree....lol

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Is that so?

I'll have to look in. I haven't found a way to totally delete a thread I've changed my mind on.

Much love!

I didn’t mean anything by it also not knowing how to delete a thread I’ve started. I’ve wanted to delete a thread before, many times. It was smart what you did there…I only meant our opinion assertions slowly have a tendency to creep in. Im sorry I used yours there as an example.

 

[marks]

I didn’t mean anything by it also not knowing how to delete a thread I’ve started. I’ve wanted to delete a thread before, many times. It was smart what you did there…I only meant our opinion assertions slowly have a tendency to creep in. Im sorry I used yours there as an example.

You may be misunderstanding me, I meant nothing amiss. All good! I always marvel how we can argue even over "."

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Not to themselves" is not a reference to Jews as opposed to Gentiles here Victory. It is a reference to the prophets speaking to the people of their time versus the people of NT times. Different thing.

“not unto themselves” Do you mean not to “themselves” they ministered but unto you…as saying not to the gentiles…but unto the Jews? Have I understood your point there?


still question that verse because First) the time movement in: “who prophesied of the Grace that should come unto you…the glory that should follow?

1 Peter 1:10-12 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: [11] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. [12] Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.


Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things,
^to be clearer (Imo)
“not unto themselves”
but “unto us they did minister “
Was this revealed in
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. [43] But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: [44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. [45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mark 10:42-45

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You may be misunderstanding me, I meant nothing amiss. All good! I always marvel how we can argue even over "."

Much love!

me too

 

[Hidden In Him]

“not unto themselves” Do you mean not to “themselves” they ministered but unto you…as saying not to the gentiles…but unto the Jews? Have I understood your point there?

"Not to themselves" means not to the Jews who lived during the time in which the prophets first spoke the prophecies, but to Jews lining in NT times. Thus, it is not a reference to Gentiles.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Not to themselves" means not to the Jews who lived during the time in which the prophets first spoke the prophecies, but to Jews lining in NT times. Thus, it is not a reference to Gentiles.

you do not see any connection to he came not to be ministered unto, but to minister? I don’t mean to be redundant but for me that verse has spoke of Charity? I’m not saying you are wrong…only that I’ve had a different perspective there and regardless of whether it was Jew of that time to the Jews now, or Jews to gentiles, or gentiles to Jews…it helps for me in clarifying: love doesn’t seek its own but that of another?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We always need to remember that the Root of the tree was Jewish, and He did not fail.

If Christ is the root then how is that root Jewish but instead “a new creature”? Christ is all, and in all…Colossians 3:10-14 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [11] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. [12] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [13] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

if the root is holy? “holy and beloved”
Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If Christ is the root then how is that root Jewish but instead “a new creature”? Christ is all, and in all…Colossians 3:10-14 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [11] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. [12] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [13] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Christ didn't have to become a "new creature." We become a new creature in Him.

 

[Brakelite]

If Christ is the root then how is that root Jewish but instead “a new creature”? Christ is all, and in all…Colossians 3:10-14 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [11] Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. [12] Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [13] Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. [14] And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

if the root is holy? “holy and beloved”
Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

^^^^^^^what she said.

 

[Brakelite]

Christ didn't have to become a "new creature." We become a new creature in Him.

Precisely. Those mandarins became tangearines.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Precisely. Those mandarins became tangelos.

I don't know how we got on oranges, Lol, but if you want a response you may have to pray for me. Not following.

Hey look! An orange that's been "grafted" into an apple!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not quite right.

There’s no such thing as a church covenant. The new covenant was, and remains, the new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, and at the present time only a remnant believe in Jesus and are in their own covenant, and we gentiles are grafted in among the natural branches who are part of that remnant, to the Israel Olive tree.

This is why Jesus said salvation is of the Jews. He’s their messiah, the new covenant is theirs, and salvation came to the gentiles to make Israel jealous.

If we’re spiritual Israel, it’s only because we are grafted into that Israelite tree.

Maranatha

Sorry, I don't agree. Israel was just the 1st of many nations God planned to give Abraham. He first planned to give him his own biological nation, Israel. And then He planned to expand nations of faith around the world, which is, of course, the many Christian nations that have evolved since.

The fact all of these nations of faith have fallen onto hard times does not mean God failed. He can restore all of them, and I believe He will.

The Covenant God made with Abraham was processed through the Old Covenant of Law as a way of preparing for expansion to many nations. When Christ came it was time for this expansion into all the world, to include "many nations."

So the covenants positively involved nations--not just Israel. It began with Israel, but the endgame was the nations of the world.

Initially, Gentiles were grafted onto the tree of Israel because at that time only Israel existed. The only people of faith were a small remnant of Jews who belonged to the fading Jewish nation. But we shouldn't use that symbolism today, because the Gentile nations have their own nations of faith, and unbelievers from pagan nations can be grafted onto them, as well.

 

[Enoch111]

I always marvel how we can argue even over "."

That's what happens when people go off on tangents.