@GodsGrace The fact that someone professes for a while does not mean that s/he was ever a true believer...
Eternal Security
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Hi marks...I did notice that your last paragraph above was important and I wanted to not be sleepy...
Here's what you stated:
Our concern is over being sufficiently obedient, sufficiently trusting so as to maintain our good standing with God. My concern is that we remain sufficiently trusting in our good standing with God so as to maintain our obedience.
You don't make it easy!
I do, however, understand the difference.
This is a common statement that I come across on these forums.
If I had to choose one, I would choose the second situation.
If we love and trust God, we will be obedient to Him.
This is what Jesus said in
John 14:15
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
But then we read in
John 15:10 and John 15:14 the opposite...
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love...
You are My friends IF you do what I command...
So we have here a razor thin line.
We obey because we love...
We love because we obey...
What I believe is that if we care enough to do the "work" then we can know that
we seek God in our life and will be saved - even if we don't really have a concept of "salvation" as we understand it.
If we DO have a concept of "salvation" as we understand it, then it's possible to understand both sentiments.
How do you understand this difference in your paragraph?
Just one of the reasons I agree with you, rebirth is permanent. You don't undo it any more than you can stop having been born from your earthy parents.
Born from God is exactly that, born from God.
Much love!
What work exactly is this you have in mind that we are to do?
Do you mean to exert our willpower over our fleshy weaknesses? To control our behavior by our determination to do this, and not do that?
Much love!
You cannot claim to be Jesus' friend, and ignore what He tells you. But doing what He commands isn't what makes us His friend.
John 15:12-15 KJV
12) This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13) Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14) Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15) Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
He's going to lay down His life for us, His love for us, so now that we know, we're His friends, if we follow His command, to love others as He loved us.
We are His friends if we do what He commands, and if we don't, it's because we are not.
Much love!
What does it take for a person to qualify as "a true believer"?
Were Adam and Eve true believers in the God with whom they fellowshipped daily before they sinned?
I'd say they obviously believed IN God, but did they Believe God? Maybe not.
Much love!
Is not the following verse effectively saying that Adam was born of God?
"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38
But then, what happened here?
"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Gen 3:22-24
But then God sent His Son to give people an opportunity to do better than their first natural parents:
Given that then what would the following mean?
"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." Rom 11:16-21
So are you considering the need to change the meaning of scripture so as to line up with what you already believe? Is it possible rather that there is an error in what you already believe in need of correction?
Truth7t7
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- Jan 2, 2014
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I Agree, your not saved unless you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, and this is until the day of redemption (The End)
Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
No I'm not. I believe we should be subject to Scripture, and not the opposite.
Much love!
But is that the same as,
John 3:7 KJV
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Does this born again merely return you to Adam's state, so you can continue to fall? Will the shattered mirror become seemless again if you put the pieces back together? Will it not once again be shattered?
Don't we need shatterproof? Isn't that what being born of the spirit, spirit born from Spirit, and not flesh?
Was Adam alive in Christ's resurrection before His fall?
Much love!
Again, I believe, a problem occurs very often with believers when they take hold of the Bible as the the Israelites did Nehushtan. The Bible is not God, and unless quickened by the Holy Spirit in a person, I do not believe that it is the Word of God. Without the quickening of the Spirit, it has no Life!
I would still say it's the Word of God, but certainly that we cannot understand it without the Holy Spirit to teach us. Like if we "search the Scriptures for life" but will not receive life.
Much love!
The rebirth I see as a new opportunity for any person to come to Life. All of the offspring of Adam and Eve were born dead in the eyes of God. They all had hope and the Hope arrived in the person of Jesus born to Mary in Bethlehem. He brought Life, but how does one attain to it?
Jesus reopened the closed and guarded door/gate leading to the Tree of Life. But no one was immediately ready to walk through that door/gate. God also provided the means for anyone to pass through it when the Holy Ghost was poured out on the day of Pentecost.
Jesus had his work to do and he did it overcoming the world of the man of flesh, Jesus. As a result of him doing his work it is now possible for us to do our work, overcoming the world of our particular man.
Before Jesus and the Holy Ghost in us it was impossible. While it is now possible by means of God in us, it needs to be done! He must direct our steps. We cannot direct ourselves and ever overcome as Jesus overcame. The scriptures do tell us how to do it if we are able understand what they are saying to us.
If we can never enter through that door/gate, we can never partake of the Tree of Life. Death remains!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
This sounds so beautiful . So let me leave us with some scriptural reminders from JESUS and the apostels .
But he who endures to the END the same shall be saved .
IF JESUS said it , ITS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME .
So let us all remind one another to CONTINUE IN THE GOODNESS OF GOD , TO CONTINUE IN CHRIST and to do so UNTO THE END .
Just like the apostels also did . I mean ITS ALL SCRIPTURE . So lets USE IT to help the BODY .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And on that note , I think its high time again to just praise and thank the glorious LORD .
So may a praise fest begin unto the LORD . Let me start it .......HANDS UP , PRAISES OUT . march onwards one , march onwards all
and do beware lest any gets taken in with the error of the wicked and falls from his own steadfastness .
Endure to the end . THE LORD is all we need . HEED HIM , HEED THE SPIRIT and ye shall NOT FULLFILL the lusts of the flesh .
OH that is in scriptures as well .
So may a praise fest begin unto the LORD . Let me start it .......HANDS UP , PRAISES OUT . march onwards one , march onwards all
and do beware lest any gets taken in with the error of the wicked and falls from his own steadfastness .
Endure to the end . THE LORD is all we need . HEED HIM , HEED THE SPIRIT and ye shall NOT FULLFILL the lusts of the flesh .
OH that is in scriptures as well .
Your way or my way of expressing it... it does ultimately, as I see it, amount to the same thing... for the two of us. I do believe that there is a difference, but to many people it does not matter.
I am not against calling the Bible the Word of God as long as people do not misunderstand the whole message of God as a result. If we continue to seek His face for a long as we have time, will God misdirect us?
Natural branches are being grafted back in...praise God!
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