Why do people worry about sins

[RichardBurger]

I am sorry that you are so upset with me. I just believe for myself that we need t live holy lives. Its not something that works can do it is an inside job. The word of God clearly states that sin will not enter the kingdom of God and that holiness is required! Your works don't get you into Heaven but your works show forth what you store up in your heart and who you believe in. Why are you so against living holy and against people who strive to live holy? i did not insult anyone about their sin I sin every day! But I strive to live holy for God! What scriptures can you find that says that God does not want his people to live holy?

First of all, I am not upset with anyone. You can believe what ever you wish.

Second, do you really think your flesh becomes sinless and enters into heaven?

Your teaching that a person must become sinless in the flesh in order to get into heaven shuts the door on those who realize that they need Jesus' blood to cover their sins everyday, everyhour. It leads to a theology of becoming good to get into heaven.

Let me show you how your religious theology affects many.

It has been my lot to find out, first hand, the results of those that teach sinless perfection in the flesh. How it causes many to turn away from Jesus.

A tragic story:

When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.

It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him. It did not seem to change him.

I found that he had been talking to some Christians that were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning. He wanted to stop sinning but he said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it in your mind. He wanted to know what I believed about it.

I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves; to do for them what they could not do, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to trust that it has saved you.

I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.

It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of the self-righteous does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. They don't go in themselves (because they still sin too) and they prevent others that would go in from doing so, all because they want to see themselves as better, and more righteous, than others.

Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(NKJ)

If I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their trust (faith) in Him.

But the religious want to make a show that they do not sin any longer.

Now if you wish to say that I should have told him I no longer sinned in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today.

 

[goodshepard55]

Richard...sad story but so true in what people are told...I have this friend that told her family member, that to belong to Christ she would have to stop smoking and drinking more than wine...What a load of bull...Jesus is very capable in changing us from the moment we accept Him...He will change us...for we sure can't change ourselves....We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God....the Word tells us just that..we are sinless only in Christ....

 

[Thankful 1]

First of all, I am not upset with anyone. You can believe what ever you wish.

Second, do you really think your flesh becomes sinless and enters into heaven?

Your teaching that a person must become sinless in the flesh in order to get into heaven shuts the door on those who realize that they need Jesus' blood to cover their sins everyday, everyhour. It leads to a theology of becoming good to get into heaven.

Let me show you how your religious theology affects many.

It has been my lot to find out, first hand, the results of those that teach sinless perfection in the flesh. How it causes many to turn away from Jesus.

A tragic story:

When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.

It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him. It did not seem to change him.

I found that he had been talking to some Christians that were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning. He wanted to stop sinning but he said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it in your mind. He wanted to know what I believed about it.

I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves; to do for them what they could not do, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to trust that it has saved you.

I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.

It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of the self-righteous does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. They don't go in themselves (because they still sin too) and they prevent others that would go in from doing so, all because they want to see themselves as better, and more righteous, than others.

Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(NKJ)

If I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their trust (faith) in Him.

But the religious want to make a show that they do not sin any longer.

Now if you wish to say that I should have told him I no longer sinned in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today.

Wake up! If one deliberately commits sin, he or she does not know God.



Those who delude themselves and others, with the notion that, God does not care if one sins or not, are just blind.



How many of you sinners can honestly say that Jesus has called you by name and is leading you? How many of you can say that the fruits you produce, because of your relationship with Jesus, are good?



To withstand Satan/sin one needs a very close relationship with Jesus, and such a person will bear much good fruit.



Sinners will not be in the Kingdom of God.

 

[Angelina]

Richard...sad story but so true in what people are told...I have this friend that told her family member, that to belong to Christ she would have to stop smoking and drinking more than wine...What a load of bull...Jesus is very capable in changing us from the moment we accept Him...He will change us...for we sure can't change ourselves....We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God....the Word tells us just that..we are sinless only in Christ....

Amen dear sister!

Blessings in Yeshua!

 

[RichardBurger]

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt 25: 41-46

Did not feed.
Did not give drink.
Did not visit.
Did not clothe.

They are being condemned for all eternity for what they did not DO. Sure SOUNDS like Jesus expects "WORKS."

Like all that teach works, you mis-use the scriptures because you are wanting to support your own idea. The Sheep and Goat judgement is a judgement on the Gentile world concerning how they, the Gentiles, treated the Jews during the 7 year tribulation. Those that teach otherwise want to use this as a judgement on Christians under grace. They fail to acknowledge that those "IN CHRIST" were judged as sinless when the were born again and placed "IN CHRIST" by the Holy Spirit.

Meaning that if she became a Christian after Jesus died for her sins, she would not have to worry about continuing to commit that sin because she has a default "forgiven" status whether she choses to stop sinning or not?

Are you jealous that someone who sins in the flesh and does not work can go to heaven while you think you must work? I think Jesus told a story about those who were dissatified because those that came late got the same pay as they did.

-- Good for you. But my understanding was that this thread wasn't about you.

You made it about US when you replied.

Simple fact: If a Christian allows a sin to contiue in their lives, not addressing it as God requires, they can indeed die in their sin.

When a person places ALL their faith, trust, and confidence in the blood of Jesus Christ to cover their sins it is obvious to me they are doing it for a reason, and that reason is that they know they sin everyday. Repentance is not a ritual.

Wake up! If one deliberately commits sin, he or she does not know God.



Those who delude themselves and others, with the notion that, God does not care if one sins or not, are just blind.



How many of you sinners can honestly say that Jesus has called you by name and is leading you? How many of you can say that the fruits you produce, because of your relationship with Jesus, are good?



To withstand Satan/sin one needs a very close relationship with Jesus, and such a person will bear much good fruit.



Sinners will not be in the Kingdom of God.

To the religious bearing fruit is being good and not sinning. What foolishness, everyone knows, in their hearts, that they still sin.

The fruit we are to bear is more children of God. That will not happen if our witness is just about becoming good. We are to teach the gospel of Grace, that God has made away for everone to be saved and it has nothing to do with people becoming good enough IN THE FLESH. (see Gal 3)

Richard...sad story but so true in what people are told...I have this friend that told her family member, that to belong to Christ she would have to stop smoking and drinking more than wine...What a load of bull...Jesus is very capable in changing us from the moment we accept Him...He will change us...for we sure can't change ourselves....We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God....the Word tells us just that..we are sinless only in Christ....

The forum could use more from you. Thanks

 

[Angelina]

Well I do not know about anyone else but if I were to go out every day and get myself all filthy and dirty, I would sure take a wash/ bath or shower every day. Same goes for repentance because we can sin just by being angry with someone that day, or for thinking unwholesome things about others or we can hurt someone with our words. If the Lord reveals these things to me...I ain't gonna rely on the fact that I have been washed from past sin at salvation...I'm gonna repent for the here and now... JMO.

Be blessed!

 

[Duckybill]

Sinners will not be in the Kingdom of God.

How about the self righteous?

Luke 18:11-14 (ESV)
[sup]11 [/sup]The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. [sup]12 [/sup]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ [sup]13 [/sup]But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [sup]14 [/sup]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Thankful 1]

(Hebrews10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we shoulddeliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice forthem. There is left only the dreadfulprospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to deathon the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone whotramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant whichsanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace,will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I willvindicate his people. It is a dreadfulthing to fall into the hands of the living God.”



(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin;anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him orknown Him.”



You all believe the Bible is the Word of God, yet the Word tells us that those who sin have never known God. How can one be saved if he or she has never known God?



(Matthew 5:27-30) “You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better foryou to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown intohell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

[goodshepard55]

Well I do not know about anyone else but if I were to go out every day and get myself all filthy and dirty, I would sure take a wash/ bath or shower every day. Same goes for repentance because we can sin just by being angry with someone that day, or for thinking unwholesome things about others or we can hurt someone with our words. If the Lord reveals these things to me...I ain't gonna rely on the fact that I have been washed from past sin at salvation...I'm gonna repent for the here and now... JMO.

Be blessed!

Mercy......I do love to be clean...Darling you hit the nail on the head with that...Works do not get us into the kingdom of God...We do works because God has appointed us to do so..We can sit in a chair and worship God all day and talk with Him and we will get to heaven...He does not care about works..He cares about relationships...with Him and others....

 

[Duckybill]

You all believe the Bible is the Word of God, yet the Word tells us that those who sin have never known God. How can one be saved if he or she has never known God?

Luke 18:11-14 (ESV)[sup]13 [/sup]But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [sup]14 [/sup]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other.

 

[Rach1370]

First of all, I am not upset with anyone. You can believe what ever you wish.

Second, do you really think your flesh becomes sinless and enters into heaven?

Your teaching that a person must become sinless in the flesh in order to get into heaven shuts the door on those who realize that they need Jesus' blood to cover their sins everyday, everyhour. It leads to a theology of becoming good to get into heaven.

Let me show you how your religious theology affects many.

It has been my lot to find out, first hand, the results of those that teach sinless perfection in the flesh. How it causes many to turn away from Jesus.

A tragic story:

When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.

It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him. It did not seem to change him.

I found that he had been talking to some Christians that were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning. He wanted to stop sinning but he said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it in your mind. He wanted to know what I believed about it.

I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves; to do for them what they could not do, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to trust that it has saved you.

I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.

It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of the self-righteous does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. They don't go in themselves (because they still sin too) and they prevent others that would go in from doing so, all because they want to see themselves as better, and more righteous, than others.

Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(NKJ)

If I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their trust (faith) in Him.

But the religious want to make a show that they do not sin any longer.

Now if you wish to say that I should have told him I no longer sinned in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today.

Hey Richard! So glad I read further! Your OP made it sound like you thought no one sinned...at all!!!
This post of yours was great, and I agree so much with it. Too many people think either: being slaves no longer to sin means we don't sin at all....or that one must be completely free of sin to enter the Kingdom of God. We are told that when we die we put off the corruptible, the perishable...the sinful. That says pretty loud that we remain sinners right up until the very end...despite our life long battle against it!
That poor man. I bet those religious weenies (as Robbie calls them!) didn't even feel bad, they probably felt it was evidence of his sinful nature. Well, if his true desire was for God, I very much hope he is now in God's arms, and those religious people will feel conviction.

Wake up! If one deliberately commits sin, he or she does not know God.
Those who delude themselves and others, with the notion that, God does not care if one sins or not, are just blind.
How many of you sinners can honestly say that Jesus has called you by name and is leading you? How many of you can say that the fruits you produce, because of your relationship with Jesus, are good?
To withstand Satan/sin one needs a very close relationship with Jesus, and such a person will bear much good fruit.
Sinners will not be in the Kingdom of God.

When you read Richard's post, did you perhaps think 'moron' to yourself? Your reply sounds very much like you might have. That's a sin, you know. But that's okay...you're only human. Jesus loves you and calls you to repent. Pride is a sin too, as well as self righteousness. Honestly, that's what shouts out from this post. If you truly think someone is in error, doesn't the Bible tell us to correct with love, patience and kindness? Just something to think and pray on.
And no, sinners will not be in the Kingdom of God...when we die we loose our fleshly and sinful bodies/nature. We put on the clean and incorruptible. It's only then that we will be perfect. Man, I look forward to that day!!

 

[jiggyfly]

Anyone here familiar with the term "justified" and what it means?

 

[Thankful 1]

Mercy......I do love to be clean...Darling you hit the nail on the head with that...Works do not get us into the kingdom of God...We do works because God has appointed us to do so..We can sit in a chair and worship God all day and talk with Him and we will get to heaven...He does not care about works..He cares about relationships...with Him and others....

You keep on believing that works will not get one to the Kingdom of God,but you better know the evil deeds/sin will never allow one to enter theKingdom of God.




(Matthew 25:31-46)"Whenthe Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit onhis throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, andhe will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheepfrom the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the Kingwill say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; takeyour inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gaveme something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothesand you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and youcame to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did wesee you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? Whendid we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see yousick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King willreply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of thesebrothers of mine, you did for me.'"Then he will say to those on his left,'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for thedevil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I wasthirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did notinvite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and inprison and you did not look after me.'

"They also willanswer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needingclothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'Itell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, youdid not do for me.'

"Then they will goaway to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[IanLC]

First of all, I am not upset with anyone. You can believe what ever you wish.

Second, do you really think your flesh becomes sinless and enters into heaven?

Your teaching that a person must become sinless in the flesh in order to get into heaven shuts the door on those who realize that they need Jesus' blood to cover their sins everyday, everyhour. It leads to a theology of becoming good to get into heaven.

Let me show you how your religious theology affects many.

It has been my lot to find out, first hand, the results of those that teach sinless perfection in the flesh. How it causes many to turn away from Jesus.

A tragic story:

When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.

It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him. It did not seem to change him.

I found that he had been talking to some Christians that were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning. He wanted to stop sinning but he said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it in your mind. He wanted to know what I believed about it.

I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves; to do for them what they could not do, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to trust that it has saved you.

I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.

It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of the self-righteous does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. They don't go in themselves (because they still sin too) and they prevent others that would go in from doing so, all because they want to see themselves as better, and more righteous, than others.

Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(NKJ)

If I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their trust (faith) in Him.

But the religious want to make a show that they do not sin any longer.

Now if you wish to say that I should have told him I no longer sinned in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today.

Where are you coming from? I did not say that I was sinless or anyone else is! I am saying that God wants us to strive to live like Him! He wants us to become as Christ! Christ lived a holy and righteous life! We are commaned aswell to live holy and righteous! What is wrong with someone striving to live holy before God? Doing what he commands? Im not judging anyone else telling them to live holy! It is my personal conviction and what I am taught that God wants his people saved by grace to live holy. Holiness does not mean that you do not sin it simply means you are set apart by God. You want to become like him in love of him.

 

[RichardBurger]

What is wrong with you? I did not say that I was sinless or anyone else is! I am saying that God wants us to strive to live like Him! He wants us to become as Christ! Christ lived a holy and righteous life! We are commaned aswell to live holy and righteous!

That is a contradiction. You say we are commanded to live holy and righteous and then say you didn't say we are to be sinless. That is a contradiction when you think about it.

You can only live as HOLY "IN CHRIST". Not that we, in the flesh live Holy in Christ but that when we were placed "IN HIM" by the Holy Spirit we were made Holy in the Spirit, not the flesh. Have you read Gal.3?

 

[Rach1370]

Anyone here familiar with the term "justified" and what it means?

So, you were probably being rhetorical...but just in case!

Justification is where the righteousness of Jesus is given to you. (accomplished in an instant by Christ!)

Sanctification is the process of being made holy through the merits and justification of Jesus Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit. (the work of a life time!)

Glorification is final salvation. That point where you receive your new body and are finally with Christ. (What we all long and aim for!)

 

[Thankful 1]

That is a contradiction. You say we are commanded to live holy and righteous and then say you didn't say we are to be sinless. That is a contradiction when you think about it.

You can only live as HOLY "IN CHRIST". Not that we, in the flesh live Holy in Christ but that when we were placed "IN HIM" by the Holy Spirit we were made Holy in the Spirit, not the flesh. Have you read Gal.3?

Do you really think that our spirits and bodies are separate from one another? Don’t you realize that we will get a new body after this one dies? How else could the apostles drink the new wine with Jesus in Heaven?



You want to believe that one’s body is to take all the blame for sin?



What a cop out, that thinking is.



Jesus, I did not do any thing wrong that was just my body; it did not belong to my spirit. I really feel sorry for those who have to face God with that excuse.

 

[Rach1370]

Do you really think that our spirits and bodies are separate from one another? Don’t you realize that we will get a new body after this one dies? How else could the apostles drink the new wine with Jesus in Heaven?
You want to believe that one’s body is to take all the blame for sin?
What a cop out, that thinking is.
Jesus, I did not do any thing wrong that was just my body; it did not belong to my spirit. I really feel sorry for those who have to face God with that excuse.

So, hang on. Let me just get this straight.

You believe that our body/spirit are one and if we sin, all of us is responsible? (I agree)

You believe that a Christian who sins will forfeit their salvation, because a Christian who is a true Christian won't sin. (makes me wonder why they bothered to put all those verses in the Bible about Christians striving not to sin, repenting of sin and encouraging brothers and sisters in Christ not to sin, to put that nature to death every day...which kinda implies it's a constant battle with something every present)

If you believe that a true Christian doesn't sin, and that you are claiming to be a Christian, are you then claiming to be perfect? blink

Because you can't have it both ways. Either you are perfect...which is ridiculous and against the Bible in SO many ways I can't count...only Christ is perfect. Or you still sin despite doing your best not to, which would make you exactly the same as all the people you have been laying the boot to. Which way is it??

 

[Thankful 1]

So, hang on. Let me just get this straight.

You believe that our body/spirit are one and if we sin, all of us is responsible? (I agree)

You believe that a Christian who sins will forfeit their salvation, because a Christian who is a true Christian won't sin. (makes me wonder why they bothered to put all those verses in the Bible about Christians striving not to sin, repenting of sin and encouraging brothers and sisters in Christ not to sin, to put that nature to death every day...which kinda implies it's a constant battle with something every present)

If you believe that a true Christian doesn't sin, and that you are claiming to be a Christian, are you then claiming to be perfect? blink

Because you can't have it both ways. Either you are perfect...which is ridiculous and against the Bible in SO many ways I can't count...only Christ is perfect. Or you still sin despite doing your best not to, which would make you exactly the same as all the people you have been laying the boot to. Which way is it??

All people want to read and accept are the verses that refer to those who are at best baby Christians. Those people will continue to sin. Why does everyone want to find and excuse to sin instead of discovering how to become perfect as Jesus called Christians to be?



(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people?”





(Romans 6:2-4) “How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.”

 

[Duckybill]

T1 has greatly confused 'committing a sin' and 'living in sin'. Anyone who professes to have lived for 30 years without committing a sin is too busy looking at others' sins to see his own. That's self-righteousness, which is a sin.