Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

[Ferris Bueller]

Obviously we can’t convince each other any further because you think the church fathers are a waste of space.

I can't respect anyone as a church leader who thinks that kind of trash about women. That junk did not come from the Spirit of God. That came out of their own heads. That's why I call them 'Spiritless'.

 

[GaryAnderson]

I don't think Grailhunter was in agreement with what the church fathers posted about women.

Well he said that they were “good people” and you said that they were “spiritless”. So, this is where we disagree.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well he said that they were “good people” and you said that they were “spiritless”. So, this is where we disagree.

How can a 'good' person have such disdain for women????

 

[GaryAnderson]

How can a 'good' person have such disdain for women????

Who are you to call people spiritless first of all? Sounds like you’re taking an extremist position so let’s agree to disagree.

 

[Grailhunter]

Sometimes you seem to know the scriptures well. Other times not so much...

"14So I advise the younger widows to marry, have children, and manage their households, denying the adversary occasion for slander. " 1 Timothy 5:14

"5For this is how the holy women of the past adorned themselves. They put their hope in God and were submissive to their husbands, 6just as Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. And you are her children if you do what is right..." 1 Peter 3:5-6
​

I thought you would be one that knows that the feminist movement is not from God, lol.

The feminist movement is not from God...and is not biblical.
The abolishment of slavery, is not from God....and is not biblical.
The abolishment of polygamy, is not from God....and is not biblical.
The abolishment of sex slavery, is not from God....and is not biblical.
The custom of wedding ceremonies, is not from God....and is not biblical.
A woman's right to pick her husband, is not from God....and is not biblical.
Education, is not from God....and is not biblical....
Technology, is not from God....and is not biblical....

What' cha think.....Trade in the Ford for a pair sandals....and we go down and buy us some little girls?

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't think Grailhunter was in agreement with what the church fathers posted about women.

Ya they were messed up.

 

[JohnPaul]

Sadly, divorce and remarriage is regarded like a roulette wheel at Las Vegas (and indeed divorces in Vegas seem to come as easily as spinning a roulette wheel....).

Not only in Vegas, across the country, here in Jersey too, you can file for a divorce while buying a pair of shoes.

 

[Taken]

Two seniors in their 70's one widowed one divorced love each other. They decide to move in together. They have no desire to get married this late in life. They have separate bedrooms, no sexual relations, no joint bank accounts but truly love each other and for the most part are viewed as in a relationship.

Are they living in sin?

Maybe.
Being Freed from Sin, all hangs on Being Converted and Born Again IN Christ.
IOW, it doesn’t matter who a person shares a home with that determines IF they are living IN Sin.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JohnPaul]

Maybe.
Being Freed from Sin, all hangs on Being Converted and Born Again IN Christ.
IOW, it doesn’t matter who a person shares a home with that determines IF they are living IN Sin.

Glory to God,
Taken

Unless they are homosexuals and all the other stuff that goes with LGTB.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I thought you would be one that knows that the feminist movement is not from God, lol.

The feminist movement is not from God...and is not biblical.
The abolishment of slavery, is not from God....and is not biblical.
The abolishment of polygamy, is not from God....and is not biblical.
The abolishment of sex slavery, is not from God....and is not biblical.
The custom of wedding ceremonies, is not from God....and is not biblical.
A woman's right to pick her husband, is not from God....and is not biblical.
Education, is not from God....and is not biblical....
Technology, is not from God....and is not biblical....

Is this an attempt to make the feminist movement okay?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

IOW, it doesn’t matter who a person shares a home with that determines IF they are living IN Sin.

Assuming there is no sin occurring in the home, what it looks like to outsiders is what determines if it's a sin.
Romans 14.

 

[JohnPaul]

Is this an attempt to make the feminist movement okay?

Feminist movement is not okay.

 

[Taken]

Unless they are homosexuals and all the other stuff that goes with LGTB.

Can’t say, because there was Zero indication of such description to consider.

 

[JohnPaul]

Can’t say, because there was Zero indication of such description to consider.

Where was there zero indication to consider?

 

[Taken]

Assuming there is no sin occurring in the home, what it looks like to outsiders is what determines if it's a sin.
Romans 14.

Nothing wrong with “RIGHTLY JUDGING”.
Rightly Judging requires “Correct Facts”.
From the “outside”, I have known of people living under the same roof, same house, different genders, different ages, blood related, not blood related, and that gives me NO facts of what “occurs” Inside of that house to RIGHTLY JUDGE, simply because I know multiple genders of people reside that house.

What Appears, “looks like” to an “outsider”, is guess work.
Sin is determined BY an individual being AGAINST (aka WITHOUT God).
How one KNOWS, IF an other IS AGAINST God, IS the OTHERS own WORD, and WORKS that Advocates for An OTHER to Stand AGAINST God.

 

[amigo de christo]

Sex is not a sin but in the world today there is so much more pressure to concentrate on the physical aspect of a relationship right from the beginning rather than slowly getting to know one another before the first bedroom encounter. And after a while they will split up and move on to the next partner. I don’t like this way of things and I suspect God doesn’t either but for those who are not Christians it is the norm and probably among some believers also.

I personally think that full commitment to each other is the most important thing in a relationship; far more important than whether you have been ‘married’ legally or not. To me marriage is the joining or the coming together of a man and a woman who commit to each other exclusively and I believe that a couple are ‘married’ in the eyes of God once they have made this personal contract with each other.

I think too much emphasis may be placed today on fancy and costly weddings – which were an invention of the church - rather than on cementing partnerships and making sure of a solid foundation for the marriage. Even between Christians a marriage can become shaky and unsteady but at least we have the Holy Spirit to help us in those difficult times, but even then divorce occurs.

Marriage ought to be simple .
Fornication is sin . Sex outside of marriage is fornication .
Paul made that abundantely clear .
Weddings sure can be much simplier and much less costly .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What Appears, “looks like” to an “outsider”, is guess work.
Sin is determined BY an individual being AGAINST (aka WITHOUT God).

Sin in this case is determined by if the couple living together causes someone who thinks that's not allowed to sin.

21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything to cause your brother to stumble.
15 If your brother is distressed by what you eat (or anything else), you are no longer acting in love (you're sinning). Do not by your eating destroy your brother, for whom Christ died.
18 For whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
Romans 14:15-21​

We are to serve Christ and do what's pleasing to God by not indulging freedoms that may cause another weaker person to stumble and sin against their convictions. That's how we're supposed to serve Christ and please God. This is serious business. We're sinning and not pleasing to God if we don't care how the exercise of our freedoms may affect other people.

 

[Grailhunter]

Is this an attempt to make the feminist movement okay?

Well, besides the dry humor....it has a point.
Keep in mind your mom is / was a female.....a human too.
Fundamentalists are not usually historians. Which means more or less going back to the Bible...scriptures....written in a different time period. But not knowing what is going on in that time period. So what happens is they read it living in this time period and reading the words like it was the latest edition of the local Sunday paper and making a lot of assumptions. Which leads to a lot of misunderstandings. Thinking that everything that Christianity understands now...and the values now...was going on then. And by the methodology of fundamentalism, there is nothing different that can be revealed by God.

Change is a constant, even within the Bible and that did not stop. But that is something that fundamentalists have a problem with. Beliefs....Truths....Facts.... Belief is a mind set that can run over the scriptures, like they were not even there. Christ can set the example with women, that He defended them at every turn and counted on them. Paul can say that with God there is no difference between male or female and also counted on them. Christ could tell His apostles that, I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. And still people cannot get passed preset beliefs to understand that there were things yet to learn.

It is a fact that things have changed and Christianity has added higher morals in significant areas. Again change is a constant. Abraham's covenant with Yahweh, was a change. The advent of the Mosaic Law was a change in morality. Christ was a change in morality...the Gospel that the Apostles taught was a change. The ministry of Paul was a change.

So after the biblical era...as time went on Christians eventually understood that the Old Testament relationships between men and women were not an expression of the Christian spirit or Christian love....not an expression of Christ. Bumper stickers; What would Christ do? How would Christ vote? Did Christ ever agree with selling your daughter as a sex slave? Did you think that Christ would think it is a good thing that a lady would not have a choice of who they married? Do you think that Christ ever believed that slavery was good or fair?

Where does this new knowledge of morality come from? You can turn the TV on and watch Christian shows that are about the focus on the family....That is not a New Testament message. The Church made marriage a sacrament....the sanctity of marriage. The Protestants added to the Bible requiring that weddings were required for marriages....accumulative....because that comes from the customs of the Gentiles. Weddings should have been required all along, but it was something that we learnt.

The fear of females and misogyny goes back a long ways and it drips with blood and misery. That was not Christ's attitude toward women and should not be ours. It is good to know the scriptures but the meat of it all is the understanding of the Spirit of Christ and of Christianity. What would Christ do? If you think that Christ's spirit is about slavery or the second rate status of women, then you do not know Christ.

And focus on the family is a big part of Christianity. Children should be raised in loving Christian homes, a phrase that you will not find in the Bible. So we have learnt and we continue to learn....but much to learn. Women should be equal members in the Church.
But who is teaching us all this? I believe it is the Holy Spirit. Depending on the translation the Holy Spirit is refereed to as the advocate, the helper, the councilor, or the comforter. John 14:26

But I believe that the Holy Spirit is a teacher that transcends the Bible. The Holy Spirit can be the mouth piece of God. Whether it be Pentecost or those that speck in tongues or when the Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts or minds. We fellowship with the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:33, Acts 2:34, Acts 2:38, Acts 4:31, Acts 5:32, Acts 10:47, Acts 11:15, Acts 13:2, Acts 19:5-6, Matthew 1:18, Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:35, Luke 12:12, Romans 5:5, Jude 1:20-21, 1st Corinthians 2:10-13, Mark 13:11, Titus 3:5, 1st John 2:20, 1st John 2:27

In a world of changes we need the Holy Spirit to discern between what changes are of God and which ones are not. And ultimately it is about the character and Spirit of Christ.

 

[Pearl]

Marriage ought to be simple .
Fornication is sin . Sex outside of marriage is fornication .
Paul made that abundantely clear .
Weddings sure can be much simplier and much less costly .

I believe that biblical marriage was very different to how we might define it today. What we call marriage was invented by the (Roman) church in order to have more control over the lives of the people. To marry means to join - male and female.

In the UK it is only the Anglican church whose clergy can legally marry a couple. All other denominations need a registrar present. At my church somebody became a registrar so that weddings could be carried out.

Marriage is a subject that gets Christians hot under the collar. I knew lady once who thought sex was the biggest sin ever and the church's interference has made it a dirty word.

If a man and a woman are exclusively committed to each other I wouldn't call that fornication. And believe that they are married in God's eyes even if not in the eyes of some Christians.

 

[JohnPaul]

I believe that biblical marriage was very different to how we might define it today. What we call marriage was invented by the (Roman) church in order to have more control over the lives of the people. To marry means to join - male and female.

In the UK it is only the Anglican church whose clergy can legally marry a couple. All other denominations need a registrar present. At my church somebody became a registrar so that weddings could be carried out.

Marriage is a subject that gets Christians hot under the collar. I knew lady once who thought sex was the biggest sin ever and the church's interference has made it a dirty word.

If a man and a woman are exclusively committed to each other I wouldn't call that fornication. And believe that they are married in God's eyes even if not in the eyes of some Christians.

Amen sister, I couldn’t have said it better myself.