HERESY?

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bbyrd009

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Oh, you are right. There is the calling of the unbeliever. He can hear little or nothing else good, but he can hear that call. Once he has really answered and gets on the milk diet then he needs to grow toward the mature child of God, the one who is able to partake of and properly digest the meat of the Word of God.
14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil

ya, get to training them senses! ha Paul is such a mensch
 
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amadeus

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14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil

ya, get to training them senses! ha Paul is such a mensch
Gumming and then swallowing even a very tender chunk of meat is at least difficult if not impossible and dangerous.

Was für ein Mensch bist du?
 

amadeus

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Of course I see the difference.
But we don't believe that the host become the body and blood of Christ so the bar is lower... or is it higher??
Less is expected in a protestant church of the person that is going to receive communion.
This is the difference.
Less is expected by whom? Ultimately do the expectations of anyone but God matter? This is why no man is given the job of sifting through people and deciding which ones will be finally saved and which ones will not!

Of course, as I see it OSAS flies in the face of this. Most people who speak of themselves as being saved, do not know that according to God they will also endure to the end with Him.
 

GodsGrace

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Less is expected by whom? Ultimately do the expectations of anyone but God matter? This is why no man is given the job of sifting through people and deciding which ones will be finally saved and which ones will not!

Of course, as I see it OSAS flies in the face of this. Most people who speak of themselves as being saved, do not know that according to God they will also endure to the end with Him.
Hi Amadeus
Believing that the Communion is a REMEMBRANCE of the death of Christ is
less than believing that the host becomes the Body and Blood of Christ.

So, it is OK for a Catholic to receive in a Protestant church, although he really shouldn't since he does not believe in the bread being the remembrance only....but a Protestant should not receive in a Catholic church because he does not believe in transubstantiation.

IOW...transubstantiation requires a higher level of belief in what communion represents.
 
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GodsGrace

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man, same as it ever was i guess, huh?
how do we know that for sure btw, never heard that
You know bb...all those scholars that study the bible and its history for years and years know many things.
There's a series on YouTube about the 7 Churches in Revelation.
You may or may not remember that I don't even know the book of Revelation very well, but I'm learning such interesting
facts.

Can't ever know too much...even though a person could know nothing at all and still be blessed by the Holy Spirit.
 

GodsGrace

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An Appeal to Strawman is a logical fallacy where one re-states his opponents argument in weaker terms - then attacks that weaker argument. The metaphor is like fighting with a scare crow rather than an actual man.

To be a Christian does NOT mean you believe he is God. To be a Christian is to follow Christ.

This is how we use language. Other examples: Aristotlean, Reaganesque, Trumpster are all terms where people follow the ideas of the man. In no case, do the followers of the man believe he is God. Hence, Christ followers are not called Godian.

Trinitarians usurp the term Christian and want it to mean Godian, demanding one believe a man is God.
Wrangler, I'm not going to go back and restate what I said.
I'm more than sure you didn't catch my drift.
I don't have time to fight with scarecrows.
I don't have time to fight.

And thanks for the language lesson...
Is that a strawman, BTW?

It was decided by others, not me, what constitutes a Christian.
Not only does it mean a follower of Christ...thus ChristIAN...
It means that person believes Jesus is God in the flesh.
A Christian is supposed to believe in the Trinity.
And that Jesus always existed.
That He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
That each person of the Trinity has their own work to accomplish.
That Jesus died and was resurrected.
And some other items I can't recall right now.

You may not agree with one of the above.
This is between you and God...He is a merciful God and will be happy that you're following Him, however that may be.

I repeat: This is why I stated that I NEVER say someone is not saved because they don't agree with the above list.
This is for God to know, not me or anyone else on this board.

And again, I repeat: Christianity MUST have a definition, or it will lose all meaning.
We're not allowed to change the definition after it has been in use for 2,000 years.
 

GodsGrace

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I think @Wrangler's point is that a Christian is a disciple of Christ, versus a particular human teacher/denomination.
Then that's what he should have said.
To me it sounded as if he was saying that he doesn't believe Jesus is God...
He said: thus we are NOT Godians....
 
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GodsGrace

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Feel free to ask me any time. I'm super hard to offend and have ZERO desire of proselytizing in any type.
You sound like a sister!

I should study mormonism sometime...but there's so much to know in just plain Christianity.
What I'd like to know is WHY some say that the mormons are not Christian.

Could you check the list in my post no. 189 to Wrangler and tell me what you don't agree with?
 

GodsGrace

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Mixtures resulting from people who have received the Spirit of God only then to regularly quench the Spirit received and to follow the ways of their own carnal minds or the ways of some other carnal man or men.

Apostle Paul warned against this here:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

And all of us probably have done it. The churches teach people to do it when they set up their own rules and traditions to worship and conduct meetings called services or masses. Is God leading or are men leading?


Is God incompetent? Some people treat Him that way when they make their hard and fast rules about who can do what and when...
Amadeus,
We have differing doctrine in different denominations - or even just different ideas.
I don't think this comes about by sinning, does it??

How does not doing something a church states become a sin?
Like what for instance?
Do you mean like the CC states that missing Mass is a mortal sin?
 

GodsGrace

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Born Again, is regarding the “spirit of man”, and part of Conversion IN Christ.
Converted “IN” Christ, is expressly concerning:
Forgiveness of sin, covering of sin, freeing from sin, the Body, the soul,
the spirit, sanctification, justification, preservation, forever with the Lord God.

Believer, indicates who one believes, but (who is NOT Converted).

Jesus used the term “Converted”, which is all Encompassing of the free will “confession” of the individual and the Lord Gods Works of “changing” the individual.

Glory to God,
Taken
Where did Jesus use the word CONVERTED?

And what do you mean by COVERING OF SIN? (highlighted above).
 

GodsGrace

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Orthodox....IS long standing.
Heretic is a person, Heresy is teaching against a Long standing tradition.
True, I do not agree with a host of things Catholics preach and teach.
Yes, it has occurred on many occasions on this forum of Catholics calling non-Catholics “heretics”.
That's rather unfortunate.
Since we believe in the same God...no matter how our doctrines might differ.
 
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GodsGrace

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Thanks for your honest appraisal.

"Who can we trust?"
We can trust in the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us into all truth. John 16:13.

For the Apostles, we DO KNOW that they did HAVE the Lord's Holy Spirit and were led by Him, but as for the "early church fathers", not so much.
Though I have read some of their writings, I am no historical authority in the slightest. From what I percieve of them, they were theologins and intellectuals of the early church. By and large, they were mostly Religionists, applying their natural intellect and wills into what would be the correct and universal way Christians should worship God as a body of believers, thus establishing "traditions" of worship.

Most of their beliefs primarily were centered around Rome and the Catholic church.
Dogmas and "creeds", such as the Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed, are still used by the Catholic church and main line Protestant churches, which were derived by "the early church fathers".
I do not hold the "early church fathers" in any high regard as many do.
I would have agreed with you 20 years ago.
But I've come to understand that the ECFs were taught by the Apostles...
and then THEY taught others, and so forth.
There was no internet or TV or newspapers back then so it took a really long time to spread Christian beliefs...
as it happened, you're right in that teachings started to change, but this did not happen till at least the late 3rd or 4th century.

I'd say that those closest to the Apostles knew what the Apostles were teaching at the beginning when they were travelling and teaching as Jesus had told them to do...Matthew 28:19.

It became a mess after the church aligned itself with states.
Men are sinful...
 
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GodsGrace

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Matt 13:15
Matt 18:3
Luke 22:32
John 12:40
Acts 3:19



Rom 4:7
1 Pet 4:8
Could only "see" 2 verses Taken.
I meant did Jesus actually use the term CONVERTED?
I can't remember.

Too late here...catch you tomorrow when I can look them up...
 

amadeus

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Hi Amadeus
Believing that the Communion is a REMEMBRANCE of the death of Christ is
less than believing that the host becomes the Body and Blood of Christ.

So, it is OK for a Catholic to receive in a Protestant church, although he really shouldn't since he does not believe in the bread being the remembrance only....but a Protestant should not receive in a Catholic church because he does not believe in transubstantiation.

IOW...transubstantiation requires a higher level of belief in what communion represents.
I guess I would be considered a heretic in most places, Catholic or Protestant, as I do not practice or participate in Communion with anyone using bread of grains or juice/wine of grapes. I see those as types or shadows of the Reality... the Reality being in partaking rather of the Word and the Spirit that is the Flesh and the Blood of Jesus. That is as in reading the Scriptures and having them quickened by the Holy Spirit. I don't see practicing the rituals as being wrong, but unnecessary if a person is partaking of the Reality!
 

GodsGrace

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I guess I would be considered a heretic in most places, Catholic or Protestant, as I do not practice or participate in Communion with anyone using bread of grains or juice/wine of grapes. I see those as types or shadows of the Reality... the Reality being in partaking rather of the Word and the Spirit that is the Flesh and the Blood of Jesus. That is as in reading the Scriptures and having them quickened by the Holy Spirit. I don't see practicing the rituals as being wrong, but unnecessary if a person is partaking of the Reality!
Jesus said DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME.
I'm not saying you're a heretic but I'm asking what you think Jesus meant by this...
Thanks.
 
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