HERESY?

[MatthewG]

Did you know the word for acknowledgement - profess - confess is Homologeo - in Romans 10:8-11 or so. The Heart and Mouth are to be the same, Homologeo.

That means if you are a true believing in the heart christian, in times where you are going to share the Gospel or something about Jesus you will be sharing by and through grace in faith of the Lord Jesus Christ by the holy spirit.

As Christians today I believe it is good always to speak to others in truth and love by and through the spirit. Also however even allowing the other individual to make their own decision.

God bless you and take care,
Matthew G.

 

[amadeus]

On this forum? There are MANY views I found downright anti-Biblical posted here, such as using humans to declare who's in God's kingdom. I acknowledge that, I talk to people about different topics respectfully, and almost always the conversation ends with no one changing their views. And that's that. It's not my job to go and burn the heretic at the stake

We really may simply not know that a person has had a tiny seed planted in him and eventually as a result come to the truth on that point. Sometimes God does shows us any good results wrought through us... but quite often in this natural life anyway, we may not see it.

I believe that sometime happens here too, but seldom do we witness a testimony of favorable change.

Some people, however, [or so it seems to me] like to burn people at the stake [symbolically/figuratively]. Will the time come in our nation where they will physically do it?

 

[GodsGrace]

I was raised RCC. Protestants were not allowed to even share communion and that was put in writing in every pew. The reason was the Protestants heretical view of not acknowledging the RCC as our mediator to Christ.

Maybe they are not advertising that these days but I doubt they changed their policy.

Protestants are not allowed to receive communion in Catholic churches because they do not believe in transubstantiation.
Communion is a sacrament and those that do not hold to this belief really should not receive communion because it is something done IN COMMUNION.

 

[GodsGrace]

I respect Steve Ciocalanti. His point was to reserve the inflammatory word usage for what really matters. Otherwise, every denomination is a heretic to ones own and such language is not conducive to unity.



Yes, absolutely. It makes them heretical by definition.

When my former pastor's husband died, she talked about her husband being with the Lord since he's absent from the body. At the same time, she acknowledged there are those - like me - who hold to soul sleep. Either way, it is not a major theme in sermon's, etc at the church.

I'd have to say that Steve Ciocalanti (those that desire chocolate) is correct in that if we use the term too much, it becomes meaningless.

I don't believe an entire church and its theology can be considered heretical because one teaching is incorrect.
What if a church agrees with everything you would, but they believe in pre-trib. Would this make them heretical?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yea, the "supported" by Scripture is not the same thing as an explicit teaching. One leader called explicit teachings "dogma" and denominational "doctrine" as that which is merely "supported."

An example of dogma, explicit teaching in Scripture is that man was created on the 6th day.

An example of doctrine not explicitly found in Scripture is the trinity. I know this is controversial and some here have even asserted it as the central message of Scripture. Others have told me you cannot be saved or even be a Christian without accepting the trinity. None of this is in Scripture. In fact, it contradicts Scripture, which says 'For us there is one God, the Father.' Trinitarianism is, therefore, an incorrect teaching.

There is no verse in Scripture that says anything like, "The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the F, S & HS who are co-substantial, co-eternal and co-equal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but will be damned to hell forever."

I'm certainly not going to discuss the Trinity here.
BTW,,,I don't believe the earth was created in 6 days.
Am I a heretic??

I will say that the three persons are spoken of.
God Father
The Son
The Spirit

It took a long time for the early church to put all that information together and come up with the Trinity.
It had to be shown that Jesus was God...otherwise we'd be worshipping a man.

 

[GodsGrace]

They call themselves Christian. They read and follow the Bible. That's good enough for me.

I didn't say they're not saved.
I said they're not Christian.
We can't state who is saved or who is not...

To be a Christian, one has to believe that Jesus is God.
The JWs do not.

I don't know much about the mormons...

 

[Wrangler]

Protestants are not allowed to receive communion in Catholic churches because they do not believe in transubstantiation.
Communion is a sacrament and those that do not hold to this belief really should not receive communion because it is something done IN COMMUNION

At my church, we are in communion with our God, not 100% doctrinal purity with others. RCC are perfectly invited to share in communion at our church and all those who call Jesus lord and savior. See the difference?

 

[GodsGrace]

No; it was those who proved to be the good ground in which the seed of the word took root that were the truly saved.

You can have the last word Farouk.
But OSAS was NOT a belief of the early church.
It took 1,500 years for someone to think that one up.
Were the others so dumb?
You know, the same ones that came up with the hypostatic union and the Trinity...

 

[Wrangler]

I'd have to say that Steve Ciocalanti (those that desire chocolate) is correct in that if we use the term too much, it becomes meaningless.

I don't believe an entire church and its theology can be considered heretical because one teaching is incorrect.
What if a church agrees with everything you would, but they believe in pre-trib. Would this make them heretical?

Yes, much in the same logical way that except for all the ways that I sin, I am not a sinner.

 

[Wrangler]

I didn't say they're not saved.
I said they're not Christian.
We can't state who is saved or who is not...

I said they call themselves Christian. The question of salvation is besides the point.

To be a Christian, one has to believe that Jesus is God.

This is nowhere in Scripture! I am a unitarian Christian who accepts God's Word that Jesus is the Son of God, making him, by definition, not God.

Not sure why you want the authority to dictate to people what they identify as in terms of their beliefs. Jesus said "Follow me." He did not say, accept this about my nature. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Think about that!

 

[GodsGrace]

On this forum? There are MANY views I found downright anti-Biblical posted here, such as using humans to declare who's in God's kingdom. I acknowledge that, I talk to people about different topics respectfully, and almost always the conversation ends with no one changing their views. And that's that. It's not my job to go and burn the heretic at the stake

OK. I'm like that too.
I choose my battles...some just are of no importance at all.
But it's a good idea to give scriptural support to what you or I believe...you never know, it could be helpful to someone reading along.

It's our job to state truth, and it's the job of the Holy Spirit to convince the person.
In fact, the more we argue, the worse it might be.

I remember ONE TIME, some years ago, one person did stop believing in OSAS after all the verses I had posted that began to give him
problems.

But, one sows, one plants the seed, one waters, etc...

 

[GodsGrace]

At my church, we are in communion with our God, not 100% doctrinal purity with others. RCC are perfectly invited to share in communion at our church and all those who call Jesus lord and savior. See the difference?

Of course I see the difference.
But we don't believe that the host become the body and blood of Christ so the bar is lower... or is it higher??
Less is expected in a protestant church of the person that is going to receive communion.
This is the difference.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, much in the same logical way that except for all the ways that I sin, I am not a sinner.

I think, then, that you're watering down the word HERETIC if you think only one teaching will make the entire church heretical.
Isn't this what you were speaking AGAINST?

I agree that we should not identify ourselves as sinners.
We are children of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I said they call themselves Christian. The question of salvation is besides the point.



This is nowhere in Scripture! I am a unitarian Christian who accepts God's Word that Jesus is the Son of God, making him, by definition, not God.

Not sure why you want the authority to dictate to people what they identify as in terms of their beliefs. Jesus said "Follow me." He did not say, accept this about my nature. Jesus did not teach the trinity. Think about that!

I have no authority to dictate to people how they should identify themselves.

This was done in the creeds in the early church.

If we do this YOUR way, and anyone can believe what they want to and still call themselves a Christian,
the word would lose all meaning.

There are some basic tenets that we are to hold to.

If I believe in reincarnation, could I still call myself a Christian because I believe Jesus was a light from God?

 

[Davy]

LOL
I agree with you on both counts!
Jesus is coming back or everyone that wrote, lied.
And He's coming back only one time...at the end of the world..whenever that will be.
Good on Matthew 24....

So you're saying a teaching that contradicts the bible, and I agree.
But even those that are wrong think they are agreeing with the bible...

Maybe an incorrect teaching IS a heresy.
Another poster said a teaching that could cause you to lose salvation...but I can't think of any...

Well, I don't mean absolutely everything in error taught. Some simply make mistakes because we are all human and not perfect. But when it's an 'obvious' contradiction against Bible Scripture, and it's easy to find out by simple Bible study, then that is a heresy beyond any doubt. But even then one ignorant of the Scriptures from lack of study that might push a heresy, they do that in ignorance. Yet they won't know they're doing it unless shown in Scripture. If they still choose to follow the heresy and not heed Scripture once shown, then they share the guilt in those who started the heresy.

 

[MatthewG]

We really may simply not know that a person has had a tiny seed planted in him and eventually as a result come to the truth on that point. Sometimes God does shows us any good results wrought through us... but quite often in this natural life anyway, we may not see it.

I believe that sometime happens here too, but seldom do we witness a testimony of favorable change.

Some people, however, [or so it seems to me] like to burn people at the stake [symbolically/figuratively]. Will the time come in our nation where they will physically do it?

No but that true burn your talking about does have its flaring. It’s from our flesh. It is when we like to be right in our mind and heart instead of just letting someone else believe how they will and let those whom are babes in Christ mature by giving them a helping hand every once in awhile by pointing things out.

I remember myself when I was a babe in Christ, I was not lead completely by the spirit but my flesh. That seed had to be watered and nurtured but God gave the increase.

There two types of Christians newborn babes, and mature Christians I think, what are your thoughts?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Of course I see the difference.
But we don't believe that the host become the body and blood of Christ so the bar is lower... or is it higher??
Less is expected in a protestant church of the person that is going to receive communion.
This is the difference.

Gate keeping is gate keeping. Every group does it about different things.

 

[GodsGrace]

Gate keeping is gate keeping. Every group does it about different things.

OK
But too many gates...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I didn't say they're not saved.
I said they're not Christian.
We can't state who is saved or who is not...

To be a Christian, one has to believe that Jesus is God.
The JWs do not.

I don't know much about the mormons...

Actual "Mormon" here.

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed "Mormons") 100% believe that Jesus Christ 100% divine, the Son of God. It's literally the first Article of Faith. Yes, I'm a Christian. Not a Protestant or Catholic, but Christian nonetheless.

 

[Wrangler]

If we do this YOUR way, and anyone can believe what they want to and still call themselves a Christian,
the word would lose all meaning.

Strawman. A Christian has something to due with God’s Anointed. This is why they are not called Peterians or Godians.