When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

[Hidden In Him]

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

"Coming upon the clouds of heaven" in Daniel 7:13 is a clear parallel to "coming in the clouds" in Mark 13:26. Both passages are still future tense:

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Mark 13:26 - ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλαις
Daniel 7:13 - ἰδοὺ ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν

 

[Waiting on him]

It would really help if you read what I write.....

"Jesus was not sent to the Pharisees but to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" because he knew that the Jewish leadership were the figurative 'leopards' whose 'spots' would never change

Maybe you could explain why you would conclude Paul.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Future to Daniel, yes, and the Revelation future to John, yes, and both Daniel and Revelation spoke of the same events at times, but that does not mean everything they wrote about is future to us. Daniel describes 4 world empires, 2 of which he lived under, Babylon and Persia.

That is true....but Daniel wrote of those future powers whist still under Babylonian rule. This is how we know when God's Kingdom will come....in the reign of the kings who rule at "the time of the end"....pictured by the feet of iron and clay. (Daniel 2:44) That is the Anglo-American dual World Power.

They were followed by Greece and Rome, and he describes 11 horns, powers, rulers or kingdoms, that grew from the Roman empire which ceased to exist after 476ad in the area under discussion. The 11th horn, described in great detail by both Daniel and John, exists today, having begun to grow and evolve during the reign of the 10 horns, and in the process of destroying 3 of them, gained full power over the other 7, which in time became the foundation kingdoms of modern Europe. That little horn power that reigned over Europe was the Papacy.

All those future world powers came and went in what Jesus called "the appointed times of the nations" or "the Gentile Times". (Luke 21:24) This was a succession of world powers who held dominion over God's people.
In Jesus' day, Rome was the dominant world power, but the coming of God's kingdom, to destroy all the world's corrupt kingdoms and replace them, was still a long way off. Out of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who ruled until America, (allied with Britain from whom she descended) emerged as a super power in the 20th century. There are no more kings after these.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Maybe you could explain why you would conclude Paul.

Not understanding the question....sorry....

 

[Waiting on him]

"Coming upon the clouds of heaven" in Daniel 7:13 is a clear parallel to "coming in the clouds" in Mark 13:26. Both passages are still future tense:

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Mark 13:26 - ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλαις
Daniel 7:13 - ἰδοὺ ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν

Genesis 37:9 KJV
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
The sun,moon, and stars could be in reference to apostate Israel in the first century. This same symbology is also used in Matthew24 and the book of revelation.

 

[Waiting on him]

Not understanding the question....sorry....

Paul was a Pharisee, as well as nicodemus.

 

[Waiting on him]

That is true....but Daniel wrote of those future powers whist still under Babylonian rule. This is how we know when God's Kingdom will come....in the reign of the kings who rule at "the time of the end"....pictured by the feet of iron and clay. (Daniel 2:44) That is the Anglo-American dual World Power.



All those future world powers came and went in what Jesus called "the appointed times of the nations" or "the Gentile Times". (Luke 21:24) This was a succession of world powers who held dominion over God's people.
In Jesus' day, Rome was the dominant world power, but the coming of God's kingdom, to destroy all the world's corrupt kingdoms and replace them, was still a long way off. Out of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who ruled until America, (allied with Britain from whom she descended) emerged as a super power in the 20th century. There are no more kings after these.

I’m amazed, that the jehovah witnesses have adopted all these modern church doctrines.

 

[Waiting on him]

Our political parties can’t even rule Chicagut of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who ruled until America, (allied with Britain from whom she descended) emerged as a super power in the 20th century. There are no more kings after these.
Says @Aunty Jane.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
I have a bit of a different take on that. ...
As far as the swords were concerned, the disciples had just two among the twelve.....hardly well armed for what was to come.
...
On the night of Jesus' arrest Peter drew his sword to protect his Lord, but was rebuked by Jesus and the wound inflicted on the slave of the High Priest was healed.
...
I see this more as a fulfillment of prophesy than permission for a Christian to be armed with weapons. ...
I don't see any recommendation from Jesus to oppose governments or even to fight our enemies.
...

Dearest AJ,

Certainly some have argued the same points, but I'd propose two CONTEXT aspects:

1. If the "sword" were for the Garden then one must take ALL THREE in context, such that the PURSE was obviously intended to BRIBE the arresting officials so as NOT to arrest Jesus; and the BAG intended to provide Jesus with a pillow, blanket, and Snickers Bar during his captivity.

2. It seems to me that the sword's purpose is NOT to fight against the government (although there may be some merit) but rather in the Full context where the PURSE allows needs to be met, the BAG carries provisions, and the SWORD provides personal protection (self defense).


It's unfortunate that the church does not teach the distinction between when Jesus was with us, versus no long being on earth. But Scripture REQUIRES that we be PREPARED not only for when can't buy or sell, but also when we may be faced with a World Without Rule of Law. And it's my personal experience that AFTER we've done ALL THAT WE CAN, then GOD steps in to provide a way. -- And so I follow Scripture.

With VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo & ELAM

.

 

[Bobby Jo]

That is true....but Daniel wrote of those future powers whist still under Babylonian rule. This is how we know when God's Kingdom will come....in the reign of the kings who rule at "the time of the end"....pictured by the feet of iron and clay. (Daniel 2:44) That is the Anglo-American dual World Power.

They were followed by Greece and Rome, and he describes 11 horns, powers, rulers or kingdoms, that grew from the Roman empire which ceased to exist after 476ad in the area under discussion. The 11th horn, described in great detail by both Daniel and John, exists today, having begun to grow and evolve during the reign of the 10 horns, and in the process of destroying 3 of them, gained full power over the other 7, which in time became the foundation kingdoms of modern Europe. That little horn power that reigned over Europe was the Papacy.​

All those future world powers came and went in what Jesus called "the appointed times of the nations" or "the Gentile Times". (Luke 21:24) This was a succession of world powers who held dominion over God's people.
In Jesus' day, Rome was the dominant world power, but the coming of God's kingdom, to destroy all the world's corrupt kingdoms and replace them, was still a long way off. Out of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who ruled until America, (allied with Britain from whom she descended) emerged as a super power in the 20th century. There are no more kings after these.

Dearest AJ,

Just so we all know, the "commentators" and most all "teachers" miss the obvious:

Dan. 2:45 just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. ...
-- Where we see the sequence 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE​

... and:

Dan. 2:41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom ...​

As such we MUST anticipate that Dan. 7 depicts as the details of this FIFTH "Divided Kingdom":

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4. Iron, Roman
-- Clay, "Divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a "TIGER"), China
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations -- "was and is not" because it has NO Geography, NO Populous, NO Army
9. Millennial Kingdom
10. Eternity in Heaven​

... and we should note that after GOD sends satan and his U.N./Secretary General into the pit, the THREE Concurrent Superpowers would continue for a "season and a time" until they're converted into the Millennial Kingdom:

Dan. 7:12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. ​

And finally, the Ten "little horn" nations give their sovereignty over to the Eleventh "little horn":

Dan. 7: 20 and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up and before which three of them fell, the horn which had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and which seemed greater than its fellows.​

... were identified in August of 1993 as published in the November, 1993 "U.N. Chronicle":

Current PERMANENT Membership in the Security Council:
1. U.S.
2. U.K.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China

NOMINATED to PERMANENT Membership in the Security Council:
6. Germany (Economic Power)
7. Japan (Economic Power)
8. Brazil (Regional Representative for S. America)
9. Nigeria (Regional Representative for Africa)
10. India (Regional Representative for the Near East)​

Thus Scripture outlines and details HISTORY Before It Occurs!

With VERY Best Regards,
Bobby Jo & ELAM

.

 

[post]

In deference to his covenant with Abraham

His covenant with Abraham ((who was not an Israelite)) is that "all nations" will be blessed through his offspring. not just the sons of Jacob/Israel. Genesis 22:18

which is Genesis 3 again. The Seed of The Woman


if you don't get it right, Jane, you should not speak.
you should certainly not boast in it if you have not got it correct.

50 years is nothing. zero. nada.
throw away all your error. it's worthless.
sell everything to gain the truth. your pride not excluded.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Genesis 37:9 KJV
[9] And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
The sun,moon, and stars could be in reference to apostate Israel in the first century. This same symbology is also used in Matthew24 and the book of revelation.

Hey, Waiting. Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

Too forced. Joseph's dream was specifically about his father, mother and brothers, as the passage itself bears out:

10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?” 11 And his brothers envied him, but his father kept the matter in mind.

 

[post]

A Terrible Beauty? – ARTnews.com

(you can see a women appearing to manifest out of smoke from the 9/11/2001 Building Diaster)

you completely misread the article you linked.
that photo was taken in 1980 by Sarah Charlesworth.
the article mentioned the artistic value of irony in a 9/11 exhibit composed of things all created long before 9/11
but that apparently sailed right over your head as you eisegeseted, paying no attention to what was actually stated in what you were reading.

this post i am making is 100% on topic.

all too often all of you post things here as though you have authority. but you are wrong.
you post everything from mild error to absolute BS and do so with an air of being correct.
your comment, that i'm replying to, is an absolute lie and you are therefore propagating lies as though they are true. but you originated this lie for whatever mistaken reason.
DON'T DO THAT.
REPENT OF THAT.
YOU ARE HURTING PEOPLE WITH YOUR NEGLIGENCE.
BE CAREFUL!

stop it.
think clearly.
read the Bible slowly.
ask questions.
be sober-minded and intelligent.
as wise, not as unwise

 

[Brakelite]

That is the Anglo-American dual World Power.

What biblical evidence do you have for this please.

 

[post]

We all choose, some wisely, some poorly

no.

none of us wisely.
all of us foolishly.

salvation is by mercy; of grace.

 

[post]

the feet of iron and clay. (Daniel 2:44) That is the Anglo-American dual World Power.

that's ridiculous.

the feet of iron mixed with clay is Rome, which still exists today in a divided empire stage. the 10 toes/heads are forms of it.

German 'kaiser' = derivative of Latin Ceaser.
Russian 'tsar' = derivative of Latin Ceaser.
East & West Orthodox. Italy & Turkey. Alexandrian & Byzantine.
Gog & Magog.

please.
stop thinking America is special. Israel is God's chosen people, not Britain. not USA. we get grafted in, by faith. we don't boast against the natural branches. that's idiocy!!
English is a pagan corrupt language, not the pure one of Zephaniah 3:9. we're a gentile pagan nation full of heresy & vanity that is not mentioned in scripture at all, unless we count as one of the 'young lions' in Ezekiel 38 ((sons of Great Britain, whose symbol is a lion)) that makes a lot of noise but doesn't lift a finger when all those things go down.

america will be destroyed. not because 'ooh the American church needs to be more charismatic and give more money to its celebrity preachers' but because all towers must fall.

so much error
so much time wasted, yet boasting

((not here for the 'likes'))

 

[Aunty Jane]

you need an explanation for why the two recorded times He openly revealed & declared Himself as the Messiah were to the gentile woman at the well and to the gentile ruler Pilate.

Regardless of what he said to the Samaritan woman or Pilate, Jesus said he was sent only to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” (Matthew 15:24) but Jesus did on occasion respond to expressions of faith by non-Jews. (Matthew 8:5-13; 15:21-28) Jesus demonstrated that it is possible to be “no part of the world” and at the same time show love for the world of mankind, for people. All of these instances are people who showed faith in him.

you need to ask why those two instances/witnesses are recorded.

Do I? So where is it written that we have a reason for that, (1 Corinthians 4:6-7) or did you just make that up? Do you know the difference between "what is written" and what is "conjecture" about what is written? You seem to be an expert in this.....

you need to get Genesis 3 right. it screws up all your theology when you have it wrong. it's the beginning, for a reason.

What makes you think I don't have Genesis 3 right? Is it because it differs from your own view and therefore must be wrong?
Good grief....

 

[Bobby Jo]

no.

none of us wisely.
all of us foolishly.

salvation is by mercy; of grace.

You've apparently assessed your own situation, but please do not presume to assess mine.

And now on IGNORE.
Bobby Jo

.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What biblical evidence do you have for this please.

Since secular history bears out the truth of Daniel's prophesy and Rome was the world power when Jesus walked the earth, Britannia rose from the ashes of the Roman Empire and in these last days has allied herself with America who herself became a superpower in the 20th century. It is “in the final part of the days” that “the offspring of mankind,” the common man, comes to the fore. In many lands kings, kaisers, and czars who were absolute rulers are replaced by both revolutionary and democratic rulers. Human misrule of the earth becomes a hodgepodge of harsh dictatorships and more pliable democratic forms of government. Like iron and clay, these do not mix. Even in the United Nations they do not come together but engage in angry debates and threats. Truly, ‘the kingdom proves to be divided.’ (Daniel 2:41-43)

We see in “the final part of the days,” the issue of world domination comes to its culmination. The nations involving "the King of the North" and "the King of the South engage in a "pushing". Threats fly and peace seems a long way away.

So, what is the solution? Already set in motion since 1914 is God’s Messianic Kingdom. It is the “stone” cut out of the “mountain” of Jehovah’s universal sovereignty. No human politician shares in that! At God’s due time, it smashes the feet of the image and grinds the entire colossus to powder. Like chaff before the wind, man-rule is carried away, with no trace being left. But the “stone”—the Kingdom of the grand God and his Christ—becomes a large mountain that fills the whole earth. That kingdom ‘will never be brought to ruin and will never be passed on to any other people.’ It will stand forever. That is what I believe the Bible foretells.

 

[Aunty Jane]

2. It seems to me that the sword's purpose is NOT to fight against the government (although there may be some merit) but rather in the Full context where the PURSE allows needs to be met, the BAG carries provisions, and the SWORD provides personal protection (self defense).

I don't always see metaphors in everything, but I know that others do.
I believe that it had more to do with Jewish custom and their failure to live up to their expected care of fellow Jews. Jesus' instruction was to preach in all the towns and villages and if someone offered hospitality, to stay there until their work was finished. (Matthew 10:11-14) And the fact that although Jesus disciples were armed, they would not resort to violence....Peter didn't apparently get the memo, so Jesus had to rebuke him and give a lesson concerning the use of weapons...."Those who live by the sword will die by the sword"....substitute the word "gun" there and it has the same meaning IMO.

It's unfortunate that the church does not teach the distinction between when Jesus was with us, versus no long being on earth. But Scripture REQUIRES that we be PREPARED not only for when can't buy or sell, but also when we may be faced with a World Without Rule of Law. And it's my personal experience that AFTER we've done ALL THAT WE CAN, then GOD steps in to provide a way. -- And so I follow Scripture.

I guess when you understand that it will certainly be a "dog eat dog" world when it all finally falls apart....no buying or selling without the mark of the beast....(we do not yet know exactly what that mark entails) but no Christian will be able to take it.

It won't matter what you have...if others are starving and wanting what you have stored away.....they will take your life to get hold of it....so is it a good idea to stockpile things and have to fight off and kill would be thieves who are themselves just trying to stay alive?....or do we just rely on God to save us? He gave Israel the manna for 40 years in the wilderness.....and he made water come out of rocks....so can he provide for his own.....I am going to say "yes". I trust that he will provide what we need.