Explain why all those verses I LISTED are wrong and only yours is right...
Many of these are answered in the thread, but I realize it's long, so I'm revisiting . . .
Much love!
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Explain why all those verses I LISTED are wrong and only yours is right...
Romans 5:1-5
We are justified by FAITH. We are made right with God by faith. If we lose that faith, are we still justified?
By faith we have been introduced into grace. Ephesians 2:8 We are saved BY GRACE through FAITH. It is faith that saves.
Hope you had a blessed evening
You can't have it both ways. Either you accept is as written, with it's own internal condition, and that's how it's written, or you insist other conditions also apply though not given in this statement.I absolutely believe what it says. I just know there's other information given to us in the Bible to know it's a conditional promise.
Whether an unbeliever never believed, or has stopped believing, either way unbelievers are not risen with him. So, if you are not risen with him because of unbelief, you aren't going to appear with him. The passage is written to people risen in him. It only applies to people risen in him. You're changing the verse and saying it's written to people who aren't risen him, too.You can't have it both ways. Either you accept is as written, with it's own internal condition, and that's how it's written, or you insist other conditions also apply though not given in this statement.
When you insist that other conditions apply, you render the statement of this passage itself false. Because it wouldn't be true, that those who were raised with Christ will appear with Him, only some would, or maybe only some would, depending on how you proceed from there.
But not the simple and plain statement made.
No statement of Scripture is untrue as written. Your "other information" contradicts this clear and plain passage.
Much love!
The passage is applicable to those who were raised with Him. You are subtly changing it into "people risen in Him"and treating that as a changeable state.Whether an unbeliever never believed, or has stopped believing, either way unbelievers are not risen with him. So, if you are not risen with him because of unbelief, you aren't going to appear with him. The passage is written to people risen in him. It only applies to people risen in him. You're changing the verse and saying it's written to people who aren't risen him, too.
That's called circular reasoning.the statement is, If you were raised with Him, and it refers to us sharing in His resurrection, which is an accomplished and permanent thing.
We were co-raised with Him.That's called circular reasoning.
You're saying sharing in his resurrection is a permanent thing because sharing in his resurrection happened and it's a permanent thing.
You cant fall away from vainity . Remember even the devils beleive . They did believeBelieving in vain. Empty belief.
Much love!
We're human EG. We're just God's creatures.who errs from truth? But those who do not believe.
Does a true believer err from truth (Speaking of the gospel here. Not non salvation doctrines such as prophecy and other stuff) how could they have been saved if they erred from truth?
Remember, Not everyone in James audience is saved. He proved that in chapter 2.
Agreed.A pharisee could quote verbatim the whole of the OT.
Yet they proved by their unbelief they knew nothing of what they posted
Anyone can post a verse, or a group of verses..
If we are saved by ius doing. Then we save ourselves. Its not God clinging to us and keeping us as he promisedWe're human EG. We're just God's creatures.
When we sin we err from the truth.
When a denomination teaches heresy, we err from the truth.
But, if all I've read in the N.T. is true, then we're still saved.
Clinging to Jesus is what saves us....
Doing our best and not living lives of sin is what saves us once we know God (not before).
Sorry I didn't understand your first post about this.
And yes, I'm speaking of born again believers. I don't know one that is perfectly sanctified.
Your right, we must accept those.Agreed.
I like to say that the N.T. is a complete thought and it must be understood that way.
BUT...when we have many very clear verses, we must accept those and not one or two that make a statement which is true,
but which cannot be used to make a doctrine, or to change what the general message of the N.T. is.
Yep. I agree. We're not being born again. The believer IS born again.Born from God. Not, borning in Christ, or something like that.
I don't see anything hard or impossible about God's Spirit being able to un-unite himself with a person's spirit. I know he is incredibly committed to remaining united with the believer, but to say he is literally unable to leave is just nonsense.OK, you're argument is that we remain raised because being raised is a condition of being in Him, and that being In Christ is, for you, a changeable thing
It's both. You have been raised to new life with him, and you remain raised in that new life as long as you are believing in him (1 Corinthians 15:2)....therefore, remaining raised with Him becomes how you look at it, not having been raised with Him.
You are new in that you are different, not new in that you didn't exist before.You were born from Adam. And you were co-raised with Christ, which is also called born from God. That's where the new you came from. You are a new creature.
The "spirit born of Spirit" previously existed? Interesting idea! What was begotten from God, in that case? A pre-existent being? Wouldn't that being have been corrupted by sin, having not yet been justified?not new in that you didn't exist before.
The natural branches were the Jews.Romans 11:13-21 KJV
13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15) For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16) For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18) Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19) Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
The natural branches which were broken off, is it your thinking that these were "born again Jews"?
Much love!
I did some carpet bombing to show that there are many verses that show one could forfeit their salvation by losing faith/belief, by leaving the faith.Many of these are answered in the thread, but I realize it's long, so I'm revisiting . . .
Much love!
Are you supposing that the branches which were broken off, that these were born again believers losing their salvation? Or unbelievers, unsaved, not regenerated, but having rejected the message of the Gospel?The natural branches were the Jews.
But look at verse 20...the branches were broken off due to unbelief.
Romans 9 to 11 is specifically about the Jews and Corporate salvation.
However, within Corporate salvation is also the individual.
If branches were broken off due to unbelief...
we also will be broken off due to unbelief.
If you remain in my home, you are one of my residents. If you are not remaining in my home, you are not.
You know I address several from your list, and then waited to see your responses. I took them from the top of your list.I did some carpet bombing to show that there are many verses that show one could forfeit their salvation by losing faith/belief, by leaving the faith.
I don't expect you to speak to each one...but how would you explain so many verses away just to stick to your?