Eternal Security

[Ferris Bueller]

marks,
I'm not exegeting 2 verses for a person (you) that does not seem to be able to get away from ONE VERSE.
And that does not seem willing to understand any other verse.
...
Exegesis is reserved for serious conversation and you don't seem ready for that....

AMEN!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Being born of God is a permanent change.

As long as you keep believing.
1 John 2:24-25

 

[marks]

AMEN!

Give it a shot if you want.

I find few people indeed who are truly interested in having a truly Biblical discussion. Theories without Scripture, taking pot-shots like this one, diverting the discussion when the going gets tough, endless logical fallacies, it goes on and on what many will do to avoid following through a topic to it's conclusion.

This thread is a perfect example.

Once in a while I find someone who is willing to discuss, and look at the material, and follow through on a disagreement. These are the discussions I find fascinating. Invariably, I find that either that person, or myself, has failed to give proper weight to some particular passage. When it's me, I've gained. When it's the other, I've seen how such viewpoints are formed, and again I've gained.

When obstructions and diversions are put into discussions, whether these little jabs, or fallacies, misquoted verses, whatever, everyone loses, and that's sad!

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Give it a shot if you want.

I find few people indeed who are truly interested in having a truly Biblical discussion. Theories without Scripture, taking pot-shots like this one, diverting the discussion when the going gets tough, endless logical fallacies, it goes on and on what many will do to avoid following through a topic to it's conclusion.

This thread is a perfect example.

Once in a while I find someone who is willing to discuss, and look at the material, and follow through on a disagreement. These are the discussions I find fascinating. Invariably, I find that either that person, or myself, has failed to give proper weight to some particular passage. When it's me, I've gained. When it's the other, I've seen how such viewpoints are formed, and again I've gained.

When obstructions and diversions are put into discussions, whether these little jabs, or fallacies, misquoted verses, whatever, everyone loses, and that's sad!

Much love!

The problem is you're unwillingly to consider the impact of other scripture on your narrow interpretation of Colossians 3:1-4.

Your interpretation of Colossians 3:1-4 makes the verses we bring forth false, while our verses do not make Colossians 3:1-4 false. Comparing verses like that is how one discerns the truth. You're not doing that. I think if you understood that you'd be able to have a more reasonable discussion.

 

[GodsGrace]

Listen to the word.

"If they were of us, they would have remained."

Those who don't remain, were they of us? No.

Call them Gnostics, call them lazy, call them whatever you want, but John made a blanket statement, not limited to a singled sect or heresy. It applies to anyone who fits that description, "they went out from us".

Much love!

How does one verse outdo all of the verses that state we can be saved and then leave?

Should I post them again?
I hate carpet bombing...but here goes:

1 Timothy 4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6 I only use this to show that one could leave the faith,,,not to show that they cannot return...We could discuss.
Revelation 2:4-5
Hebrews 3:12-19
2 Peter 2:20-22 To which you have not replied....
Romans 11:19-22
1 Timothy 4:16
James 5:19-20 To which you have not replied...
1 Corinthians 9:27

There are so many more.
Scripture should not be ignored.
One or two verses cannot overcome many verses that are clear in the teaching.

OSAS is just not biblical.
It was never believed in the early church that was taught by the Apostles.

 

[marks]

The problem is you're unwillingly to consider the impact of other scripture on your narrow interpretation of Colossians 3:1-4.

Nope, that's not it, but if you are unwilling to exegete that passage, I understand.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Your interpretation of Colossians 3:1-4 makes the verses we bring forth false, while our verses do not make Colossians 3:1-4 false.

You've got that quite backwards.

That's why understanding Colossians 3 is important. Exegete the passage, honestly, fairly, for what it says, and then ask yourself, do you believe what it says?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Nope, that's not it, but if you are unwilling to exegete that passage, I understand.

Much love!

I'm not contesting that the passage is true as written.
What I'm contesting is the condition for it to be true found in the rest of scripture that you are ignoring.
You make other scripture false by the way you interpret it. But the scriptures I bring forth do not make Colossians 3:1-4 false.

 

[marks]

You're not doing that.

I've been doing that for years, but I'm not here to talk about me. Don't act like I'm just coming out of a vacuum. Engage with the passages.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm not contesting that the passage is true as written.

Then you just have to ask if you believe it.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That's why understanding Colossians 3 is important. Exegete the passage, honestly, fairly, for what it says, and then ask yourself, do you believe what it says?

I absolutely believe what it says. I just know there's other information given to us in the Bible to know it's a conditional promise.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've been doing that for years, but I'm not here to talk about me. Don't act like I'm just coming out of a vacuum. Engage with the passages.

Much love!

I've done that, but you've just decided to ignore the rest of scripture.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then you just have to ask if you believe it.

Much love!

I believe that if you believe and keep believing (1 Corinthians 15:2, Hebrews 3:6...) you will indeed be risen with him at his coming.
The 'keep believing' part found in the rest of the counsel of scripture is what you are ignoring. Your interpretation of Colossians 3:1-4 makes all the verses about the necessity to keep believing false. I amazed that you can't see that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How does one verse outdo all of the verses that state we can be saved and then leave?

Should I post them again?
I hate carpet bombing...but here goes:

1 Timothy 4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6 I only use this to show that one could leave the faith,,,not to show that they cannot return...We could discuss.
Revelation 2:4-5
Hebrews 3:12-19
2 Peter 2:20-22 To which you have not replied....
Romans 11:19-22
1 Timothy 4:16
James 5:19-20 To which you have not replied...
1 Corinthians 9:27

There are so many more.
Scripture should not be ignored.
One or two verses cannot overcome many verses that are clear in the teaching.

OSAS is just not biblical.
It was never believed in the early church that was taught by the Apostles.

How do these verses outdo all the verses which state we have security in christ. That we have eternal life (not conditional) that we have been given every blessing. And that salvation is a gift. Not a reward?

If those verses are translated like you translate them. Then all the other verses are wrong. And we can throw the Bible out.

 

[GodsGrace]

When you start looking to what you do to stay right with God instead of what Jesus did.

Does that mean you stop being reborn though? I don't see that.

Romans 5 speaks of the same faith that saves us is the same faith that gives us "access into the grace in which we stand", so it seems to me that we can be saved, but not standing in grace, if we are not exercising our faith.

Much love!

What did Jesus do?
He went to the cross for us.
He did His part...
We also have a part to do...this is all Jesus talked about and taught.

Jesus said many times that we must believe to be saved....
John 11:25
I am the resurrection and the life; he who BELIEVES in Me shall live even if he dies.

We must believe in Him to be saved...
if we stop believing, are we still saved?

Romans 5:1-5
We are justified by FAITH. We are made right with God by faith. If we lose that faith, are we still justified?
By faith we have been introduced into grace. Ephesians 2:8 We are saved BY GRACE through FAITH. It is faith that saves.

 

[GodsGrace]

How do these verses outdo all the verses which state we have security in christ. That we have eternal life (not conditional) that we have been given every blessing. And that salvation is a gift. Not a reward?

If those verses are translated like you translate them. Then all the other verses are wrong. And we can throw the Bible out.

Of course we have security In Christ.
We have security IN CHRIST.
When we are IN CHRIST we have security.

And yes, salvation is a gift through the grace of God based on our faith.
Faith saves us in the N.T. and faith saved in the O.T.

And I don't translate verses....they are plain and simple for even a child to understand.
I just read them as they are plainly written.
The N.T. was not written for scholars, but for all of us to understand.

And what OTHER verses are you speaking of?
Post some.

 

[GodsGrace]

Salvation is a condition determined by your current "beliefs"?

To my understanding, salvation is forgiveness of sins, and removal from death and darkness by virtue of sharing in Jesus' death and resurrection.

Receiving this by faith opens the door to being saved, but that salvation is not at all our belief, it's being born of God, something He does, and no where in the Bible is that undone.

Much love!

Well marks,
It's undone in all those verses I listed and there are plenty more.

You just don't care to "see" what they say.

 

[farouk]

What did Jesus do?
He went to the cross for us.
He did His part...
We also have a part to do...this is all Jesus talked about and taught.

Jesus said many times that we must believe to be saved....
John 11:25
I am the resurrection and the life; he who BELIEVES in Me shall live even if he dies.

We must believe in Him to be saved...
if we stop believing, are we still saved?

Romans 5:1-5
We are justified by FAITH. We are made right with God by faith. If we lose that faith, are we still justified?
By faith we have been introduced into grace. Ephesians 2:8 We are saved BY GRACE through FAITH. It is faith that saves.

@GodsGrace Here's a good verse!

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (John 6.37)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course we have security In Christ.
We have security IN CHRIST.
When we are IN CHRIST we have security.

And yes, salvation is a gift through the grace of God based on our faith.
Faith saves us in the N.T. and faith saved in the O.T.

And I don't translate verses....they are plain and simple for even a child to understand.
I just read them as they are plainly written.
The N.T. was not written for scholars, but for all of us to understand.

And what OTHER verses are you speaking of?
Post some.

Yes we are saved IN CHRIST

Who puts is UN CHRIST?

Who keeps us IN CHRIST.

What kind of security would I have if I had to fear I could lose salvation? I could have no security.

John told he we can KNOW we have life eternal. and it is this bases of knowing we are eternally secure which keeps us in the faith and walking, even in time of great tribulation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well marks,
It's undone in all those verses I listed and there are plenty more.

You just don't care to "see" what they say.

We do care what they say.

We just do not interpret them as you do.