@Eternally Grateful Romans 8.38-39 is very assuring indeed...
Eternal Security
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The "like" from @Ferris Bueller was for me.
So I can assume the above post is about me too.
I've exegeted stuff for you.
You don't reply with your own understanding.
You do exactly what you're complaining about to FB.
I give you verse....I tell you what they mean....
It's up to YOU to explain WHY you do not agree with me.
Your reply cannot be to please exegete for you.
This is going around in circles.
You want to be serious?
Explain why all those verses I LISTED are wrong and only yours is right...
marks,
I DID exegete Colossians 3:1-4 for you.
You don't seem to see what is written there - only the part you like.
Amen to that!@GodsGrace Here's a good verse!
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (John 6.37)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Why would you fear losing salvation?
It's not like a watch that you lose somewhere.
You have to NOT WANT GOD anymore.
It's up to YOU to stay with God.
John 15:6 is Jesus saying that if we abide IN HIM we will NOT be thrown away as a branch.
It's up to US to keep abiding in Him.
I don't interpret scripture --- I just post what it says.
What does this verse mean to you?
James 5:19-20?
I asked another poster, but no reply.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
when you say it is up to you. You remove God from the picture and you insert yourself.
God saved us when we became bankrupt in spirit. We came to the bottom. Like the tax collector. we got on our knees and called out to God in faiht. because we realized the truth about our separation from God.
its not a wishy washy faith,. It is not mere belief. Someone who comes to true saving faith just does not change their mind. Unless.
1. God proves to be untrustworthy.
2. Our so called faith was not true faith to begin with. Our true faith was in something else.
As john said, they departed from us, but they were never of us. for if they were of us, they never would have departed.
Who are they? They are those who deny Christ. Who Denys Christ? Unbelievers.
there are many among us who claim to have faith. But their faith is not real. It is these who will walk away. Because they only experienced Gods love through association with Gods true people. they have never truly experienced Gods love. They do not see or receive what they were told. so they lose faith.
1 Timothy 4:1 YLT
1) And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
Plainly written, easy to understand. The question here would be, what is it talking about, to "fall away from the faith, giving heed to . . ."?
There is "saving faith",
Romans 5:1 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
There is a "faith" that does not save,
James 2:19 KJV
19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
"fall away from the faith", should this be thought of as saying the same thing as, "having been justified, shall be condemned"? "Having become alive in Christ, will become dead flesh again"? "The born again shall die again"? Something like that? None of those words are used. "The one raised with Christ will go back to the dead"? It doesn't say that. It says, will fall from away from the faith.
Should we take it that way, as if this were speaking of the child of God being thrown back to the flesh and world?
How would the Apostle John answer this question?
He wrote that the one's who leave weren't actually "of us". And if we take the other approach, that to "fall away from the faith" is in fact "the born again die again", then that leaves us in an unreconcilable conflict with passages such as I've posted in the OP. And there are quite a number of them, I've chosen these for their clarity.
I've learned to use those passages that can only be saying one thing to let me know about passages that can be interpretted few different ways.
I know, I didn't exegete the passage, that is, go word by word to examine syntax and word use, and so on. This verse fairly straightforward to me.
But when I have a verse that uses the phrase, fall away from the faith, and I have verses that tell me there is a faith that saves, and faith that doesn't, and I have verses that tell me the true faith lasts, that answers the question.
Much love!
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
who errs from truth? But those who do not believe.
Does a true believer err from truth (Speaking of the gospel here. Not non salvation doctrines such as prophecy and other stuff) how could they have been saved if they erred from truth?
Remember, Not everyone in James audience is saved. He proved that in chapter 2.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
A pharisee could quote verbatim the whole of the OT.
Yet they proved by their unbelief they knew nothing of what they posted
Anyone can post a verse, or a group of verses..
Hebrews 6:1-9 KJV
1) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3) And this will we do, if God permit.
4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7) For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8) But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Firstly, this passage does not actually say, "leave the faith", it says, if they should fall away.
It doesn't say, those who were saved, reborn, justified, raised with Christ, crucified with Christ, I could go on, all these technical and descriptive words used in the Bible to show our salvation, none of them used here.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Which if these do not describe all the people Jesus ministered to? Taught? Worked miracles for? Sent out to DO miracles? Tasted the Word, but not eaten it? Shared in what the Holy Spirit did, but not reborn?
This phrase, "the powers of the age to come", the kingdom powers working through Jesus in His ministry.
That ONE unforgivable sin, to declare the work done by the Holy Spirit as being done by an unclean spirit.
Does this apply to NT Christians? One shot at "being saved". If you "get saved" and "screw it up" forget about it, you can't get back?
Or is it more properly placed in a context where the writer to the Hebrews is saying, if you do this kind of rejection after all you've seen and experienced, be warned lest you end up as the Pharisees,
John 12:37-40 KJV
37) But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38) That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39) Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40) He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Who is forever rejected? Those who saw His miracles, but believed Him not.
Much love!
Revelation 2:1-7 KJV
1) Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2) I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3) And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6) But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 1:20 KJV
20) The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
To the messenger of the church of Ephesus . . . if you don't return to your first love, I'm taking away your church.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
its a reply to the passage you asked me about
James 5:19
19 My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall cover a multitude of sins.
again I say...
who errs from truth? But those who do not believe.
Does a true believer err from truth (Speaking of the gospel here. Not non salvation doctrines such as prophecy and other stuff) how could they have been saved if they erred from truth?
Remember, Not everyone in James audience is saved. He proved that in chapter 2.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I did reply.
You claimed I did not.
I think you need to go back and read the passage you gave me and my response.
this also was a reply (so I replied twice)
Just because you may not agree with my reply does not mean I did not reply
I wonder whether we mean the same thing . . .
And please, you can stop your commentary on me. Only the part I like? Inaccurate and useless, otherwise known as vanity.
Much love!
Romans 11:13-21 KJV
13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15) For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16) For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17) And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18) Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19) Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
The natural branches which were broken off, is it your thinking that these were "born again Jews"?
Much love!
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