Eternal Security
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Loose analogies? I don't think so. That again goes towards the fundamental difference in how we read and present Scripture.
Ephesians 5:25-33 KJV
25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27) That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28) So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29) For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33) Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
but I speak concerning Christ and the church = primary topic
For this cause = the reason God instituted marriage
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones = This is a great mystery
Paul here reveals a mystery - something hidden until now - that we are members of Christ's body, of His flesh, and of His bones. Just like when He stood with the disciples, touch me! A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have! This is My real body!
We are His body, and He cares for us accordingly.
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and marry his wife, and they shall be one flesh.
For this cause.
Because we are become flesh and bone of Jesus Christ, that's why God instituted marriage. Marriage between man and woman was given to show God's intended relationship with us. Marriage is one of those types and shadows. What it pictures, however, is no shadow. It's the real deal.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Children grow up to leave their parent's house and take care of themselves.
Still think the analogy of being a child of God is not so loose?
I don't require further exposition on that post. Not needed.
Just like you don't need to manufacture these kinds of blanket statements to attribute to me. I've seen all this before you know.
Of course . . .
Apparently you already recognized it wasn't needed . . . but chose to post your pot shot anyway, it seems.
Much love!
I don't find "loose language" in the Bible. Regardless of statistics on human children's sociological habits.
Much love!
God clings to you.
It's YOU that must also cling to Him.
Jesus said if we abide in Him we will not be thrown out as dead branches.
Paul said to hold on tight...
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
What do the above mean to you?
Why would you have no hope?
Are you planning to abandon God?
Amen and praise be to God for what you say above.
Personally, I don't know how anyone could leave God's love.
But I do have a question for you:
Were you still saved those 5 years that you left and decided who you would serve?
Romans 6:16
You yourself seem to be proof that one could abandon God, hopefully just for a while.
The Jews didn't refer to themselves as born again believers.
The branches are the Jews.
The Jews that had no faith, that rejected the message of the gospel.
Please make your point.
Of course the one who does not REMAIN in the home previously was in it.
Jesus said we are to REMAIN in His home (to use your analogy)...
This means it is possible to leave that home.
It's very clear.
John 5:10
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope.
Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not erase his name from the Book of Life...
(which means you can be).
marks
I'm saying that the N.T. must be understood as a whole...
A person cannot take one or two verses and base their belief on only those 2 verses.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I thought that's what you might have been thinking.
Think of it this way. We're walking down a row of houses. I point to one, and say, You have to remain in this one if you are to be saved. Otherwise you will be swept away. So you enter that house to remain there. And the door shuts and locks behind you.
There are other houses you can camp out in, and think you are in the right one, but when you find you "no longer believe", your belief was something other than saving faith in Christ. Christ is faithful over God's house as a Son. Not a hireling, as a Son. Christ is faithful. Not you or me, Christ.
We are His house if we hold fast our confidence, and if we don't hold fast our confidence, we are not His house. Best not to be confused over which you are, His house, or some other house.
Much love!
I answer to biblical verses marks.
I posted verses that show we are saved by OUR FAITH.
If you can show the opposite, please do.
If one believes...he is saved.
To be saved ONE MUST BELIEVE.
John 3:16
If one does not believe...he is not saved.
Whenever that may happen....
They have fallen away from the faith.
Revelation 2:4-5
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.
Hebrews 3:12-19
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? ...
1 Timothy 4:16
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.
and more...
I'm asking you whether in your estimation that where Paul says "branches were broken off", were these people of whom it was written in Romans 6 had been baptized into Christ, into His death, buried with Him in baptism? That as Christ died, they also died, and having died, were made free from sin?
I don't think so myself. I'm wondering if that's what you think? And if so, why?
Much love!
That is so.
We are not justified by the faith that comes from Jesus...however this language you use is not very clear.
We are justified by OUR OWN FAITH....
Ephesians 2:8
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We are saved by God's GRACE
through FAITH (our faith in God)
I posted more verses regarding this.
IF you mean that our faith is a gift from God,,,then we can agree.
In Ephesians 2:8 the gift is GRACE, FAITH and SALVATION.
The gift refers to all 3.
I know...
It gets tough answering to biblical verses.
It's what God said, not what I said.
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