Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[marks]

is that in order to effect healing, we need to know.

I'd say for others, yes, but for ourselves, why would we have to know beforehand?

Is the real question whether or not I should be enduring this particular illness? Is this one an illness that is intended to remain with me to train me? Or should I be being healed of it, IF I weren't so doubleminded about it?

Does this capture the essence of the question?

Much love!

 

[DuckieLady]

Btw @Hidden In Him I'm not saying healing does not exist. It is listed as one of the gifts.

Just that

1) Maybe some people have a calling and a purpose and God can use their disability - like Nick Vujicic.

2) It says that the gifts are individually imparted to each to make up the body in Corinthians. We all need each other.

3) I don't know what I was thinking after that my brain is out of it. I had a point and we'll find it again someday.

 

[Faithbuilders]

Ah! Glad you brought this up.

Not to be confrontational here, because I liked the rest of your post, but this passage is abused by those like the ones I was referring to in my previous post to justify sin. A close analysis of this verse shows that he was stipulating they prosper even as their souls prospered. This is in fact something NOT happening with many Faith teachers I have seen, who are teaching some of the most atrocious interpretations of scripture imaginable.

For instance, many take the passage in Mark 10 to teach the “seed faith” principle; that God will turn your $1 into $100 or your $100 into $1,000. I doesn’t matter how much you give, God will multiply it by 100 and give it back to you. This is garbage, and an abuse of scripture to justify their own lavishness.

The actual passage reads as follows:

28 Then Peter began to say to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You.” 29 So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, 30 who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

What He was telling them here was this: Jesus was saying, For leaving all to follow me - family, houses, children, lands, etc - you will receive a hundred times each of those things when you become leaders of the church. You will receive a hundred times the spiritual family, the spiritual children, and the houses they own which they will welcome you into during your ministry.

I have seen this mess taught in Faith churches with my own eyes. They turn it into a method of lavishing personal wealth upon themselves and encouraging others to do so as well, even as they abuse them and rob them of their money through a misinterpretation of scripture.

I really did not bring that up, not do I wish to start a discussion on prosperity in this forum. That subject is just to hugely debated. I used that scripture first as an encouragement, in the fashion of this forum, in the area of healing. Just wishing best health upon everyone.

 

[Faithbuilders]

I disagree again brother. I believe paul spoke of his eyesight. He also could have spoken about many other possible issues he had. What gave him the weakness is what he was talking about

You can disagree, many do. When I read something in the Bible, I try to look at it through the filter of the whole scripture, not one verse, or even one chapter alone. And based on what I have read about healing, knowing Paul would have known then same things; that is what I look it, and how Paul could not have issues with his eyes or other parts of his body (at least not for long). Just look at the example of faith he showed when he was bitten by a snake...... I don't think know I would not have been so calm!

 

[Faithbuilders]

why would they offer to give paul their own eyes. unless paul had a major issue with his own eyes?

we know that Pauls infirmity at the time of this writing was still not healed.

Gal 6 11 See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand!

Pauls eyesight was so bad he had to use large letters.

I was waiting for someone to bring that up. I wonder, if this world is still around 500 years from now, and someone reads that my friend would give there right arm for me what would they think? "Something must be wrong with his arm?" I think, in the same way, it was nothing more than a statement of affection.

As for the large print, in context, it is like we do here; make our type bold, or large to get a point across. I believe that is what Paul was doing, that is why he wanted to draw attention to it.

 

[marks]

What I'm saying is this: Judgment becomes the will of God once circumstances change, and we sin and must be corrected. Judgment becomes His will so that we not be condemned with the world by eventually giving ourselves over to sin completely and abandoning God altogether.

Training, though, not judgment. Hebrews 12 uses the word that means to train as you would a child, where it says chastisement. Disciplining would be a good translation, that is, to instill a discipline in a person.

I've learned that I don't really need to wonder about these things, about whether or not this or that is intended to remain in m life as disciplining, or that it may be healed, or that it's neither, but it's going to run its course because God isn't interfering with the natural order of things.

I have a physical condition at the moment that's going to result in the loss of several teeth soon. My understanding from God, IF I do understand, is that this is the progression of a condition He initiated before I was born, that it would bring an amazing harvest in my life a few years ago, and that it would then play itself out as such things do.

When I was in crisis over it a few years ago, this was in conjunction with a number of other circumstances, and God was doing the heavy lifting in me. Now, it's a reminder, that He is sovereign over all, and has predestined me to glory in Christ. I don't have to be concerned over what is coming, that is the lesson from the past.

But something I've come to, I don't need to know. I trust God implicitly, whether I understand or not, and if I'm asking for healing for something He means to be with me for a time, I know He will be faithful to not heal me. And if it's something that may be removed by prayer, I know He's faithful to heal me.

This confidence in God was boltered by my sight, to be sure, as I endured many things which I thought would destroy me, but He has brought me through them. And I know He will continue to bring me through, and I don't have any struggle in prayer over whether I will be healed of this or that, I simply know God is able if that is His intent. If I ask, He will, unless He has a really good reason not to.

How often, how long shall we ask? As long and as often as it is a care in our lives. Casting all your cares upon Him, because YOU are what He cares about.

Much love!

 

[Faithbuilders]

what would be considered financial and physical healing?

Paul tells us God has given us every spiritual blessing. so what more do we really need?

If we look at the world. Two secular studied find the lower class in the united states is still in the top percentile of wealth in the whole world.

using this as a guide. what would be considered blessed financially?

The reason Jesus came was more than just to give salvation, but also, to bring healing to our body as Jesus did by example, and debt cancellation, The is the year of jubilee! A never-ending year of jubilee!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I was waiting for someone to bring that up. I wonder, if this world is still around 500 years from now, and someone reads that my friend would give there right arm for me what would they think? "Something must be wrong with his arm?" I think, in the same way, it was nothing more than a statement of affection.

As for the large print, in context, it is like we do here; make our type bold, or large to get a point across. I believe that is what Paul was doing, that is why he wanted to draw attention to it.

1. well give your right arm, if people actually researched history, they would see that is a general pun that people say when they care about someone.

2. When we say it, we usually say, you would give it to me if I need it.

3. With paul, and in history in pauls day we do not see that used as a term or saying for showing ones love.

4. With paul. He did not say, If I needed it, I know you would give it to me.

5. We have paul writting, in large letters. why would he need to do that if he could see? He would not. Because the onje doing the writing for him wrote normal. there was an inherit difference in the writing because of a issue

6. Paul also spoke plainly of a physical infirmity (illness or sickness) in the verse which was mentioned.

so I guess you can believe what you want. But I can not see it that way, The evidence shows otherwise. Just take paul for what he said, and try not to make him appear to say something else.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The reason Jesus came was more than just to give salvation, but also, to bring healing to our body as Jesus did by example, and debt cancellation, The is the year of jubilee! A never-ending year of jubilee!

then why do we die?

if God healed our bodies and made them perfect like we are perfectly saved. we would never get sick and we would never die.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You can disagree, many do. When I read something in the Bible, I try to look at it through the filter of the whole scripture, not one verse, or even one chapter alone. And based on what I have read about healing, knowing Paul would have known then same things; that is what I look it, and how Paul could not have issues with his eyes or other parts of his body (at least not for long). Just look at the example of faith he showed when he was bitten by a snake...... I don't think know I would not have been so calm!

or we could look at the bible through the lense of our belief system and see only what we want to see.

I know why paul was calm, because he considered all the pain and suffering he went through as a momentary light affliction. To be absent from the body was to be present with the lord.

so what could a snake do to him but take his life??

 

[Hidden In Him]

But to expand upon that idea... Are you suggesting that every time we are under the weather we should pray and ask God what it is for? Every sniffle? Or just when we have the idea that it may be something more?

The common cold? No. We usually already know (or figure out pretty quickly) when it's something like that.

But you bring up a good point. It's when we think it could a serious case of Covid or something potentially terminal or disabling that we need to figure out what's going on, and resist it.

That's another thing. Some may teach different but staying free of milder ailments is not the easiest thing to do, and when they get there they may stay a little while. I no longer get sick often (maybe once every third year or so now), but poison ivy makes a run at me every single year. Not fun. But I know how to deal with it better all the time. I mean aside from scratching like a dog night and day until it goes away.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why did they waste time chasing people around with cloth Paul touched if they could have just done it themselves every single time? (Acts 19:12 for reference)

Well now here is a very interesting question...

Let me come back to that one, Lol.

3) I don't know what I was thinking after that my brain is out of it. I had a point and we'll find it again someday.

If we could vote for thread winners at this forum, yours would have won it for sure, LoL!

 

[ScottA]

The common cold? No. We usually already know (or figure out pretty quickly) when it's something like that.

But you bring up a good point. It's when we think it could a serious case of Covid or something potentially terminal or disabling that we need to figure out what's going on, and resist it.

That's another thing. Some may teach different but staying free of milder ailments is not the easiest thing to do, and when they get there they may stay a little while. I no longer get sick often (maybe once every third year or so now), but poison ivy makes a run at me every single year. Not fun. But I know how to deal with it better all the time. I mean aside from scratching like a dog night and day until it goes away.

Try Poison Oak Drops.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'd say for others, yes, but for ourselves, why would we have to know beforehand?

Because we'd wanna know if we need to be repenting of something.

Is the real question whether or not I should be enduring this particular illness? Is this one an illness that is intended to remain with me to train me? Or should I be being healed of it, IF I weren't so doubleminded about it?

Yes.

Now the idea that physical illnesses can "train" us for something doesn't always sit well with the Faith crowd, and I have to say I tend to agree. Some will say it trains you to be faithful to God in all circumstances, but this comes off as ... well, a little sadistic to tell you the truth. Servants of Christ down through the ages have suffered at the hands of the Devil's servants enough already to have God adding to it through striking the righteous with physical afflictions.

But think of it this way: A soldier in war does indeed become more and more trained to endure battle through the hardships he faces. It's called becoming battle-hardened. But the training he goes through in Boot Camp only last for a time. When he gets to the battlefield, his fellow soldiers aren't going to be kicking him in the seat of the pants left and right to toughen him up more. If he needed that, he never would have made it out of Boot Camp to begin with. The sufferings we have to go through as soldiers of Christ are similar I think. Is it possible He puts us through some tougher things early Himself? Yes, but ultimately it's to endure what the ENEMY will put him through.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Try Poison Oak Drops.

Ok. I use a scrub that has medicinal qualities as well, so it's kinda like scratching and healing at the same time, LoL.

Works well.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I don't know what some people think it is, but Faith teaching is simply believing the Word of God to matter what it looks like!

WHich, of course isn't "BIBLICAL FAITH" at all, but a "personal decision" to PRESUME that something in the Bible belongs to you - NOW.

And, of course WHEN it doesn't work, it's ALL YOUR FAULT for not Believeing hard enough, or not having "Strong enough faith", or having a bad "profession", etc. etc.

The fact is that Biblical Faith is ALWAY GIFTED - i.e. God's Word TO YOU, letting you know what God's WILL/Purpose in the situation is. Just like Peter and the cripple - "Such as I HAVE, give I thee" Pete wasn't even surprised when the cripple began running around. He KNEW what he had to minister.

In Pentecostal churches, however, we know that when you pray for the sick, nothing generally happens, but occasionally, we're favorably surprised and somebody really is HEALED!!!

I'm dying of Advanced Coronary Artery disease, and Congestive heart failure. I'm fully aware from the written Word, that God CAN and DOES heal stuff like that. I BELIEVE HIS WORD, that He's JEHOVA RAPHA - "the Lord that healeth thee".

I have ZERO FAITH that God has any intention of healing me - NOW. However He's been sustaining me in my situation for about 30 YEARS now (the doctors gave me until 2004, so the joke's on them). And it doesn't matter if He NEVER heals me. God Heals when His will is to do so.

 

[ScottA]

Ok. I use a scrub that has medicinal qualities as well, so it's kinda like scratching and healing at the same time, LoL.

Works well.

The drops are a preventative, to create an immunity so you never get it. (Can I say "immunity?" )

 

[Hidden In Him]

Training, though, not judgment. Hebrews 12 uses the word that means to train as you would a child, where it says chastisement. Disciplining would be a good translation, that is, to instill a discipline in a person.

Ok, now this is an interesting post (the entire one), so let me try and treat it without necessarily wanting to offend you in any way by saying something that sounds callous.

First of all, with an issue as serious as this one, you want to make sure you rightly divide, and the text in Hebrews 12 you are referencing is about suffering persecution in particular. That's why he begins the teaching with, "You have not yet resisted unto blood." The discipline of God being referred there was of Him allowing us to suffer for our faith. Transferring this to physical ailments might be a bit out of context...

I've learned that I don't really need to wonder about these things, about whether or not this or that is intended to remain in m life as disciplining, or that it may be healed, or that it's neither, but it's going to run its course because God isn't interfering with the natural order of things.

I have a physical condition at the moment that's going to result in the loss of several teeth soon. My understanding from God, IF I do understand, is that this is the progression of a condition He initiated before I was born, that it would bring an amazing harvest in my life a few years ago, and that it would then play itself out as such things do.

I don't know specifically what you are referring to here in how it would bring a harvest in your life... maybe you mean it would produce humility and greater submission in you? I suppose that could have a purpose, yes... But it seems a bit like punishment when viewed that way (which it might not be. Just an ailment), and in such a case you would want to find out why...

Again, this is a sensitive issue, so I am treading as lightly as I know how here. Let me just share this. My whole father's side doesn't have great teeth, so I've had a bunch of cavities over the years and several root canals. Some of the stuff in back I just had pulled, but now, I'm getting to where I'm not interested in losing any more. I intend on producing teaching videos in the future, and I don't wanna look like a guy with no teeth in his head when something strikes me funny and I laugh, Lol. So I am believing God that my days of losing teeth are over, and they will be. If I have to spend a bunch of money on dental work to keep my smile so be it.

Understand what I am saying? I suppose maybe it depends upon one's circumstances whether he should be resisting or accepting a particular condition.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In Pentecostal churches, however, we know that when you pray for the sick, nothing generally happens, but occasionally, we're favorably surprised and somebody really is HEALED!!!

LoL. Yes, that's often the case, although our sister Mayflower was testifying earlier that her husband had his knees healed during a recent service.

Sorry to her about your condition, Bob, and your testimony would fit in line with some of the things Marks is saying. I don't deny that God can have a purpose in not healing us for certain reasons. I think for me, believing in the gifts of the Spirit as you do, I would at least advocate for seeking the Lord for an answer as to why, however.

Have you sought Him for the reason why before? (i.e. why you have not been healed)

 

[marks]

but this comes off as ... well, a little sadistic to tell you the truth.

I don't see a difference between inner and outer afflictions. It's all one to me, and God uses all of them which He allows, at least as I see it.

Much love!

 

[DuckieLady]

Well now here is a very interesting question...

Let me come back to that one, Lol.


If we could vote for thread winners at this forum, yours would have won it for sure, LoL!

Well now here is a very interesting question...

Let me come back to that one, Lol.


If we could vote for thread winners at this forum, yours would have won it for sure, LoL!

Lol!

Let me know if you do. I really do like that story.


The Seven Sons of Sceva are in that story also. They, too, try to rebuke spirits in "Jesus name" and are attacked by a demon, run out "naked and bleeding."

The story grew and the name of Jesus was held with high regard, and it seems to me that part of the reason is these members must have been involved in some sort of sorcery, because the next step seems to be to burn a lot of scrolls.

So, I'm still conflicted, but I would ***assume*** sorcery or some type of sin is what caused the Seven Sons to be incapable of casting out demonic spirits.

I don't see anywhere in Corinthians where casting out demons is a "gift."

So since ADHD i have to look

Matthew 16:17-18

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


That verse to me does not seem to be individually imparted, but universal.
So maybe you're right @Hidden In Him


But I can't say everyone will be healed, because who knows God's plan and sometimes it is time for us to go home. God planned our days.
/I can be objective/

I wrote all of my history reports in the form of comic strips. I have a desire to tell you that. So much coffee. Like a cup and a half of another cup.