Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Eternally Grateful]

Yeh I wrote that wrong for sure. I realized later when Hidden mentioned it. It is sad He had to, but thankful for the ark that preserved life.

Amen to that!

And amen to Christ. Without him we would all die in the flood of eternity without God

 

[DuckieLady]

Ok. I use a scrub that has medicinal qualities as well, so it's kinda like scratching and healing at the same time, LoL.

Works well.

I'm lost. Did you get tainted by poison oak?

Fels Naptha laundry soap should remove the actual poison. Very common survivalist remedy. It should be in every hiker/explorers first aid kit.

Fels Naptha Soap, Poison Ivy, Poison Oak and Sumac - PREPAREDNESS ADVICE


It is the only thing that even removes poison sumac and grease easily. Sent a some to my mom when she got attacked by mosquitos to draw out the poison.

They're like 98 cents at Wal-Mart last I checked.

 

[Faithbuilders]

1. well give your right arm, if people actually researched history, they would see that is a general pun that people say when they care about someone.

2. When we say it, we usually say, you would give it to me if I need it.

3. With paul, and in history in pauls day we do not see that used as a term or saying for showing ones love.

4. With paul. He did not say, If I needed it, I know you would give it to me.

5. We have paul writting, in large letters. why would he need to do that if he could see? He would not. Because the onje doing the writing for him wrote normal. there was an inherit difference in the writing because of a issue

6. Paul also spoke plainly of a physical infirmity (illness or sickness) in the verse which was mentioned.

so I guess you can believe what you want. But I can not see it that way, The evidence shows otherwise. Just take paul for what he said, and try not to make him appear to say something else.

1) True, but we keep better records than they did back then
2) No, I don't, nor do the people that I know; I have sead "I would give my right arm to my wife"
3) In the Bible, I find something is recorded often only once to show a sample of what is done. They did not have the means we do now to record everything, like we do today
4) Could be assumed as part of the "saying"
5) If he was writing in large print for himself, he would not have brought attention to it. He was writing that way for the church, to bring a point across.
6) I don't deny symptoms of some sickness came on him, it prevented him from travailing at the time. But He was growing in faith, and we do know that he was healed, cause he did travel again.

I just believe simply what the bible says! And it simply does not mater what a person experiences... the Bible says, "I am the Lord your God Who healeth thee"

 

[Lambano]

I'm lost. Did you get tainted by poison oak?

Fels Naptha laundry soap should remove the actual poison. Very common survivalist remedy. It should be in every hiker/explorers first aid kit.

Fels Naptha Soap, Poison Ivy, Poison Oak and Sumac - PREPAREDNESS ADVICE


It is the only thing that even removes poison sumac and grease easily. Sent a some to my mom when she got attacked by mosquitos to draw out the poison.

They're like 98 cents at Wal-Mart last I checked.

I found that hacking away at poison oak with a weed-whacker while wearing shorts is a really, really bad idea. The weed-whacker chopped up the leaves and sputtered the oils up and down my legs, and the doctor at the Urgent Care said it was the worst case he'd seen in 27 years of practice. And the insomnia that was a side-effect from the cortisteroids he prescribed kept me awake for a week. However, during that time, I had a prayer experience that provided a spiritual healing that I really, really needed.

 

[Faithbuilders]

then why do we die?

if God healed our bodies and made them perfect like we are perfectly saved. we would never get sick and we would never die.

Yes, our bodies die, but it does not have to be done because of sickness.... it is time to go home... the heart just stops; the doctors call it a heart attack, but it could be just going home.

 

[Faithbuilders]

or we could look at the bible through the lense of our belief system and see only what we want to see.

I know why paul was calm, because he considered all the pain and suffering he went through as a momentary light affliction. To be absent from the body was to be present with the lord.

so what could a snake do to him but take his life??

Is was calm because he knew he would not die, because Jesus said, it would not harm him! And true to his faith, he did not even get sick.

There are just to many scriptures about the healing of God for us. People are basing what they believe on experience... there own, Paul, someone then know... The Bible says, "the Word of God is true, let every man be a liar" I like to say, "let every man, or experience be a liar if it does not line up with the Word of God."

 

[Faithbuilders]

WHich, of course isn't "BIBLICAL FAITH" at all, but a "personal decision" to PRESUME that something in the Bible belongs to you - NOW.

And, of course WHEN it doesn't work, it's ALL YOUR FAULT for not Believeing hard enough, or not having "Strong enough faith", or having a bad "profession", etc. etc.

The fact is that Biblical Faith is ALWAY GIFTED - i.e. God's Word TO YOU, letting you know what God's WILL/Purpose in the situation is. Just like Peter and the cripple - "Such as I HAVE, give I thee" Pete wasn't even surprised when the cripple began running around. He KNEW what he had to minister.

In Pentecostal churches, however, we know that when you pray for the sick, nothing generally happens, but occasionally, we're favorably surprised and somebody really is HEALED!!!

I'm dying of Advanced Coronary Artery disease, and Congestive heart failure. I'm fully aware from the written Word, that God CAN and DOES heal stuff like that. I BELIEVE HIS WORD, that He's JEHOVA RAPHA - "the Lord that healeth thee".

I have ZERO FAITH that God has any intention of healing me - NOW. However He's been sustaining me in my situation for about 30 YEARS now (the doctors gave me until 2004, so the joke's on them). And it doesn't matter if He NEVER heals me. God Heals when His will is to do so.

Yes, everything is the bible belongs to us, do we receive it always, NOW... not always, but the bible say WHEN WE PRAY believe that we received it... not when we receive it! And you SHALL have them! (mark 11:24) But it will happen according to YOUR faith! You have already said where your faith is.

 

[DuckieLady]

I found that hacking away at poison oak with a weed-whacker while wearing shorts is a really, really bad idea. The weed-whacker chopped up the leaves and sputtered the oils up and down my legs, and the doctor at the Urgent Care said it was the worst case he'd seen in 27 years of practice. And the insomnia that was a side-effect from the cortisteroids he prescribed kept me awake for a week. However, during that time, I had a prayer experience that provided a spiritual healing that I really, really needed.

WOW. I never experienced it myself. I only know about it from studying prepper/survival stuff when I was setting up a kit... Eek!

Man I can only imagine how bad that must have been.

Glad to hear about the prayer experience though... Another example of God using something for his good.

 

[Lambano]

Glad to hear about the prayer experience though... Another example of God using something for his good.

It changed my life. Really. It made two weeks of intense itching worthwhile. But I still recommend knowing what poison oak and poison ivy look like and staying out of it!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1) True, but we keep better records than they did back then

So because of that I should assume somethign that is not written. Why?

2) No, I don't, nor do the people that I know; I have sead "I would give my right arm to my wife"

I would too. If she needed it..

3) In the Bible, I find something is recorded often only once to show a sample of what is done. They did not have the means we do now to record everything, like we do today

So again I rest my belief system on something that was never said. I just make it up as if it happened (they used it as a pun)

4) Could be assumed as part of the "saying"

ASSumed again. You have far to many assumptions for me. If I have to assume that much, I would look for somethign more realistic.

5) If he was writing in large print for himself, he would not have brought attention to it. He was writing that way for the church, to bring a point across.

yep he did, That it was HIM WRITING WITH HIS OWN HANDS (they knew his handwriting and could tell it was him. Which means paul write in large letters as a norm.. Because they recognized it.

6) I don't deny symptoms of some sickness came on him, it prevented him from travailing at the time. But He was growing in faith, and we do know that he was healed, cause he did travel again.

I just believe simply what the bible says! And it simply does not mater what a person experiences... the Bible says, "I am the Lord your God Who healeth thee"

He healed me 40 some years ago. The best healing I could ever wish for.

My faith and rest is in him, no matter what happens to my physical body. If I get sick and he heals me, praise God, If he says no, Praise God, I will worship and serve him in either case..

I will use that sickness also for his good.. To share his love with others.

 

[Faithbuilders]

So because of that I should assume somethign that is not written. Why?

I would too. If she needed it..

So again I rest my belief system on something that was never said. I just make it up as if it happened (they used it as a pun)
ASSumed again. You have far to many assumptions for me. If I have to assume that much, I would look for somethign more realistic.

yep he did, That it was HIM WRITING WITH HIS OWN HANDS (they knew his handwriting and could tell it was him. Which means paul write in large letters as a norm.. Because they recognized it.


He healed me 40 some years ago. The best healing I could ever wish for.

My faith and rest is in him, no matter what happens to my physical body. If I get sick and he heals me, praise God, If he says no, Praise God, I will worship and serve him in either case..

I will use that sickness also for his good.. To share his love with others.

No, I don't assume, I take what I know from the whole Bible, and who God is, and like Sherlock Holmes said, I eliminate all the possibilities, whatever is left, however improbable must be the truth. Based on what I know about God, and His Word; and knowing Paul studied the Word, and spent time learning from the Apostles; I eliminate the possibility that Paul could have been sick for long, or have, or at least keep eye issues!

And this conversation on Paul is getting away from the point. Because it really does not mater if paul was, sick, if he had eye issues. It would not mater if he died from sickness.... it does not change the 100's of scriptures that talk about healing, through out the Bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I found that hacking away at poison oak with a weed-whacker while wearing shorts is a really, really bad idea. The weed-whacker chopped up the leaves and sputtered the oils up and down my legs, and the doctor at the Urgent Care said it was the worst case he'd seen in 27 years of practice. And the insomnia that was a side-effect from the cortisteroids he prescribed kept me awake for a week. However, during that time, I had a prayer experience that provided a spiritual healing that I really, really needed.

Great testimony! Awesome how God took a bad thank and still worked it for good!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, our bodies die, but it does not have to be done because of sickness.... it is time to go home... the heart just stops; the doctors call it a heart attack, but it could be just going home.

If a heart stops, it is usually due to heart disease of some kind. A heart does not just stop.

A heart attack is caused by a blood clot. A blood clot is caused due to illness, Bad diet, and many other possible issues.

One who was completely healed of all sickness and the cause of the fall would never die. They woudl never get sick.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is was calm because he knew he would not die, because Jesus said, it would not harm him! And true to his faith, he did not even get sick.

There are just to many scriptures about the healing of God for us. People are basing what they believe on experience... there own, Paul, someone then know... The Bible says, "the Word of God is true, let every man be a liar" I like to say, "let every man, or experience be a liar if it does not line up with the Word of God."

Lol.

Thats not what Paul said. I quoted what paul said about all the afflictions he suffered.

He went through it because he knew to be absent was to be present.

He looked to eternity, Not to this lifetime. He was more worried about others than himself.

I must ask. Why are you so worried about self? Shoud you not be focused on others?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, I don't assume,

Um yes you do. You stated you could find now place where it was written. So you have to assume that is what happened.

I take what I know from the whole Bible, and who God is, and like Sherlock Holmes said, I eliminate all the possibilities, whatever is left, however improbable must be the truth. Based on what I know about God, and His Word; and knowing Paul studied the Word, and spent time learning from the Apostles; I eliminate the possibility that Paul could have been sick for long, or have, or at least keep eye issues!

And this conversation on Paul is getting away from the point. Because it really does not mater if paul was, sick, if he had eye issues. It would not mater if he died from sickness.... it does not change the 100's of scriptures that talk about healing, through out the Bible.

Nor does it talk about the 100’s of times where people continued and was not healed.

You will only see what you want to see. That includes all of us.

Yes there are 100’s even thousands of healings. But we can;t ignore the time God did not heal.. Otherwise. We taint scripture and come up with false beliefs

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Yes, everything is the bible belongs to us, do we receive it always, NOW... not always, but the bible say WHEN WE PRAY believe that we received it... not when we receive it! And you SHALL have them! (mark 11:24) But it will happen according to YOUR faith! You have already said where your faith is.

SO how do you go about (Mark 11:22-24) "Believing IN YOUR HEART - NOTHING DOUBTING" - when you have doubt??? what's your "work around"???

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes, everything is the bible belongs to us, do we receive it always, NOW... not always, but the bible say WHEN WE PRAY believe that we received it... not when we receive it! And you SHALL have them! (mark 11:24) But it will happen according to YOUR faith! You have already said where your faith is.

SO how do you go about (Mark 11:22-24) "Believing IN YOUR HEART - NOTHING DOUBTING" - when you have doubt??? what's your "work around"???

Taking a break from this one for a day or two, guys. Remember, be polite and respectful.

@FluffyYellowDuck, @Lambano, @Eternally Grateful, @Mayflower, @Waiting on him. Thanks for your contributions, guys. You've made it an interesting thread.
- H

 

[Paul Christensen]

This subject came up in a recent conversation on another thread, and I realized I don't think it's ever been discussed here on this forum before.

That said, the above is a Faith teaching, with which I am familiar. Be advised: I want all contributions to this thread to be respectful of the other people's positions. If not, you may be reported by yours truly. But there is both truth and falsehood in Faith teaching. Any post given should have a scriptural basis, so please post in full the verses you are using to establish your argument.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

There were a lot of pages in the thread and it would have taken me all of today and the rest of the week to read them. So I read just a few.

This is my position on divine healing:

All the examples of miraculous healing attached to Paul's ministry were part of his preaching of the Gospel to the unconverted. I could not find any reference to "Healing Conferences" directed at Christian believers in the New Testament. Although all who came to Jesus were healed, this was during His earthly ministry to the "lost sheep of Israel", and miraculous healing to Gentiles happened after some persistence by the Gentile woman, and the fact that the Centurion had ridden a long distance to reach Jesus for the healing of his servant.

In my view, divine healing is not guaranteed on demand by Christian believers. James instructs what believers should do when they are sick - they should call for the elders of the church. But there is no instruction that the elders or anyone else to solicit guaranteed healing ministry to sick people.

There are many books written to guarantee the "right" formula for healing, but putting their instructions into practice doesn't achieve the result they promise. Even a healing manual that said that if we do it exactly how Jesus did it would achieve the desired result, actually didn't. So what does this show us? That there is no guaranteed formula that sidesteps the sovereignty of the Holy Spirit.

So there are no surprises that Paul reported of his own physical infirmities; in fact he glories in them, because when he is weak in himself, Christ is strong through him. He says in 2 Corinthians 1 that while in Asia he and his ministry team were so stressed that they despaired of life. He reports that Epaphroditus became sick through burnout. So there are no surprises that others on his ministry team became sick at times. This shows that there is no guarantee of perfect health for Christians, even those in ministry. These instances of members of Paul's ministry team becoming sick shows that Paul did not believe in guaranteed health or healing for Christian believers. There is no record anywhere that Paul went up to a sick believer and telling him that Jesus will heal him. His most notable miracle was the healing of a lame man when he said in a loud voice, "Stand upright on your feet!" And the man was instantly healed. But by all accounts the man was unconverted, although he and many people who witnessed the healing turned to Christ.

I know a person on CF a number of years ago who complained that they did not receive their healing, as if they thought they had an automatic right to it after asking God. But the Scripture says, "By prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God and the peace of God that passes all understanding will keep your heart and mind in Christ Jesus." So what is guaranteed here is the peace of God as the result of supplication, not necessarily what is being requested. This is the sovereignty of God. We can make our requests and have the peaceful assurance that God has heard our prayer, but we must exercise faith and patience to await the outcome in God's time; and that if the outcome does not eventuate then we trust Him that He has a good reason for not providing the healing.

It is not unexpected that people on the thread come up with all sorts of comments and theories about the whys and wherefores of healing, when in reality, they have no control over whether a person is healed or not. Something think that they should have control and be able to wave their "magic wand" and the person is immediately healed. They say that Jesus healed everyone who came to Him, therefore if we are not healed when we ask for it, it is because we have sinned in some way, or do not have enough faith to be healed. These people can't admit that we have no control over the sovereignty of God. The clay cannot tell the potter what to do with it.

John Wesley's horse got healed of lameness as the result of prayer. The horse had neither sinned or had faith to be healed, and yet God healed it, because He decided that it was best for the horse to be healed so that Wesley could continue on his way without discomfort or further damage to the horse. Therefore if God decides to heal an unconverted person or a believer, then He will do it, but not before. Healing comes through the undeserved grace of God, and if people expect to be healed as the result of prayer, then grace is no more grace. The fact is, we can only ask - no more than that.

There are those who say, "God has promised healing in His Word, therefore He has to heal!" This implies that if a person is not healed, then God is not being true to His own promises. But such is not the case. There is no guarantee in the New Testament that God is obliged to heal anyone on request or on demand, and He is not locked into any formula that guarantees healing. Yes, He will hear and note our prayers, but the decision is up to Him, and Him alone whether a person is healed or not.

If the sickness results in death for the believer, well, it is an instance of "absent from the body, present with the Lord". The believer wins either way. The reason why more healing happens among unconverted people is that the issue is more crucial, because death for an unconverted person means an eternity in hell. Therefore it is more important that healing of terminal illnesses accompanies the preaching of the Gospel to the unconverted. This is where cessationists, when they find themselves before the Lord in the Judgment, may be required to account for the death of unconverted people who might have turned to Christ if signs and wonders were present when they heard the Gospel. The Lord may require the blood of those unconverted sick people at the cessationists' hands because they stood in the way of them being healed through their unbelief.

 

[Paul Christensen]

SO how do you go about (Mark 11:22-24) "Believing IN YOUR HEART - NOTHING DOUBTING" - when you have doubt??? what's your "work around"???

Paul said something interesting in the first part of Romans. He asks, "What right do you have to judge others when you do the same things yourself?" In saying this, Paul shows the hypocrisy of those who judge others when they are in the same boat as them. The context is that there are those who sit in judgment on those who break God's laws as if they themselves are totally righteous and pure; when the reality is that they are just as much lawbreaking as those whom they judge.

The same principles applies to those who maintain that if a person has enough faith they should be healed of their sickness or disability. So if a sick believer does not get healed as the result of prayer, they are quick to judge that the believer does not have enough faith to be healed. But what happens when they themselves get sick - when they wake up with a sore throat and running nose through contracting a cold? What happens when they pray for healing? Usually nothing, so they take the cold medication, use nose spray and if the cold is severe they go to the doctor. So what has happened to their faith?

So, after judging another person for not having enough faith to be healed, here they are in the same boat! What do we call that? Hypocrisy. Expecting others to have faith for healing when they don't have the same faith when they get sick.

One can quote all the Scripture he wants, but the reality is that we all get sick at times and no matter how much we pray and quote Scripture, healing usually doesn't come, and we are left to treat the symptoms until healing happens naturally, or that we need medical intervention to achieve the results.

 

[Paul Christensen]

1) True, but we keep better records than they did back then
2) No, I don't, nor do the people that I know; I have sead "I would give my right arm to my wife"
3) In the Bible, I find something is recorded often only once to show a sample of what is done. They did not have the means we do now to record everything, like we do today
4) Could be assumed as part of the "saying"
5) If he was writing in large print for himself, he would not have brought attention to it. He was writing that way for the church, to bring a point across.
6) I don't deny symptoms of some sickness came on him, it prevented him from travailing at the time. But He was growing in faith, and we do know that he was healed, cause he did travel again.

I just believe simply what the bible says! And it simply does not mater what a person experiences... the Bible says, "I am the Lord your God Who healeth thee"

That was said to the Israelites who came out of Egypt. It doesn't seem to work with modern believers somehow. I wonder if the Scripture doesn't directly apply to us in terms of automatic guaranteed healing?