Can Someone Please Define What a Christian is?

[Cooper]

and how do you feel your works stack up Cooper?

You are the best judge of that, I'm too close to see myself as others see me, so you tell me.
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[quietthinker]

You are the best judge of that, I'm too close to see myself as others see me, so you tell me.
.

you made the statement, 'What does God say? I suppose we are known to God by our works, and what we say, which would include our teaching.' ....the question is to you and you say you don't know....hmmmm.....you can't judge yourself, do you think you can judge me?
If my relationship with God was dependent on my works....hmmmmm
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[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I have been reading some stuff on this board, and I don't mean some things, I mean some stuff.(!) [
I just want to know, please indulge me, what everyone's definition of Christian is? [/QUOTE\]

What is a Christian? Ideas vary on this:

(1)Anybody who believes in Jesus Christ.
(2)Anybody who was baptized in a Christian church.
(3)A person who belongs to and attends a Christian church.
(4)Anybody who does no harm to his neighbor and helps out when he can.
(5)Someone who lives by the Bible.
(6)Only those who have been “born again.”
(7)Only those who believe in the pope.

Yes, opinions are many and varied.
However can genuine Christianity approve war, secular attitudes and so many other contradictory activities that have been condoned in Christendom over the last few decades? What is genuine Christianity? And is modern Christianity genuine?
A person labeled as a Christian or a religious organization labeled as Christianity does not necessarily mean that person or religious organization is genuine. It might be a forgery.

Today hundreds of millions of people are “labeled” Christianity. But how can you tell if a person/persons are genuine Christians, or is genuine Christianity? Well you can check your conduct and beliefs against the Bible record of the teachings of Jesus Christ and his apostles. Then you can examine how early Christians applied those teachings. Thirdly, you can analyze your own form of religion to see if it fits the mold that Christ set. Then ask yourself, Is my religion genuine Christianity? Do I practice it?

Let's first take warfare. Jesus said to his Apostles at Matthew 26:52 All those who take the sword will perish by the sword.
The apostle Paul wrote: “Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. If possible, as far as it depends upon you, be peaceable with all men.” “Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor.”
Also, he said: “We do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly.”

Tertullian, who was a Christian writer born more than 100 years after Christ’s death, helps us to see how many early Christians viewed warfare and participation in it: “I think we must first inquire whether warfare is proper at all for Christians. Shall it be held lawful to make an occupation of the sword, when the Lord proclaims that he who uses the sword shall perish by the sword? And shall the son of peace take part in the battle when it does not become him even to sue at law?”

What is Christendom’s record as far as being a peacemaker and a peacekeeper? How does the religion in which you were raised stand on this issue? Ask yourself: Which nations initiated the two world wars that caused so much slaughter and suffering in this century? Were they Moslem, Hindu or Buddhist? No, they were the so-called Christian nations of Europe, urged on by Catholic and Protestant politicians and clergy.

At Matthew 22:39 Jesus Christ taught: You must love your neighbor as yourself.
So ask yourself, do I want to be robbed, beaten, or murdered? So on that basis no genuine Christian can commit such crimes against his fellowman, for Christ said: “All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them.”

The apostle Peter was specific in his counsel when he spoke to fellow Christians at 1 Peter 4:15 “Let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer.”

What does Tertullian have to say about Christian conduct in his day? “In your long lists of those accused of many and various atrocities, has any assassin, any pickpocket, any man guilty of seduction, or stealing bathers’ clothes, had his name entered as being a Christian? It is always with your folk the prison is steaming. You find no Christian there, except simply as being such; or if one is there as something else, a Christian he is no longer.”

What is the present crime situation in those so called “Christian” nations? Soaring crime rates, overcrowded prisons and people afraid to go out on the streets in many cities because of the threat of falling victim to criminals. Is it not true that many of these thugs and delinquents still bear the “Christian label” as evidenced by the fact that they receive the Mass, or Communion? Even High Masses have been celebrated for known mobsters. Virtually no disciplinary action is taken to keep the ranks clean. Is this the evidence of genuine Christianity?

Christianity's founder, Jesus Christ said on the matter of sexual immorality at Mark 7:21,22: "from inside, out of the heart of man, injurious reasonings issue forth: fornication, acts of adultery, loose conduct, all these wicked things defile a man.

The Apostle Paul agrees with this when he was inspired to write at 1 Corinthians 6:9,10: "Neither fornicators, . . . nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men will inherit God’s kingdom.”

A second century Christian named Athenagoras wrote concerning Christian practice of his day, "We are so far from practicing promiscuous intercourse, that it is not lawful among us to indulge even a lustful look"
Tertullian wrote, " The Christian confines himself to the female sex, The Christian husband has nothing to do with any but his own wife.

Has modern Christendom followed the early Christian model of conduct regarding morality? Are the ‘technique and materials’ the same as the original version? In this respect the previously quoted Malcolm Muggeridge was prompted to write: “In matters like divorce, homosexuality and the so-called New Morality the tide is flowing strongly against the traditional Christian position; often with the connivance of eminent churchmen.

In Christendom’s domain fornication, adultery and homosexuality are rife everywhere. The consequent crop of venereal diseases is now reaching pandemic proportions. Does that portray the genuine Christian picture? Or is it evidence that we are dealing with a fake, a sordid imitation?

What about political involvement? Christ said regarding his followers at John 17:16; 18:36 "they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world"
Jesus said to Pilate: "My kingdom is no part of the world... My kingdom is not from this source.

In ancient Rome, political office and the state religion were closely entwined. How did the early Christians react toward that situation? The Encyclopædia Britannica explains: “Christians of the first three centuries turned decisively against the state religion of Rome . . . Christians viewed themselves as citizens of the coming heavenly city and as pilgrims and strangers on earth . . . as members of the Kingdom of God . . . which was dissolving its ties to this passing world and thereby also to the political order.”

How does modern “Christianity” stand in regard to politics? It's Divided from top to bottom. There are clergy identified with just about every political party that exists, ranging from Catholic priests who support Communism in Spain and Latin America to Protestant pastors who serve in the British parliament or identify themselves with the political right wing in the United States. The clergy’s record of abject submission, with few exceptions, to Nazism and Fascism during recent decades in Germany, Italy and Spain is well known to informed persons.

Also, what about the flattering titles applied to the clergy in so many of the churches? Jesus told his disciples: “Do not you be called Rabbi [“My great one; My excellent one”—reminiscent of such ecclesiastical titles as “Reverend,” “Most Reverend,” etc.], for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.” (Matthew 23:8, 9) This makes it evident that no clergy laity distinction was intended in genuine Christianity.

What about preaching the good news? In his sermon on the mount Jesus said: "You are the light of the world... let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens. Matthew 5:14-16

This encouragement to shine in word and deed is echoed in the apostle Paul’s words: “Through him [Jesus] let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name.” (Hebrews 13:15) The privilege and duty to preach the Christian “good news” is incumbent upon every follower of Christ.


Did the early Christians as a body “make public declaration to his name”? Or were they immediately stifled after the death of the apostles by the imposition of a clergy class? The following quotation from Dr. Neander’s History of the Christian Religion and Church During the Three First Centuries should answer that question:
Celsus [2nd century C.E.], the first writer against Christianity, makes it a matter of mockery, that labourers, shoemakers, farmers, the most uninformed and clownish of men, should be zealous preachers of the Gospel.”
Ask yourself these probing questions: Does my religion encourage and prepare me actively to preach my Christian beliefs? Does the spirit of my Christianity impel me to go to the homes of other people to find those in need of real Christianity? If not, which Christian religion really does carry out that Christ-given command?—Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 9:16.

 

[Cooper]

you made the statement, 'What does God say? I suppose we are known to God by our works, and what we say, which would include our teaching.' ....the question is to you and you say you don't know....hmmmm.....you can't judge yourself, do you think you can judge me?
If my relationship with God was dependent on my works....hmmmmm
.

Of course I can judge myself, but obviously it would be biased, and that is why I would appreciate an objective opinion.

You know what they say, "If only we could see ourselves as others see us."

So now is your chance.
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[amadeus]

All we can do I feel is to stay true to the word, plant the seed and leave it to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. If we take on too much responsibility, it becomes a burden, and Jesus said, "my burden is light."
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Amen!

 

[Aunty Jane]

That's a good point. Does the doctrine lead you, or others, to sin? Does the doctrine lead you, or others, to worshiping a god of your own devising being idolatry? Does the doctrine lead you to cleaving to a wrongful apprehension of the real character of God and therefore directly affecting your trust and faith in Him?

Yes....and would we know if the things we believe are in error?
Will God correct us from believing the wrong things?

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12....(ESV)
“The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

That is sobering.......We may get all the way to the judgment and be confident in our beliefs and then have all our hopes dashed with the rejection of the one we call our “Lord”. (Matthew 7:21-23) How could he say “I never knew you”?....and call us “workers of lawlessness”?

Now is the time to evaluate all that we have been taught to believe....the separation of the “sheep from the goats” is not far away......so who are we? God knows.....

 

[Cooper]

Amen! The more we have received the more God expects from us. If people really have better doctrines, then will God not be expecting better results?

Yes, especially if we offer our life as a conduit for the Lord to do His will through us. As Jesus said, "not my will, but thy will be done. It is the Lord who does the work in peoples hearts not we ourselves. I feel it was the same for the disciples who put Jesus first in all they did. They were the messengers, His will to do. We can do nothing for the Lord unless we are one with Him and that means subjecting our lives to Him. All the way through the Bible, God worked through his servants and I offered my life for Him to do with as He wills. But please God, don't stress me out. I cannot bear it.
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[Brakelite]

Yes....and would we know if the things we believe are in error?
Will God correct us from believing the wrong things?

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12....(ESV)
“The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

That is sobering.......We may get all the way to the judgment and be confident in our beliefs and them have all our hopes dashed with the rejection of the one we call our “Lord”. (Matthew 7:21-23) How could he say “I never knew you”?....and call us “workers of lawlessness”?

Now is the time to evaluate all that we have been taught to believe....the separation of the “sheep from the goats” is not far away......so who are we? God knows.....

The most telling phrase in the above is "love of the truth". This is not a live for your present beliefs or your Church's doctrines. It's a love of truth as a principle in your life. It's having a love for truth that requires you to be willing to consider anything you currently believe in as a potential form of deception. It means being open to correction. Are we?

 

[Bob Estey]

I have been reading some stuff on this board, and I don't mean some things, I mean some stuff.(!)

I just want to know, please indulge me, what everyone's definition of Christian is?

Off the top of my head, I'd go with John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The most telling phrase in the above is "love of the truth". This is not a live for your present beliefs or your Church's doctrines. It's a love of truth as a principle in your life. It's having a love for truth that requires you to be willing to consider anything you currently believe in as a potential form of deception. It means being open to correction. Are we?

Absolutely....I could not agree more. The brotherhood that I belong to has had to make many adjustments over the years....and I respect them for it. It takes humility to correct yourself. The "light on the path" continues to grow brighter as we draw ever closer to the conclusion of the whole exercise.....(Proverbs 4:18)

 

[michaelvpardo]

That’s a big fear with me. That the indoctrination blocks.

I'm inclined to believe so, but I also think believing the gospel is dependent upon who you trust. My mom's faith was primarily in her church. She learned to trust God in the trials of life, but her faith was based more upon church teaching and the encouragements of her parents than on biblical truth. She did not regularly read scripture, found it difficult to understand, and justified unbiblical doctrines and practices under the umbrella of tradition.
I don't believe that dead saints are invested with any power to answer prayer and consequently the practice of her faith was beggerly and without power or benefit to anyone but herself.
Then there is the natural tendency to lean on our own understanding rather than simply trust what scripture says. That's a problem common to man and indicates that we're trusting ourselves more than the Lord, a condition scripture calls double-mindedness which also robs us of power.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Yes...it is a matter of choice...we all have the same ones. But no one can come to God’s son without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65)

It is my belief that “the elect” are chosen by God for a specific role in heaven. (Revelation 20:6) These are the ones who receive the Holy Spirit in a way that their earthly subjects do not. Holy Spirit has various roles in scripture, to empower, to comfort, to educate, to convict, to help erring one’s attain to repentance, to endure persecution, and to face death if needs be....IOW, it is God’s power directed to whomever, and wherever it is needed.

To those anointed by it as a token of their heavenly inheritance, (Hebrews 3:1) it convicts those with “the heavenly calling” that their earthly shell (their human flesh) is temporary and that they will shed it and be ‘reborn’ as spirit beings in order to dwell in the heavenly realm, in the presence of Yahweh himself, something mortal humans cannot do.

They live a life like their Master Christ, are dedicated to the doing of God’s will by their “baptism into his death”, meaning that they will die a death like his and experience a resurrection like his, to spirit life in heaven. But these “firstfruits” are not only ones resurrected. These it says, are “resurrected first” because they will take up their positions, ready for the remaining ones to join them when Christ comes to judge the world. The general resurrection that takes place later, will see all those in their graves...”come out”. (John 5:28-29) These are those who will live as subjects of the kingdom along with those who are spared at the judgment.

This is what I believe being “born again” actually means. It’s not an emotional experience, but a token that is preliminary to attaining their heavenly inheritance. This anointing overrides their natural desire to live forever in paradise on earth as God first intended. There was no mention of heaven for Adam because God had provided the means to live forever here on earth....”the tree of life”. The humans had free access to this tree, as long as they were obedient....so logically, everlasting life (not to be confused with immortality) was God’s first purpose for the human race...they were to “fill the earth” with their kind and “subdue” their surroundings until the whole planet resembled the garden of Eden. God supplied them with everything they needed for an everlasting, healthy and enjoyable existence, right here where he placed us. Who told us we needed something better? We know who.

When “the end” comes, as we see it bearing down upon us now, Jesus and his angelic forces will eliminate from existence all who have served the interests of satan on this earth....many believing that they were serving God. (Matthew 7:21-23) These, Jesus says, are those he “never knew”....meaning that they are practicing a form of Christianity that is fraudulent....a counterfeit planted by the devil. Jesus informed us of this situation with his parable of the “wheat and the weeds”......he knows the difference, and during this “time of the end” he is separating them.....only the “wheat” will be invited into the Kingdom that Jesus taught us to pray for.....so that God’s will could “be done on earth as it is in heaven”.....

I see so many concentrating on going to heaven that they don’t seem to realise that this was never God’s purpose for mankind. At the end, God will restore his first purpose for the human race, having the ransom of his precious son guarantee everlasting life for all whom the devil was unable to deceive. We are all being tried and tested.

Revelation 21:2-4 will then have its glorious fulfilment....
“I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

This is what we can look forward to if we have kept ourselves free of the entanglements of the “weeds” and their false teachings. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Those who love what God hates will have no place with him....and time is running out for those who have yet to make a decision about whose interests they are serving. The devil is not called the “deceiver” for nothing.

While i appreciate your thoughtful argument, it runs contrary to the teaching of the apostles in that one doesn't have to physically die in order to be born of His Spirit (if I'm understanding what you've posted.)
It also runs contrary to my experience and that of all the saints that I've known, whose lives were changed in that moment of time when they believed and recieved the "earnest" of the Holy Spirit.
While a person could be self deceived by their experience, no such deception could empower someone to good works and sign gifts such as healing, shutting the mouths of unclean spirits, prophetic uttering, etc., or to the fellowship of His Spirit in the word.
It's a good thing to study scripture, church history, doctrinal dissertations and such, but there is nothing more blessed than to be taught by God through the fellowship of His word and to know Him as your trusted friend.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

John 20:30-31:
So then, many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Okay, is this saying we are saved by belief in a doctrine about Jesus? Or is there an implied trust in the Christ, the Son of God, to give us life?

It is through trust. We aren’t saved by a doctrine but through our trusting. In fact…I would go so far as to say
any and all subsequent gifts we receive at all are only through trusting and waiting. (True righteousness in the inward parts, through trusting. Beginning to understand how to put verses together that seem to us as if they
say two different things in order to have both the bitter and the sweet, through trusting.
But - there are many doctrines of men that cause the ones who swallow them to not heed warnings. So they are dangerous to the man. Many of them end in lack of mercy and lack of forgiveness and an arrogance that says, no, that warning is for others - we be the seed of the Holy Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm inclined to believe so, but I also think believing the gospel is dependent upon who you trust. My mom's faith was primarily in her church. She learned to trust God in the trials of life, but her faith was based more upon church teaching and the encouragements of her parents than on biblical truth. She did not regularly read scripture, found it difficult to understand, and justified unbiblical doctrines and practices under the umbrella of tradition.
I don't believe that dead saints are invested with any power to answer prayer and consequently the practice of her faith was beggerly and without power or benefit to anyone but herself.
Then there is the natural tendency to lean on our own understanding rather than simply trust what scripture says. That's a problem common to man and indicates that we're trusting ourselves more than the Lord, a condition scripture calls double-mindedness which also robs us of power.

I have seen some people who escape the indoctrination by remaining or becoming humble and refusing to judge unbelievers. They say what they’re taught but they don’t do what they’re taught. And God makes a place for them.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Isn’t it more important to ask if following these doctrines breaks fellowship with God?

I don't have children, but I can't imagine a child doing anything that would break fellowship with a loving parent.
The Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of adoption by whom we call out to God "Abba " or Father. This isn't metaphor, but spiritual truth as stated in scripture.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” Romans 8:15

Scripture also asserts that this adoption is revealed in His discipline of us, both a proof of familial relationship and a confirmation that the born again do not walk in perfect obedience, but must grow and learn obedience and trust in his Word.

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:7-9
While the epistle Hebrews was written to Hebrew believers, it still applies to all that recieve Him and identifies those that don't recieve such chastening as "illegitimate and not sons."

 

[michaelvpardo]

Are they a cult... whatever that is?

With little other than Catholic backgrounds we witnessed the testimony of a family living for God in a manner we had never seen previously... nor since. They led us to an assembly where people read the Bible. How very different from my own Catholic experience! So, I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and began to read the Bible for myself.

In 1987 we were gone from them, but the good things of God they manifested were more than words of condemnation.

Who is right? Everyone says that they are, but what does God say?

"There is no one righteous but One, that is God ". The only righteous men in the strictest sense are those accounted as righteous by God for their faith in His Word. But, you will always find argument with people unable to accept what scripture plainly says and remain confident in themselves.

 

[michaelvpardo]

What does God say? I suppose we are known to God by our works, and what we say, which would include our teaching.
.

God knows everything including what's hidden in our thoughts and emotions. I won't provide scriptural support for that, yet it is plainly stated in both old and new testaments. We are "known " by Him in the Biblical sense by intimate relationship as Eve was known by Adam and gave birth to the first born of flesh.
Jesus said that we would be judged by our words, but in context this was in regard to recieving His words or rejecting them.
And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. John 12:47-48

 

[michaelvpardo]

"Much is given and much is required" is quite a responsibility.
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Yes, but having received Him, the responsibility is actually His, not ours.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Phillipians 2:12-13

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"There is no one righteous but One, that is God ". The only righteous men in the strictest sense are those accounted as righteous by God for their faith in His Word. But, you will always find argument with people unable to accept what scripture plainly says and remain confident in themselves.

God counts men to have done the right thing (righteous) when they trust Him and what He has said. Then, the scriptures are for training in what is right in Gods eyes. But just because we know what is right does not mean we can always do what is right. Ex: we know God says to have anger in our heart is to have already murdered. We can know this and agree with this, and yet see we cannot stop doing the murder in our heart. This is meant to make us hunger and thirst for true righteousness on the inside of our cup so that we cry out to God to make us clean. We want to follow Him but find we can’t because we do what we don’t want to do. He does not mean to leave us in that hungering forever and Paul himself did not teach that either.

There is having a deposit and being led by the Spirit and then there is walking in the Spirit. And Paul tells us, walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of your flesh. We are meant to trust Him for that also.

 

[Truther]

I notice the definitions are progressing from simple to more complex as the thread gets longer.

I will simplify it...

A Christian obeys Acts 2:38 to be saved the way the 3000 were at Pentecost and walks in the Spirit afterwards.