Perfection

[Bob Estey]

No, actually you are quoting a revised Bible version.

And the meaning of perfect is in the mental, moral sense, not that we can ever be free of sin while in this flesh.

NT:5046
teleios (tel'-i-os); from NT:5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with NT:3588) completeness:

KJV - of full age, man, perfect.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The idea is 'to be mature'.

Using your logic, I can ignore the entire Bible, claiming it is just someone's defective translation. I don't do that. I consider the Bible holy.

 

[GEN2REV]

Lot of Churches today one won't actually get a real teaching in all of God's Word. And the mark of a true Church is that God's Holy Writ is taught there.

Agreed.

Not sure what that has to do with my post.

I haven't been to church in 30 years. Everything I know/understand came straight from scripture - straight from the Lord.

From His mouth to my soul via my eyes. :)

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You are right. To a certain point. AFTER that point where you understand the purpose is to cry out to God because you are poor and not good and in great need, He does not mean for you to stop asking for whatever you see you lack.

Remember the man who said, what must I do to be saved? Jesus answered him from the tablet that deals with righteousness - loving your neighbor as much as you love yourself. Then He said, and if you want to be perfect, sell all you have and follow Me. That was concerning the second tablet - which is to love God more than you love yourself and your neighbor. And you are right that with men it is not possible, but to move on, you must see with God all things are possible.

But first, He answered the mans question, which was, what must I do to be saved? And Jesus gave him the answer. Righteousness is the…bare minimum. God makes a place for righteous men.

The second thing He said to the man had to do with the tablet that concerns holiness.

With men it is not possible but with God all things are possible.

some men say they are both righteous and holy and they are neither.
Some men are righteous but think they are not.
Some men God moves on to perfection. I don’t think it’s 24/7…but I don’t know because it’s above my head.

The rich, young ruler that you are referring to made the ludicrous claim that he had “ obeyed all of the laws since his youth” —- he was delusional and suffered from the sin of self- righteousness......Jesus was trying to take the air out of his self- Righteous balloon.....

Remember, the guy asked , “ what must *I* do to inherit Eternal Life? As if he could earn it by “ being” good” and being a Master of Commandment Keeping....Jesus knew that if anybody tried to make it to Heaven based on their personal performance level, they were lost .....The Standard, if you foolishly choose that route, is Perfection—- 24/7......

Jesus had to deliver this guy from The Fool’s Paradise where one thinks they are “ good to go “ because they are moral and keep the Law .....these are great things, but being “ moral” wont get it.....you gotta be perfect.....The rich guy was not able to abandon his riches which showed that he was a Sinner —— “ Thou shall have no other Gods before me”....... This man’s “ god” was his money....the man left dejected.....Jesus accomplished His goal......he showed the man that he was not the “ hot-shot” righteous man that he thought he was.....he was just another sinner that needed Grace and a Savior.....just like everybody else.....hopefully in the years to come, he heard and obeyed the gospel and put his Trust in Jesus—- NOT in his silly thinking that he had “ kept the Law” .....that is not the Way to Heaven.....it’s Faith ......Faith in Jesus Christ....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, that is what we are to do, and that takes maturity in Christ to do that. The reason why is because only those who are mature in Christ will look at their acts to see if they are in line with God's commandments, and repent to Christ if they discover they weren't. The immature won't check theirselves, and those on the false OSAS doctrines, those won't even repent and ask Jesus forgiveness because they're told they cannot sin anymore.

False OSAS Doctrine? If OSAS is false, God is a liar......God can’t lie.....I’d say the odds dictate that you are just poorly taught ......Jesus said that those that simply Believed in Him would “ NEVER come under Condemnation” ......what part of “ Never” do you fail to understand?

 

[Davy]

Using your logic, I can ignore the entire Bible, claiming it is just someone's defective translation. I don't do that. I consider the Bible holy.

That is such an ignorant accusation. It shows lack of understanding in God's Holy Writ. And I already warned about the occultists who wrongly think they can reach perfection in the flesh, and do their own salvation WITHOUT Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, they say Jesus 'achieved' perfection Himself, which is a lie. So if you want to follow them in thinking you can reach perfection in your flesh while here on earth, then I warn you, you will have gone off the deep end with the devil deceiving you.

 

[Davy]

Agreed.

Not sure what that has to do with my post.

I haven't been to church in 30 years. Everything I know/understand came straight from scripture - straight from the Lord.

From His mouth to my soul via my eyes. :)

In your post you said this:

GEN2REV said:
"Romans 7 is depicting unintentional sin. It is sin that we can confess, repent of and pray for God to remove permanently from our lives."

That is what my whole argument has been about, but some of you guys keep fighting against me on that. What you admitted in your above statement is...THAT WE STILL SIN. And that's what I've been talking about. But some here, with their absolutism about Christ's command for us to be perfect, which actually means mature, have gone the way of occultists thinking which believe they actually can achieve perfection of their flesh. Apostle Paul showed that's impossible per the Romans 7 Scripture.

So those who think they can achieve perfection of their flesh then show they DENY Apostle Paul's teaching in Romans 7 that sin is in... our flesh, and we will still slip up at times, and sin 'unintentionally', and that is why Apostle John in 1 John 1 showed us we need to repent to Jesus when that happens. And that brings up another serious matter about this...

Those who think... they are 'being perfect' with NO sin, are actually lying to theirself and make Jesus a liar according to Apostle John in 1 John 1. They still slip up, just that they won't admit it, and mainly I think because they are being lied to with the false 'once saved, always saved' idea of some that teach once believing on Jesus we no longer sin.

 

[Davy]

False OSAS Doctrine? If OSAS is false, God is a liar......God can’t lie.....I’d say the odds dictate that you are just poorly taught ......Jesus said that those that simply Believed in Him would “ NEVER come under Condemnation” ......what part of “ Never” do you fail to understand?

Oh no, I'm not poorly taught, because that would mean God's Holy Writ is poorly teaching.

What part of 'falling away' have you not understood?

You sound like you've been having a religious party inside your own mind, instead of heeding God's Holy Writ...

Luke 8:13
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
KJV

Guess who said the above verse?


Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV

2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
KJV

Acts 20:28-31
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
KJV

2 Peter 2:1-3
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
KJV

 

[Bob Estey]

That is such an ignorant accusation. It shows lack of understanding in God's Holy Writ. And I already warned about the occultists who wrongly think they can reach perfection in the flesh, and do their own salvation WITHOUT Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, they say Jesus 'achieved' perfection Himself, which is a lie. So if you want to follow them in thinking you can reach perfection in your flesh while here on earth, then I warn you, you will have gone off the deep end with the devil deceiving you.

Jesus said we have to be perfect like our Father in heaven. You can't change the meaning of the word "perfect" to suit your wishes. Perfect is perfect. We have to be perfect like our Father in heaven. Is that so difficult? We don't have a lot of commandments to obey.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Jesus said we have to be perfect like our Father in heaven. You can't change the meaning of the word "perfect" to suit your wishes. Perfect is perfect. We have to be perfect like our Father in heaven. Is that so difficult? We don't have a lot of commandments to obey.

I am not perfect and I don’t care. God “ imputes” His Perfection to my account because I Rest in His Gospel Of Grace. That is all I know. That’s all I “ need” to know.

 

[Cassandra]

Jesus said we have to be perfect like our Father in heaven. You can't change the meaning of the word "perfect" to suit your wishes. Perfect is perfect. We have to be perfect like our Father in heaven. Is that so difficult? We don't have a lot of commandments to obey.

Yes! Impossible without Jesus!
The law cannot be kept without Him! That is why the sacrificial system was not adequate in itself.
and if you are speaking of the 10 commandments, well, they cannot be kept either unless through Christ. I may not steal because it is against the law, but that is not keeping the spirit of the Law. If I don't steal from my fellow man because I love him, and that love comes from Christ, and the teaching of the Holy Spirit, that is different.

Christ is the center. it is Jesus , not us. We are nothing without him, works of tinkling brass.

 

[Bob Estey]

I am not perfect and I don’t care. God “ imputes” His Perfection to my account because I Rest in His Gospel Of Grace. That is all I know. That’s all I “ need” to know.

You don't care? Jesus told us we need to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. Why don't you care?

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes! Impossible without Jesus!
The law cannot be kept without Him! That is why the sacrificial system was not adequate in itself.
and if you are speaking of the 10 commandments, well, they cannot be kept either unless through Christ. I may not steal because it is against the law, but that is not keeping the spirit of the Law. If I don't steal from my fellow man because I love him, and that love comes from Christ, and the teaching of the Holy Spirit, that is different.

Christ is the center. it is Jesus , not us. We are nothing without him, works of tinkling brass.

You say impossible without Jesus, but we are not without Jesus.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh no, I'm not poorly taught, because that would mean God's Holy Writ is poorly teaching.

What part of 'falling away' have you not understood?

You sound like you've been having a religious party inside your own mind, instead of heeding God's Holy Writ...

Luke 8:13
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
KJV

Guess who said the above verse?


Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
KJV

2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
KJV

Acts 20:28-31
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
KJV

2 Peter 2:1-3
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
KJV

Too many errors deduced from verses taken out of context....I am not going to devote the time it would take to “ untwist” all the Scripture you have failed to understand.....I could......I’ve just done it too many times over the years....it would just be a waste of time....enjoy your crippled Walk of Faith...

 

[Nancy]

I’ll say it again —— let me talk to her husband.....after two minutes we’ll find out how “ perfect” she is.....lol.....

BB,
why do you assume that every woman has a husband?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

BB,
why do you assume that every woman has a husband?

I have mentioned this many times and she has never corrected me.....I believe I guessed correctly.....it does not matter.....if she is single just let me talk to anybody that knows her well...

 

[Davy]

Too many errors deduced from verses taken out of context....I am not going to devote the time it would take to “ untwist” all the Scripture you have failed to understand.....I could......I’ve just done it too many times over the years....it would just be a waste of time....enjoy your crippled Walk of Faith...

Your theory... that those Scriptures I provided are taken out of context is just an excuse to not recognize and address them, revealing that The Scripture has 'convicted' you.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your theory... that those Scriptures I provided are taken out of context is just an excuse to not recognize and address them, revealing that The Scripture has 'convicted' you.

I knew that you would throw this accusation at me......I don’t care....the truth is simply that I’ve refuted such error and confusion before and I am too lazy and uninterested in doing it for the umpteenth time....think what you want....pray that I don’t get ambitious enough to point out your erroneous thinking .....it would be a sad day for you....

 

[Davy]

....pray that I don’t get ambitious enough to point out your erroneous thinking .....it would be a sad day for you....

God's Holy Writ is what has convicted your false opinions. I showed the Scripture, you rejected it, so your argument against those Scriptures are with HIM, not me. And don't think for one minute that I'm scared of your vain threats, which only shows your cowardice.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

God's Holy Writ is what has convicted your false opinions. I showed the Scripture, you rejected it, so your argument against those Scriptures are with HIM, not me. And don't think for one minute that I'm scared of your vain threats, which only shows your cowardice.

I never reject Scripture——- what I reject is your confusion in regard to it.... I am not a coward.....I’m just tired of having to correct people like you that “ see , but do not see”......I am tired of wasting my time with those that are “ stiff Necked” and take Scriptures out Of context....

 

[Davy]

I never reject Scripture——-
...

Yes you DO... reject Bible Scripture, specifically the Scriptures I showed you in my post #127 revealing how a believer on Christ CAN 'fall away'. You reject those Scriptures because of those who have lied to you with their OSAS doctrines of men.