BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
That wasn't very hard, was it? Thanks for saving me the trouble.
Church Bashing
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Maybe holiness is just a very high degree of well-being. Sometimes I just can't resist a little sarcasm.
It’s hard, it really is. We have assumptions from what we’ve heard Christians say, which they were taught by someone else. We just think they’re true because everyone seems to believe them. And we read with those assumptions instead of seeing it doesn’t really say what we think…
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
what it comes down to as I see it is God is far better than we imagine ....translating into; it's far easier to be saved than lost.
Men love lost.....it's the default inherited from Adam so they (meaning those who consider themselves enlightened) make it sound like one needs to scale Everest barefoot, naked and backwards for an entrance into the eternal kingdom to be realised.
Juxtaposed is the good news that all are in Jesus by Gods action and there is no condemnation.....it's breathtaking.....will we believe it!
You have identified the conundrum...
Jesus OF God, said believe Him.
Men OF the World, say believe Them.
Jesus’ words are revealed IN Scripture.
Men’s words are repeatedly revealed OUTSIDE of Scripture.
Sure SOME MEN WILL REPEAT Jesus’ words, and any man can Verify a man claiming to SPEAK Jesus’ words, by searching the Scriptures.
SOME MEN WILL CLAIM they SPEAK Jesus’ TRUTH, but their SOURCE IS OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE, can not be verified IN Scripture and SHOULD be dismissed.
Best to simply read the truth for oneself from the SOURCE of Truth Himself, Which IS Jesus.
Glory to God,
Taken
Here's the thing. Nobody has to go by anyone else's assumptions. We all have Bibles and we all have the Holy Spirit to teach us. So it is up to you to seriously study the Bible (using all available and legitimate Bible study tools). As to "it doesn't really say what we think", the fault is not with the Word of God.
Let's take the example of the Millennium. Does the Bible have "a/the thousand years" repeated six times in seven verses in Revelation 20? Then why does anyone have the audacity to say that it really does not mean that or say that?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, you are putting more responsibility on people than required. Some people are not good students but can find good teachers and have faith in what those who have the capacity to seriously study say. A most important Bible tool.
Fact is, most people at the time of Jesus and now, learn about the Bible from what is said orally at church.
As I've explained to you many times before, the Bible is a highly figurative book. Just today in Revelations I read the army will have more soldiers than grains of sand on the beach. This is hyperbole.
It takes discernment to know when Scripture is hyperbolic and when it is literal. Hence, denomination and hence, this thread.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Again, I do not understand what you are asking. Why so cryptic? Feel free to consult your favorite lexicon regarding the meaning of 'bashing' from any euphemism bashers invoke, e.g., rebuking, discussing, protesting, etc.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This thread is not about a global church or babylon. It's like we are having 2 different conversations. If you want to talk about Babylon and a global church, you should start your own thread.
Haha...u 2 funnya google search delivers all those texts you can't find.....oh, you couldn't find them....then they're not there.....ask google
Hi Q.T.
And to keeping with the thread
, Yeah, I would love to bash any church that has faulty teaching as they are just leading the ignorant over a cliff. Which idioms are you speaking of. Eternal? Death? Torture? All of them are great deterrent's to sin, btw.
To our Western ways of thinking many think God already acts in cruel ways and they will point to the O.T. and of course, the bad things happening to decent people one. It actually had me thinking that too (against my wishes) but all the same, I was shocked to read about babies being slammed against rocks while mothers watched. I STILL have issues with that. Maybe in the Eastern world just sees cruelty differently...? And, the TULIP acronym in Reformed church's (IMO) also portrays a cruel God, they say He created some for Hell to show the glory in His wrath when sending them to "eternal torment". I don't serve a God like that and never would. I would burn in Hellfire forever first. IF, of course, there is a "forever hellfire".
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Yes, that is a good point and one I have thought of before. Are there any verses stating that men receive eternal life "through the Holy Spirits" breath? When God breathed into Adams nostrils, the breath of life and he then became a living soul, yeah, it seems that the first man could have lived forever, if not for the tree issue.
Eve was formed from Adams rib and, are we to assume that the Spirits breath of life was already in Adam's rib, therefore was passed on to Eve?? And, after eating of the forbidden fruit, the breath of life (or, Spirit of God) left them? So, from there on, God's Spirit did not live inside a man forever again, until they became born again through Jesus sacrifice...?
Anybody start a thread (a NEW thread, lol) on this? Hate to keep derailing Wranglers Thread.
Makes ya nuts, doesn't it. SOOOO many "opinions" so many things that "sound" right, even when comparing to the word. We really have to know the word well and trust that God will only reveal "truth" to us and that we will have the discernment to detect wrong teaching...no matter HOW humbly it is taught.
Still waiting for that deep discerning wisdom God promised!
It’s not wranglers thread, it’s marks thread.
Yes, it does read as if Adam could have lived forever IF he had eaten from the OTHER tree, but after the mistrust and disobedience God said, what if they eat from the other tree and live forever! So he blocked the way to that tree.
Yes, it really can drive you nuts. To be reading, and realize with some intrepidation, oh my gosh…it doesn’t really specifically SAY that, does it…it was a mans interpretation…and everyone just believed he must be right…!
I remember being overwhelmed with the thought that He TOLD us to beware the teaching/leaven of men and how was He now EVER going to remove it all from me?? I had just heard it over the years. It’s when I saw His utter wisdom at keeping me from all the churches I tried and tried to find and attend. I fled them all after the first or second time of going. As new as I was to Him, He still recalled to my mind the words I’d read and even in that very first church, when he preached about all the miracles not happening literally, I knew to flee, because if He didn’t feed as many men as it said, He certainly couldn’t raise a dead body!
I remember being overwhelmed with the thought that He TOLD us to beware the teaching/leaven of men and how was He now EVER going to remove it all from me?? I had just heard it over the years. It’s when I saw His utter wisdom at keeping me from all the churches I tried and tried to find and attend. I fled them all after the first or second time of going. As new as I was to Him, He still recalled to my mind the words I’d read and even in that very first church, when he preached about all the miracles not happening literally, I knew to flee, because if He didn’t feed as many men as it said, He certainly couldn’t raise a dead body!
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Yes, God blocked them from re entering and eating of the TOL, so they would not live forever in that fallen state.
Sorry @marks Don't know what made me think this was Wranglers thread...maybe because he wrote about everyone de-railing "the" thread.
Being raised Catholic, we were taught that we would "go to heaven and become an angel" (not gonna happen, we will "be like" the angels...full spirit?? hmm) IF..we were a "good person" and went to confession every Saturday and took communion as often as you could, even everyday! And also that God would get angry with us if we did wrong. So we had better make sure to go to the priest in the dark scary booth to confess our sins (cause, their "mediator" is a human man) and then penance on the rosary beads -10 Our Fathers, however many Hail Mary's, act of contrition. Then and only then would we be forgiven. All works based you ask me.
So, there was lots of muck to unlearn. You and I both have tried to find a church that we could be a part of and, for some reason, we have not been able to, and that NOT for lack of trying very hard! One thing I do miss is taking the Lords Supper or, "communion" with other bro's and sisters. It has been almost 2 years since I partook.
And yeah, there are TON'S of warnings on false teachers, prophets, doctrines etc. Jesus said IMMEDIATELY they would come in after He left the world. Don't see many threads on the "warnings" throughout the bible.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Oh, this thing train-wrecked about 30 pages ago.
In our defense, it’s ALL connected. The robe He wore that they gambled over was seamless. To try to give each man a piece of it would have ruined it. It had to remain in one piece, all of it.
And you see in these threads men tearing off pieces of it and the ruin it comes to, to do that.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
It's unclear if this post is meant to rebuke my post. However, having faith is NOT the same thing as a doctrinal purity test. If the verse you cited specifically listed doctrinal purity requirements, that would be different.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding we are to have faith in a person, not doctrinal purity.
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