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DuckieLady

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Ummmm.....Your denomination was created by men in the 16th century. So who stopped your forefathers from reading the bible BEFORE the 16th century?

None the less, you clearly believe your forefathers were smarter than everyone else otherwise you wouldn't have joined......Right?

Curious Mary

The lack of Bibles in their language- it was required by law to attend the Catholic Church. It was illegal for them to do anything else. Oh well, very political.

You asked me before who was smarter, my men or your men. I change my answer.

Romans 3:4

"Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.'

I will disagree with my leaders when the Bible proves them wrong, and I won't hesitate to speak the truth.

The members of your church should feel that same freedom and not fear against what they teach.


Catholics were killed and tortured by other Protestants and Protestants tortured and killed other Protestants......So it's a mute point!
That's because of the men being evil and wrong part.
 
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Taken

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Ok....You have been taught that a woman must have sex with the man she is married to and you have rejected the 2,000 year teaching of Christianity. Why do you reject 2,000 years of teaching and accept a 500 year teaching?

The Church believes that Mary, who was chosen by God to give birth to his Son, remained dedicated to God; the father of her child. You don't think that Mary had the willpower to resist sexual relations with a man after being chosen by God to give birth to His child. Even though we know that millions of women over the last 2,000 years have remained a virgin in their dedication to God....Mary just didn't have the will power to do that....Fascinating theory!

So women who marry and have a sexual relationship with her husband and multiply can not be dedicated to God?

LOL
 

Taken

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I accept the 2,000 year teaching of The Church. You reject it. Why do you reject it and accept the 500 year teaching of men?

Curious Mary

Rejecting a false teaching does not matter if it’s been taught for 2,000 years.

Why do you accept a teaching that is not verifiable IN Scripture?
 

amadeus

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...
None the less, you clearly believe your forefathers were smarter than everyone else otherwise you wouldn't have joined......Right?

Curious Mary
Should we be following the smartest people rather than God?

Who were the smartest people that have ever lived?

Should we find out and follow them?

Do we determine who they were in accord with an IQ test prepared and graded/analyzed by other men?

Are your own beliefs a result of following those you personally consider to be the smartest?
 
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theefaith

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Hey Desire,

Soooooo the bible self-authenticates itself? Is that what you are saying?

What if your 'truth' (interpretation) of a passage from Scripture is opposite of what an Apostolic Father has written about the same passage. Should I believe the Apostolic Father (a student of an Apostle) or should I believe YOU?


Curious Mary

yes

The authority of Christ in his church by the apostles! Acts 2:42
Without the teaching of Christ in his church you cannot know what is and what is not scripture or many things in scripture such as what Christ commands the apostles in matt 28:19-20
 

theefaith

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The Rule of Faith!

What is the rule of faith for Christians, or the source of truth?

What is the pillar and ground of truth?

How do we know truth?

Where does it say the “Bible alone”?
Or that we are permitted to read it for ourselves and make our own doctrine?

Where does it say all revealed truths are found in scripture?


Christ is the rule of faith or source of truth for Christians!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life! The church is an extension of Christ 1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth!

Must be taught by Christ! Gal 1:2

What God has revealed by scripture and the church, the teaching authority of the apostles has proposed for our belief!

Christians must be instructed or taught!

A Christian must have humility and obedience of faith to be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life!
Jn 14:6

Verses of scripture signifying that we must be taught.

Lk 1:4
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
The church is an exodus christ by which Christ perpetuates his mission, ministry, and teaching with His power and authority through all the world and all ages!

The private interpretation of the “Bible alone” does not and cannot and will not lead to a unity of faith! 2 Pet 1:20
eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Jn 1:16-17 fullness of Christ!


The Bible does not say all truths revealed by God are found in the “Bible alone”! Or that the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”!

Not the “Bible alone” acts 2:42
Not personal interpretation or experiences. 2 Pet 1:20

The authority of the apostles is required to know what is the scriptures and what is not, the church having wrote the New Testament by the authority of Christ the apostles determined what is scripture and the authentic interpretation there of!

Saint Jerome’s work of collecting the Bible and getting it approved did not happen until in 381 it was approved by the Pope, the valid successor of Peter having jurisdiction authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven!

How did the church for almost four centuries live without the “Bible alone”?
The teaching authority of the apostles that’s how! The Bible’s is the Bible by the authority of the church, Christ’s authority given to His apostles!

Christ founded the church on Peter and the apostles to defend, to protect, and to teach “thee faith”

A fundamentalist is ruled by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Without the teaching authority of the apostles you cannot know what is and what is not scripture!

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

What did Christ teach the apostles in the 40 days from His resurrection to His ascension?
What did he teach the two disciples on the road to Emmaus?
What was revealed to John the Baptist in Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John, and did it come by the Bible alone?
Where does Christ command the New Testament to be written? The apostles having the authority of Christ chose to write scripture! Other apostles wrote nothing at all!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Acts 8

Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive
What does a blind person do?

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture

Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42


Must be taught! Must be instructed by Christ!

Bible does not say to read and decide doctrine for you’re self!

Lk 1:1-4
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
 

theefaith

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Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but needed to be instructed by an apostle.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Taught by Christ thru His apostles!

Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Christ taught them and us thru the apostles.

Lk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Not scripture alone, but what the prophets spoke! And Christ explaining the scriptures, and we also are disciples, Christ also opens the scripture to us thru His church by the teaching authority of the apostles!

The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone” our of your Bible!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

The Bible alone is based on spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement, and personal interpretation, and not truth revealed by God in Christ without error, thru the teaching authority of the apostles!

God, Christ, the HS, the church, the apostles cannot be any authority at all, only scripture
1st problem is that the church of the apostles says what is and what is not scripture
The Bible comes from the teaching of the apostles

Pillar and foundation of truth!
The church will Christ’s authority in the apostles!
1 Tim 3:15

The church existed before the New Testament!
The church believed and taught before there was a New Testament!
The church exercised authority before there was a New Testament!
The authority of Christ thru His one true church wrote the New Testament!

Scripture alone is not enough

Lk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Acts 1:15 peter stood up and opened the scripture to them

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture God sent an apostle to teach him

not Bible alone and a personal interpretation!

Bible alone

example: of the word of God not in the Bible alone!

Lk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Or
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

these are divine revelation!
Inspired by the Holy Spirit!
And the word of God!

why do some only accept them after they are written down?

they are divine revelation and the inspired word of God when they were received, and when they were taught to the people, and when they were written down! Why only accept them in the written form or “Bible alone”???

Where does Christ or scripture say that all the divinely reveled truths are in scripture?
Where does Christ or scripture say what is and what is not scripture?
 

theefaith

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Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
 

Marymog

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Should we be following the smartest people rather than God?

Who were the smartest people that have ever lived?

Should we find out and follow them?

Do we determine who they were in accord with an IQ test prepared and graded/analyzed by other men?

Are your own beliefs a result of following those you personally consider to be the smartest?
Hey Amadeus,

I hope you had a great Christmas.

This is what it comes down to. You read the bible and follow what you believe to be true based on your interpretation of what you think God is saying, disregarding what others say. You think you are smarter than everyone else otherwise you would be following them and not yourself. (I don't say this in a mean way, just as an example)

The men of denomination XYZ read the bible and tell the members of XYZ what they believe to be true based on their interpretation of what they think God is saying, disregarding what others say is true. They think they are smarter than denomination ABC and everyone else.

All think they have been guided by the Spirit into this truth.

Fluffyduck follows who fluffyduck thinks has figured out the truth of Scripture. Fluffyduck believes they are clearly the smartest men to interpret Scripture.


I believe the men of The Church. You believe you. Fluffyduck believes the men of anabaptist. All those men were allegedly led by the Spirit into the truth but they all have different "truths".

So, in conclusion, your word game in the form of questions make no sense. It has nothing to do with "following God". It has to do with who WE think has properly interpreted God's word.

Mary
 
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amadeus

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Hey Amadeus,

I hope you had a great Christmas.
Thank you it was very good. Hope yours was good as well!
This is what it comes down to. You read the bible and follow what you believe to be true based on your interpretation of what you think God is saying, disregarding what others say. You think you are smarter than everyone else otherwise you would be following them and not yourself. (I don't say this in a mean way, just as an example)

The men of denomination XYZ read the bible and tell the members of XYZ what they believe to be true based on their interpretation of what they think God is saying, disregarding what others say is true. They think they are smarter than denomination ABC and everyone else.

All think they have been guided by the Spirit into this truth.

Fluffyduck follows who fluffyduck thinks has figured out the truth of Scripture. Fluffyduck believes they are clearly the smartest men to interpret Scripture.


I believe the men of The Church. You believe you. Fluffyduck believes the men of anabaptist. All those men were allegedly led by the Spirit into the truth but they all have different "truths".

So, in conclusion, your word game in the form of questions make no sense. It has nothing to do with "following God". It has to do with who WE think has properly interpreted God's word.

Mary
You made my point using your own slant. You would say I used mine. Here I consider what God inspired Solomon to write 3000 years ago:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

This is where all of us are... unless of course, God has spoken, or is speaking, to our hearts and we have been paying attention. Who has something more of that which is right? God knows!

Who is hearing from God and who is hearing from man? God knows!

I can tell you why I believe I am right as you can tell me why you believe that it is you that is right. God knows.

What do we know?

Have a very happy New Year!
 
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Marymog

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Thank you it was very good. Hope yours was good as well!

You made my point using your own slant. You would say I used mine. Here I consider what God inspired Solomon to write 3000 years ago:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

This is where all of us are... unless of course, God has spoken, or is speaking, to our hearts and we have been paying attention. Who has something more of that which is right? God knows!

Who is hearing from God and who is hearing from man? God knows!

I can tell you why I believe I am right as you can tell me why you believe that it is you that is right. God knows.

What do we know?

Have a very happy New Year!
We know that Scripture is the truth and God isn't hiding that truth from men. Your theory suggest that we really don't know the Truth. Can you explain why God doesn't want us to KNOW the Truth?

Mary
 

Marymog

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Rejecting a false teaching does not matter if it’s been taught for 2,000 years.

Why do you accept a teaching that is not verifiable IN Scripture?
Who decides what a false teaching is?
 

Marymog

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So women who marry and have a sexual relationship with her husband and multiply can not be dedicated to God?

LOL
Your LOL is a bit out of place kiddo. Scripture already answered your question Taken......It's in Matthew and 1 Corinthians!! If you want help finding it, let me know. I will help you.
 

Pearl

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Who decides what a false teaching is?
God does, if you ask him direct and not just keep on perpetuating untruths. he want us to know the truth and his Holy Spirit will reveal that to anybody who asks with an open mind and heart. But if your heart is already shut closed against him then he can't show you.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
 
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Marymog

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The lack of Bibles in their language- it was required by law to attend the Catholic Church. It was illegal for them to do anything else. Oh well, very political.....
Hey Duck,

Your Anabaptist forefathers were German. The earliest known Germanic version of the Bible was the fourth century Gothic translation of Wulfila (c. 311–80). This version, translated primarily from the Greek, established much of the Germanic Christian vocabulary that is still in use today. Later Charlemagne promoted Frankish Bible translations in the 9th century. There were Bible translations present in manuscript form at a considerable scale already in the thirteenth and the fourteenth century (e.g. the New Testament in the Augsburger Bible of 1350 and the Old Testament in the Wenceslas Bible of 1389).

Sooooooooooooo how was there a "lack of Bibles in their language" in the 16th century when your forefathers broke away from other men who broke away from The Church to start their own denomination??????????????

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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I will disagree with my leaders when the Bible proves them wrong, and I won't hesitate to speak the truth....
Hold on......HOLD ON DUCK!!!

YOU will disagree with your leaders when the Bible proves THEM wrong???????????? How will they be proven wrong??? Never mind, you already answered that: YOU will "speak the truth" when they are telling everyone else a lie!

What ever happened to complying with what Scripture says: Hebrews 13:17

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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God does, if you ask him direct and not just keep on perpetuating untruths. he want us to know the truth and his Holy Spirit will reveal that to anybody who asks with an open mind and heart. But if your heart is already shut closed against him then he can't show you.

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Thanks Pearl.

So you do know that John 16:13 is not meant for all 2 billion Christians? If it were then that means all Christians are guided to the truth by the Spirit. If your theory were true then why are there so many 'truths' in Christianity? Is the Holy Spirit confused by giving multiple truths?

Curious Mary
 

Pearl

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Hold on......HOLD ON DUCK!!!

YOU will disagree with your leaders when the Bible proves THEM wrong???????????? How will they be proven wrong??? Never mind, you already answered that: YOU will "speak the truth" when they are telling everyone else a lie!

What ever happened to complying with what Scripture says: Hebrews 13:17

Curious Mary
i too would dare to disagree with my leaders if I felt their teaching was wrong according to what the bible said. And, I would be encourage by those same leaders to do so. Now would you dare to disagree with your leaders? Are you encouraged to disagree if you they are wrong?
 

DuckieLady

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Hey Duck,

Your Anabaptist forefathers were German. The earliest known Germanic version of the Bible was the fourth century Gothic translation of Wulfila (c. 311–80). This version, translated primarily from the Greek, established much of the Germanic Christian vocabulary that is still in use today. Later Charlemagne promoted Frankish Bible translations in the 9th century. There were Bible translations present in manuscript form at a considerable scale already in the thirteenth and the fourteenth century (e.g. the New Testament in the Augsburger Bible of 1350 and the Old Testament in the Wenceslas Bible of 1389).

Sooooooooooooo how was there a "lack of Bibles in their language" in the 16th century when your forefathers broke away from other men who broke away from The Church to start their own denomination??????????????

Curious Mary
I don't think you understand, it was illegal to be in possession.

You probably don't have time for this right now since I'm kind of throwing it at you out of the blue. But if you get the chance might help

Hold on......HOLD ON DUCK!!!

YOU will disagree with your leaders when the Bible proves THEM wrong???????????? How will they be proven wrong??? Never mind, you already answered that: YOU will "speak the truth" when they are telling everyone else a lie!

What ever happened to complying with what Scripture says: Hebrews 13:17

Curious Mary
All men are wrong at some point, myself included, and that is why Timothy speaks of gentle correction.

There is no.perfect human, only one perfect God.

I think you are agonizing a little bit over the wrong things. It is not about traditions or history. It isn't about anyone's "men."

We know salvation came from the Jews anyway. It is in scripture.

"You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." John 4:22

The Bible shows us the truth, not men. We worship God, not men.

There is no reason to believe anyone besides Jesus and the apostles; those who actually walked with Jesus. Of course everything written in scripture...
 
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