Catholic issues

[theefaith]

But we ARE in His Church, which is The One True Church with Jesus as the head and the Church as the body of Christ. it is very arrogant to claim that catholics are the only church that matters.

there is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles having the jurisdictional authority of Jesus Christ with the keys of the kingdom
Matt 16:18-19 jn 10:16 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects lacking any authority or unity of faith, the tradition of men

 

[Marymog]

I don't think you understand, it was illegal to be in possession......

Hi Duck,

That is not true. It was not illegal to be in possession of a bible.

I wish you protestants would learn your own Christian history.

 

[Marymog]

All men are wrong at some point, myself included, and that is why Timothy speaks of gentle correction.
...

Oh goodness....A little lesson here on The Bible:

The letter to Timothy is a pastoral letter. Timothy was a student of Paul. Paul is telling (teaching) Timothy, who is a fellow elder/pastor, to be a patient teacher and gently correct opponents to the truth. It goes on to say that by Timothy being patient and gently correcting their mistaken beliefs, that God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth.

That passage and that letter to Timothy has NOTHING to do with you gently correcting me or me gently correcting you.

 

[Marymog]

i too would dare to disagree with my leaders if I felt their teaching was wrong according to what the bible said. And, I would be encourage by those same leaders to do so. Now would you dare to disagree with your leaders? Are you encouraged to disagree if you they are wrong?

If their teachings are wrong???????? Who are you to decide if their teachings are wrong? And if they are wrong.....WHY go to that church? Clearly they are false teachers if they are wrong!!!

No, I would not disagree with the teachings of The Church. There are two reasons given in Scripture why:

1. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (not me)
2. If I refuse to listen to The Church I will be treated as a pagan or tax collector (excommunicated)

I follow Scripture. Do you?

 

[Pearl]

there is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles having the jurisdictional authority of Jesus Christ with the keys of the kingdom
Matt 16:18-19 jn 10:16 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects lacking any authority or unity of faith, the tradition of men

Okay so will you please describe what consider to be The One True Church as you disagree so strongly with my definition of it.

 

[Pearl]

If their teachings are wrong???????? Who are you to decide if their teachings are wrong? And if they are wrong.....WHY go to that church? Clearly they are false teachers if they are wrong!!!

No, I would not disagree with the teachings of The Church. There are two reasons given in Scripture why:

1. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (not me)
2. If I refuse to listen to The Church I will be treated as a pagan or tax collector (excommunicated)

I follow Scripture. Do you?

My church does not teach untruths as your does Mary. And if we thought anything but the truth was being preached or taught then there are enough of us mature enough in our faith to point that out to a brother or sister.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, I would not disagree with the teachings of The Church.

So, the answer to her question is you wouldn't dare disagree with your church. You're not allowed to.
That, my dear, is a formula for disaster.

You can never know the truth because you accept the Catholic priesthood's authority to do whatever they want, change this, change that, etc... In the Catholic church, the scriptures are not the final authority, the priesthood is! Your religion is whatever the priesthood says it is, irregardless of what scripture says. I have read quotes of Catholic leaders saying they have more authority than Jesus. I read this when researching William Tyndale recently:

Tyndale, according to John Foxe, had an argument with a "learned but blasphemous clergyman", who allegedly asserted: "We had better be without God's laws than the Pope's.", to which Tyndale responded: "I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spares my life, ere many years, I will cause the boy that driveth the plow to know more of the Scriptures than thou dost!"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale#:~:text=Tyndale%2C%20according%20to,than%20thou%20dost!%22​

 

[theefaith]

Jesus paid the price once, he doesn't have to keep paying it every time we break bread together.

You are right that Christ suffered and died and paid the price

but Christ is both high priest Heb 8:1 (so there must be lower priests of the same order) and eternal priest. Heb 7:17
The office of a priest is to offer sacrifice, so Christ is eternal high priest and his sacrifice is also eternal, once for all
Once bloody on suffering and death on the cross but the self same sacrifice is offered eternally

holy communion is both a sacrifice and a sacrament

mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

a pure offering is a clean oblation aka an unbloody sacrifice

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

a lamb (Jesus) slain as the victim of the salvation of all men

 

[Pearl]

ut Christ is both high priest Heb 8:1 (so there must be lower priests of the same order

Yes, there are theefaith, - as scripture tells us we who are born into God's family through spiritual re-birth from our own free choice - we are all priests who belong to the royal priesthood with Jesus as our one and only high priest. But I dare say your church has a given the passage a different meaning.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

 

[Philip James]

we are all priests who belong to the royal priesthood with Jesus as our one and only high priest.

Hello Pearl,

Indeed, and for 2000 years, we have offered this sacrifice:

. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."

~The Didache~

Through, with and in our High Priest, Jesus Christ.

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Philip James]

FYD ~ that’s cool. @Philip James and I have what I believe is an amicable understanding between us, that we agree on the big picture and the differences of traditions and teaching methods don’t rival us in debate, so all is good.

Hello Taken,

Well im pretty sure that at least we dont condemn each other and that is, i think, more important than our differences in traditions and teaching methods...

'by the measure you measure..'

Pax et Bonum!

 

[theefaith]

Okay so will you please describe what consider to be The One True Church as you disagree so strongly with my definition of it.

only the Catholic Church (faithful valid bishops) the successors of the apostles
One, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic

 

[theefaith]

Yes, there are theefaith, - as scripture tells us we who are born into God's family through spiritual re-birth from our own free choice - we are all priests who belong to the royal priesthood with Jesus as our one and only high priest. But I dare say your church has a given the passage a different meaning.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

that’s true for those who have both faith and baptism Mk 16:16 but that is not the priesthood that Christ is high priest, but he is high priest ax to the order of Melchizedek not the royal priesthood

 

[Pearl]

Hello Pearl,

Indeed, and for 2000 years, we have offered this sacrifice:

. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."

~The Didache~

Through, with and in our High Priest, Jesus Christ.

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum!

We don't call it Eucharist but breaking bread as in my avatar. Bread and wine symbolising the body and blood of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

 

[Pearl]

only the Catholic Church (faithful valid bishops) the successors of the apostles
One, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic

Oh dear how arrogant Catholics are to believe they are the only ones God has chosen.

 

[Pearl]

that’s true for those who have both faith and baptism Mk 16:16 but that is not the priesthood that Christ is high priest, but he is high priest ax to the order of Melchizedek not the royal priesthood

A baby can't have faith at baptism. Why will you not dare to question your organisations teachings?

 

[amadeus]

Ummmm.....I don't know what all those quotes from Scripture have to do with God wanting man to KNOW the truth. Well, actually all those quotes you provided don't have anything to do with that.......

so that you may know the truth concerning the things about which you have been instructed.

“If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

My response was in response to your question:

We know that Scripture is the truth and God isn't hiding that truth from men. Your theory suggest that we really don't know the Truth. Can you explain why God doesn't want us to KNOW the Truth?
Mary

I believe that God certainly does want us to know the Truth. Not many people really want what God wants no matter what label [Protestant, Catholic or other] they carry as supposed believers. They usually, [from what I have seen], seem to be more interested in the blessings they are able to receive from God than in learning about the Truth.

Jesus expressed to the Father what he, that is the carnal man of him, wanted:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me:.. " Matt 26:39

Then he added words that many [most?] people it would seem fail to add in their words or thoughts when communicating with God:

"...nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt" Matt 26:39

 

[Philip James]

A baby can't have faith at baptism

Why not? Do you think God would refuse this gift to our children?

and said to him, "Do you hear what they are saying?" Jesus said to them, "Yes; and have you never read the text, 'Out of the mouths of infants and nurslings you have brought forth praise'?"

Pax et Bonum!

 

[Pearl]

Why not? Do you think God would refuse this gift to our children?

and said to him, "Do you hear what they are saying?" Jesus said to them, "Yes; and have you never read the text, 'Out of the mouths of infants and nurslings you have brought forth praise'?"

Pax et Bonum!

Pax et Bonum back to you. And how do you think a tiny baby can make the decision to be 'baptised' or to even know what faith is let alone possess it. Do you yourself have enough faith in God to dare ask him to show you the truth of what is being said to you. Or to research Christianity on a non-Catholic website? I don't suppose you do which is sad an means you are really stuck in the mire of untruths you believe.

 

[theefaith]

We don't call it Eucharist but breaking bread as in my avatar. Bread and wine symbolising the body and blood of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:26
For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

not symbolic but the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist which means thanksgiving! See Jn 6

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.