The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

[GerhardEbersoehn]

It did matter in the covenant that held you at bay at a distance from God. But now that we have been brought near to God, closer than the law allowed, through the new way of faith in Christ a single designated day for worship and attention to God is irrelevant. I mean, why do I need a law about when and how I can approach God when I'm already brought near to God, all the time, and much closer than the law allowed, through the new way of faith in God?

This to me looks like a genuine, honest, modest and humble statement of true, that is, SEARCHING, faith. God lead

There's no other way

Follow it through the New Testament this time. You will see God's HOME CHURCH -- ONE of -- all through the Gospels and Acts : AND Paul. Just open not your eyes only, but your heart mind and soul.
God go with you

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And yet the anti Sabbath folk seldom fail to use Hebrews 4 as proof against Sabbath keeping, using Joshua's 'rest' as evidence the literal Sabbath is now defunct.

Of course that's all defunct fake. There's NO mention of Joshua or <Joshua's 'rest'> in the Letter to the Hebrew Christians.

 

[Enoch111]

There's NO mention of Joshua or <Joshua's 'rest'> in the Letter to the Hebrew Christians.

There certainly is mention of Joshua in Hebrews if you understand why the word "Jesus " was used instead of Joshua.

RECEIVED TEXT
Hebrews 4:8 εἰ γὰρ αὐτοὺς Ἰησοῦς κατέπαυσεν οὐκ ἂν περὶ ἄλλης ἐλάλει μετὰ ταῦτα ἡμέρας
New American Standard Bible
For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

That Greek word which has been bolded is Iesous which is translated as "Jesus". But had it been written in Hebrew, it would have been יְהוֹשֻׁ֣עַ yə-hō-wō-šu-a‘ which is translated as Joshua, but can also apply to Jesus (Yeshua or Yehoshua).

Also the context makes it perfectly clear that Joshua could not possibly give the Israelites the spiritual rest which only Christ can give. It is Jesus -- not Joshua -- who said "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Mt 11:28).

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

non-observant Protestants

New movement, New ideology, New Hippies, New Ghandiism??

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The same thing can be said for the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week -- "the morrow after the sabbath" -- when Christ arose from the dead.

You're never gonna see any of that kind of junk coming from Moses' or John's writings.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The fact that UNBELIEVING JEWS cling to the seventh day Sabbath should be reason enough for Christians to maintain the first day of the week as the Lord's Day.

No. The fact that unbelieving Jews cling to their Christless LAW, for reason of THEIR 'sabbath' incidentally on the Seventh Day of the week, should be reason enough for Christians, "while JESUS GAVE them Rest", to "maintain the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD of the week" Hebrews 4:4,9, Matthew 28:1, as the Lord's Day in Revelation 1:10 which "God appointed - set apart - sanctified - HALLOWED" as the "MAN" Jesus whom "God appointed - set apart - sanctified - HALLOWED", "THUS" Acts 17:31 Hebrews 4 once again.

Where have you seen Sunday "so being spoken of by God" anywhere in all of Scripture? You're all bluff!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It did matter in the covenant that held you at bay at a distance from God. But now that we have been brought near to God, closer than the law allowed, through the new way of faith in Christ a single designated day for worship and attention to God is irrelevant. I mean, why do I need a law about when and how I can approach God when I'm already brought near to God, all the time, and much closer than the law allowed, through the new way of faith in God?

Do you really think that believers in the Old Testament were redeemed differently than we are?

No, but their covenant prevented them from having closeness to God. The law legislated limited contact, and distance between you and God. This is to show us that relating to God through law will not bring you into intimacy with God. Only relating to God through faith in Christ can do that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Maybe I misunderstood, but God says that the Sabbath is the sign between Himself and His people, that He is the Lorf that sanctifies them.

It is. Not the literal sabbath, but the true sabbath rest - rest from the slavery of sin. People who have been set free from sin show that they are in covenant with the God who sanctifies.

If that's problematic for you, consider that literal circumcision was also a sign that you were in covenant with God, but which we now know is spiritual circumcision, of the heart, by the Spirit, not the written code.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

New movement, New ideology, New Hippies, New Ghandiism??

No, a spiritual nation of God's people who observe the realities that the carnal illustrations led us to.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the Lord's Day -- the first day of the week -- "the morrow after the sabbath" -- when Christ arose from the dead.

BLUFF, FAKE!

"The morrow / day after the sabbath : OF FIRST SHEAF SHELVED / laid / prostrated / stored" Leviticus 23:11

Bringing in the sheaf.....BURIAL.....
“Fifteenth day of the First Month” “the Selfsame BONE Day” Ex12:8-18,41,42,51;13:3-14 Lv23:6-8, 21,22; 10c,11a,14 Nb33:3-8 Dt6:20-25 Acts2:25-35 Mk15:42,46 Mt27:59 Jn19:38,40,42 1Corinthians 15:4

11A And he shall lay* the sheaf before` the LORD
[וְהֵנִ֧יף*wəhênîp̄][אֶת־ ’eṯ-][הָעֹ֛מֶר hā‘ōmer][לִפְנֵ֥י lip̄nê][יְהוָ֖הYahweh]
11A And he shall lay the sheaf open[3]
11A Καὶ ἀνοίσει[3] τὸ δράγμα

before the LORD to be accepted[4] for you.
[לִֽרְצֹנְכֶ֑ם lir·ṣō·nə·ḵem.]
lay the sheaf down before the LORD in store for you.
καὶ ἀνοίσει τὸ δράγμα ἔναντι Κυρίου δεκτόν ὑμίν.
.....sheaf brought in ... BURIED .

Sheaf revealed and moved BEFORE THE LORD ....
“The sixteenth day of the First Month” “first” “day counted” to the “fiftieth day” Ex14:13-15:21 Lv23:6 2Chr29:17
11B The day-after the sabbath the first day (ye shall count)
[מִֽמָּחֳרַת֙ mim·mā·ḥo·raṯ][5] [הַשַּׁבָּ֔ת haš·šab·bāṯ]

shall wave it the priest
[יְנִיפֶ֖נּוּ* yə·nî·p̄en·nū][הַכֹּהֵֽן׃ hak·kō·hên.]
the priest shall reveal[7] it again.
11B Τῇ ἐπαύριον τῆς πρώτης[6] ἀνοίσει[7] αυτὸ ὁ ìερεύς.

12 And you shall offer on That Day[9] when you wave[8] it
[וַעֲשִׂיתֶ֕ם wa·‘ă·śî·ṯem][בְּי֥וֹם bə·yō·wm][הֲנִֽיפְכֶ֖ם hă·nî·p̄ə·ḵem][אֶת־ ’eṯ-]
12 Καὶ ποιήσετε ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ[9] ῇ ἄν φέρητε[8] τὸ δράγμα

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That's a clever trick, but I didn't say that reason and logic had no place in Biblical interpretation whatsoever (Isaiah 1:18). I said that the Bible wasn't a logic textbook. I was also trying to suggest that we shouldn't use logic to twist that which God has already made plain which, by-and-large, is the shaky-legged foundation that the entire anti-Sabbath movement stands on. The most strenuous mental gymnastics must always be employed to make a good showing of trying to upset the Law of God.

I just don't see where 'strenuous mental gymnastics' need to be employed to understand this:

"16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:16-17
​

I know this is probably opening up a can of wiggly worms, but so be it. Let's talk. I'm locked and loaded. Forgive my use of mixed metaphors, lol.

 

[Brakelite]

All rebellions, from Lucifer's in heaven, to the latest on earth, are premised on the same idea... Your government has made victims of us through your unjust, unfair, ineffective irrelevant and unreasonable laws. We can do better.
The only law in the ten commandments, the 4th, that anyone seriously objects to is the one and only law of all the ten that identifies the Lawgiver: His name, His position and authority to make laws, and the territory over which He reigns.
How can this objection to that law be anything other, either more or less, than rebellion against the kingdom and Lord of that kingdom Who established that law and pronounced Himself Lord of that particular day over any other, particularly when one considers that He had never changed, altered, or abrogated that commandment? And even more so, the objections to obeying the commandment have no more substance than a jellyfish, and are nothing more than human invented excuses founded on no greater authority than the imagination of those teaching them.
Jesus did not change His law, specifically declaring that heaven and earth will pass away before it changes.
No apostle changed it.
The early church didn't change it.
The resurrection didn't change it.
One offering on the first day didn't change it.
No man has the authority to change a law established by the Creator. No man. The best that man can do is humble himself and surrender his ego, his intellect, and his will to that of His Savior, to love Him more than his own life, and do what he's told.
"Oh, but Lord", says the man before the judgement, "I didn't have to."
Jesus. "Who told you that?"
One day, those who refuse to honor the Sabbath will have to answer that question.
Who told you that?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, a spiritual nation of God's people who observe the realities that the carnal illustrations led us to.

Man, shall I ever get you so far as to understand "the day The Seventh Day IS -- no <carnal illustration> but IS the Divine 'illustration' that led and still leads us to Christ? Please man ....
Sure, ultimately, in comparison with A. the Father who draws us to Christ, and B. the Holy Spirit who convicts us of Christ, and C. “the Son – if I be LIFTED UP – CRUCIFIED AND POURING OUT HIS SOUL for us – “the latter rain” – shall draw all to ME – Jesus Christ—, in comparison, all <illustration> in all its glory (says Paul), “IS LIKE NO GLORY” at all!


Here’s your mistake: You think because of this incomparability, the Law is <carnal>, useless, unnecessary, redundant, obsolete, contra-productive, in fact evil!

But yes, again, It can and it as clockwork happens that though the Law is true and good , MAN is totally and always evil. The weakness of the Law is not to be blamed on the Law or on God, but on evil and sinful man.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

None of this incidental stuff unseats the 7th day Sabbath as one of the ten, timeless commandments of God to mankind....

There's no question that the sabbath command is part of the Ten C's. That's not the contention here. The fulfillment of the 4th commandment is what is in dispute.

When we enter into rest from our work of sin we enter into God's ordained 'day' of rest. A 'day' established in Christ from the foundation of the world. And so there is no longer any need to keep a literal sabbath to enter into a rest that we are already in to God's complete and total satisfaction.

If this hard to grasp, consider that we no longer have any need to perform literal sacrifices to atone for sin that has already been atoned for to God's complete and total satisfaction. Ditto for circumcision. There is no longer any need to receive a circumcision to accomplish that which is already accomplished for us to God's complete and total satisfaction in Christ.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the word "Jesus " was used instead of Joshua.

The word - the NAME of names - "Jesus" - 'Iehsous', is NOT <used instead of Joshua>, it is used for Jesus Saviour of his People - how many, 8 times in the Letter.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus did not change His law, specifically declaring that heaven and earth will pass away before it changes.

But we all agree that much more than just a jot or tittle has 'disappeared' from the law. All the laws of animal sacrifice for sin and the laws that governed the Levitical priesthood that administered those sacrifices have 'disappeared' from the law. So we know one of the two conditions Jesus said must be satisfied before anything could disappear from the law has indeed been satisfied. Either the fulfillment has occurred or heaven and earth have passed away. Well, Obviously, the fulfillment has occurred. Christ's fulfillment of the appointed feasts and sabbaths has occurred, therefore, the law can, and has been, changed. So no argument can be made that the law has not changed and can not be changed. The literal sabbath can not be defended using that argument.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus did not change His law, specifically declaring that heaven and earth will pass away before it changes.
No apostle changed it.
The early church didn't change it.
The resurrection didn't change it.

The Sacrifice and Ministry of Jesus changed it.
His sacrifice made it so we do not have to have a priesthood of Levites, and the laws that governed that priesthood, to offer sacrifices for a sin we no longer have because it has been atoned for through Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice.

"12For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed as well." Hebrews 7:12​

 

[BarneyFife]

I just don't see where 'strenuous mental gymnastics' need to be employed to understand this:

"16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:16-17
​

I know this is probably opening up a can of wiggly worms, but so be it. Let's talk. I'm locked and loaded. Forgive my use of mixed metaphors, lol.

LOL - this reminds me of a line from the movie Twelve Angry Men:

"The boy in the gray flannel suit, here, is bouncing around like a Mexican Jumping Bean!"

(At least, I think that's how it goes. )

Just search the forum for Colssians 2 and you can probably find a thousand debunkings of this anti-(7th day)Sabbath proof text. I think I even started a thread on it once. I'm sure others have, too. Do we really have to go through this again?

Colossians 2:14-16 - The Law That Was Against Us

It is. Not the literal sabbath, but the true sabbath rest - rest from the slavery of sin. People who have been set free from sin show that they are in covenant with the God who sanctifies.

If that's problematic for you, consider that literal circumcision was also a sign that you were in covenant with God, but which we now know is spiritual circumcision, of the heart, by the Spirit, not the written code.

There's no figurative/spiritual Sabbath taught in the Bible. It is a figment of neo-evangelical imaginations.

 

[Enoch111]

The word - the NAME of names - "Jesus" - 'Iehsous', is NOT <used instead of Joshua>, it is used for Jesus Saviour of his People - how many, 8 times in the Letter.

You just don't get it.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

That Greek word which has been bolded is Iesous which is translated as "Jesus". But had it been written in Hebrew, it would have been יְהוֹשֻׁ֣עַ yə-hō-wō-šu-a‘ which is translated as Joshua, but can also apply to Jesus (Yeshua or Yehoshua).

So? Seven times Jesus but this once only, Joshua? Try another one!

"God thus spake .. of the Son .. God in these last days spake thus .. concerning the Seventh Day GOD from all his works did rest .. God the Word, two-edged Sword .. God shall not speak of another day --- but Enoch tells us God thus concerning Joshua the son of Nun the servant of Moses, spoke, and of another day?! WHERE in Hebrews, where anywhere!?

This is crazy.