Jerusalem: A Fig Tree That Will Bud Again

[Ronald D Milam]

Half way through the 70th Week is still *after the 69th Week!*

Lets go ahead and get this out of the way because imho, there is no excuse of anyone not being able to understand the 70th week has not only not come to pass, but CAN NOT come to pass until these six goals are met !! MY BLOG from 5 years or so ago.

Daniel’s 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression (Israel must turn from its rejection of God before the 70 weeks judgment can end)
2. Make and end of sins (Israel must stop sinning willfully against God before the judgment can end)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel has to repent as a Nation before the 70 week judgment can end)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (Israel repenting will/MUST, usher in Jesus' Everlasting Kingdom)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy (The 70th week must SEAL UP all Prophecy, meaning there is no more)
6. Anoint the most Holy (Its not Holy places as the KJV says its Most Holy, and that Most Holy is Jesus Christ, the 70th week can not end until Jesus is anointed the Lord of lords and King of kings. )

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, amongst others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, sins can only end when Israel stops sinning willfully, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no willful sins, only sins of omission, Satan the tempter is locked up for 1000 years in the bottomless pit. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the “time of Jacob’s trouble”, then “willful sins will end”.

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks judgment has been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had willful sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on the Mt. of Olives to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy can be fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished and/or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah's help, then she will call upon him, and he will protect and then save her from this wicked world.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Lets go ahead and get this out of the way because imho, there is no excuse of anyone it being able to understand the 70th week has not only not come tom pass, but CAN NOT come to pass until these six goals are met !! MY BLOG from 5 years or so ago.

As usual, you're over-confident regarding your views. This isn't anybody's "1st rodeo"--many of us have been arguing these various passages for years! I've posted my own views on the "6 things" also, and we might as well just shake hands and agree to disagree?

In my view, the 70 Weeks prophecy is all about Jesus' 1st coming and earthly ministry, followed by the destruction of the temple. The broader context has to do with the status of Israel's promised national restoration.

Daniel in effect says that Israel is going to be restored, ie the Persian Restoration. However, after it is built and a long period has taken place, the temple will be destroyed once again. Furthermore, the promised Messiah himself, though accomplishing his work, would be cut off.

The "6 things" you refer to are, I believe, the 6 things Messiah would accomplish at his 1st Coming. And I will give you my view on each point after you give yours.

1. Finish the transgression (Israel must turn from its rejection of God before the 70 weeks judgment can end)

The "transgression" was Israel's obstinacy and rebellion against God's Law. It is "finished" when their Sin was fully matured at the rejection of their Messiah.

2. Make and end of sins (Israel must stop sinning willfully against God before the judgment can end)

God finished Israel's sin by judging them, 1st by Christ's word, and then by the 70 AD judgment. As it said in the Law, God will give the land "rest" when the people are exiled from the land, removing their sins from it.

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel has to repent as a Nation before the 70 week judgment can end)

Christ died for Israel's sin so that if some repented, they would be forgiven. Ultimately, on behalf of the remnant that repents, the whole nation can be restored as a Christian nation.

4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (Israel repenting will/MUST, usher in Jesus' Everlasting Kingdom)

When Christ came in his earthly ministry, and died for Israel's sin, he revealed a form of righteousness that brings eternal life.

5. To seal up vision and prophecy (The 70th must will SEAL UP all Prophecy, meaning there is no more)

Jesus, in his earthly ministry, fulfilled the prophecy needed to restore Israel one day. And so, Jesus said "it is finished," meaning that everything in prophecy was fulfilled necessary to lead to Israel's national salvation. This may not exhaust all prophecy, but the prophecy is qualified by the context, which involves the prophecy that is essential for Israel's salvation.

6. Anoint the most Holy (Its not Holy places as the KJV says its Most Holy, and that Most Holy is Jesus Christ, the 70th week can not end until Jesus is anointed the Lord of lords and King of kings. )

Jesus became priest over a New Covenant when he rose from the dead. He became the "Most Holy Place" of the new spiritual temple, which is his body.

All 6 of these things were fulfilled in Jesus' 1st Coming, and 70 Weeks of years leads exactly from Artaxerxes' decree to finish the building of Jerusalem to the coming of Christ in 30 AD. From 457 BC to 30 AD you have 483 years approximately, leaving only a half Week of years to be fulfilled for Jesus' earthly ministry.

The Abomination of Desolation was to transpire after the 70 Weeks, and Jesus described it in his Olivet Discourse as an Army surrounding Jerusalem, set to destroy the temple. And this would lead to an age-long Jewish Diaspora, followed by the Return of Christ to restore the nation of Israel, along with many Christian nations.

As you can see, there are 2 ways to look at this. I've held to your position before. Have you ever held to mine?

 

[Keraz]

It is good to see proper serious discussion here.
As I see it, you are both wrong in your belief of who is the real Israel of God. You both hold to the idea of a general Jewish redemption; their final conversion and acceptance by God.

This belief is not supported by the Prophetic Word. Over 20 plainly stated prophesies tell us that the House of Judah; the Jewish people in the Land or still scattered, will be virtually destroyed.
Prophesies like Isaiah 6:11-15, Romans 9:27, Jeremiah 14:1-16, Matthew 8:12, +

So who are the Israelites of God today? Paul says it; in Galatians 6:14-16 and the entire New Testament preaches how God accepts people from every tribe, race nation and language, as His faithful people.
All those who reject Him and refuse Jesus as their Savior, who disobey the Commandments, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Judgment.
Their chance of redemption is NOW.

The mistake of believing in a Jewish redemption, colors all the end times beliefs, like the false theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, while the Jews get punished in the Tribulation.
Also who will occupy all of the holy Land after the soon to happen; reset of our civilization. A disaster of 'in the days of Noah', proportions. Isaiah 35:8-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26, +, ALL say they will be the Lords faithful people. We Christians have that Promise and the destiny to be God's Light to the nations, Matthew 5:43-46, Isaiah 49:3-8, Acts 13:47 and His Witnesses; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27, Acts 1:8

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is good to see proper serious discussion here.
As I see it, you are both wrong in your belief of who is the real Israel of God. You both hold to the idea of a general Jewish redemption; their final conversion and acceptance by God.

This belief is not supported by the Prophetic Word. Over 20 plainly stated prophesies tell us that the House of Judah; the Jewish people in the Land or still scattered, will be virtually destroyed.
Prophesies like Isaiah 6:11-15, Romans 9:27, Jeremiah 14:1-16, Matthew 8:12, +

Yes, brother, unfortunately we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Both Ron and I treat the Jews and Israel as a literal race and nation, whereas you choose to see these terms as spiritually fulfilled in the international Church. Since this has been a disagreement for virtually the entire history of the Church, it may take a miracle of God for us to all come to agreement?

Your position I understand pretty well now. You see Israel as the Church whereas the literal Jews will be destroyed, and their "Promised Land" passed on to international Christianity. There will be no Rapture to heaven, as the Dispensationalists and most other Christians hold. Instead, the Church will at some point be whisked away to the land of Israel in the Middle East to inherit that land as the "true Israel."

Before this happens you think there will be the 6th Seal event, a major Solar Flare that will bring judgment to the earth, an EMP event. I do agree that there will be major catastrophes in the world leading up to Armageddon, but I personally think the 6th Seal is just an insight into the events of the last day. I don't believe that the 7 seals are consecutive in time, but rather, a series of insights given to John to relay to the Church various issues surrounding Christ's Return.

 

[Keraz]

Your position I understand pretty well now. You see Israel as the Church whereas the literal Jews will be destroyed, and their "Promised Land" passed on to international Christianity. There will be no Rapture to heaven, as the Dispensationalists and most other Christians hold. Instead, the Church will at some point be whisked away to the land of Israel in the Middle East to inherit that land as the "true Israel."

All as I have shown; it is what the Prophetic Word says.
The Great Second Exodus of God's faithful people to the holy Land, as Isaiah 66:18b-21 and Psalms 107 describe.

Why you and most people cannot understand this scenario, is told to us in Isaiah 42:18-20 ... Who is so blind but My servant; the one in whom I have My trust?
But this 'blinding' can be overcome by those who renounce false teachings and earnestly seek the truth with prayer and an open mind.
Otherwise; the end times events will come unexpectedly and people will not know what to do. Many will denounce God for not doing what they expected Him to do.

 

[Keraz]

70th week has not only not come tom pass, but CAN NOT come to pass until these six goals are met

Actually those six tenets will come to pass AFTER the 70th 'week'; the final 7 years of this Church age. At the glorious Return of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

We are in agreement on some issues, but mostly I do not see the end times as you do.
I too; know the Lord has inspired me, so we have a serious problem - Who's right?

The answer is, the Prophetic Word is right and our difference is in how we read and understand it.
We must take great care to not let previous teachings color our interpretation of the Prophesies.
Otherwise; as the end times events unfold, those who had it wrong, will be unprepared; Spiritually and physically.
But Daniel 12:10b said that only a few wise people will understand. Be one of them!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Actually those six tenets will come to pass AFTER the 70th 'week'; the final 7 years of this Church age. At the glorious Return of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

We are in agreement on some issues, but mostly I do not see the end times as you do.
I too; know the Lord has inspired me, so we have a serious problem - Who's right?

The answer is, the Prophetic Word is right and our difference is in how we read and understand it.
We must take great care to not let previous teachings color our interpretation of the Prophesies.
Otherwise; as the end times events unfold, those who had it wrong, will be unprepared; Spiritually and physically.
But Daniel 12:10b said that only a few wise people will understand. Be one of them!

I have been on many boards with you and I think we have had the discussion that I think you are in error on almost everything that you espouse, and that's why we don't chat very much. And seeing as I will debate with almost anyone on anything, but I usually just look at your posts and pass them on by, that should lead you to the understanding of what I think the answer to the question..........

Between us, if I think you are always wrong, then I must win out on that contest. And, as I have told you before, its not you personally, I of course think you are a fine brother, but you are like the first guy ever that I disagree with on 97 percent of everything. So, as I have told you, on eschatology, we are just wasting time debating with each other.

And by the way, those 6 goals have to come to pass by the time the 70th week is over, some happen during the 70th week like Israel repenting just before the middle of the week (1260). The point is, Israel has been given a punishment by God and before that punishment can end Israel, has to repent, you know why we know that and why those who disagree are in error? Because the 70 years of punishment was EXTENDED all because Israel never repented the first time when they were sent into Exile in Babylon, many of them wanted to remain in Babylon!! Thus, as Daniel was reading the book of Jeremiah in Daniel 9 we see an angel (Gabriel) came unto Daniel and told him that Israel would indeed be allowed to go back into their homeland as God had promised after 70 years, but since Israel had yet to repent a a nation, their punishment would be TIMED by 7, thus the 70 x 7 = 490 years of punishment, of which Israel still lacks 7 years of this punishment, and those 7 final years will finally cause them to repent.

We all agree Israel has not repented yet, and since God refused to end Israel's punishment around 500 BC because Israel had yet to repent, what guy came up with the idea that the 490 years of Punishment was already paid off, with Jesus' death no less, it makes no sense tbh, if God refused to lift Israel's punishment when Daniel prayed unto Him, why would the 490 years of punishment have ended without repentance? They actually conflate Jesus' death/sacrifice with repentance, the two do not correlate, no one can gain Heaven via Jesus' blood until they REPENT !! Israel's penance can not be over until they repent as a nation.

Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

The Prophecy was not Daniels, it was Jeremiah's Prophecy, it was then timed by 7 unto Daniel in Dan. 9:24-27. Thus we know, that if Israel does not repent the judgment against her would not end.

We can try to engage again, if we can't bear the process we will just go the same path as before. No bigge.

God Bless.

 

[Oseas]

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

The MAIN point in my posts is EXCLUSIVELY the real description of the prophetic FACTS, yeah, the real facts, that is the description of the real happenings that describe LITERALLY the FULFILLMENT of the prophetic Word of GOD, no matters the translations or biblical versions. The letter KILLS, but the Spirit gives life.

What are the facts, and the real interpretation, that really confirm Daniel's prophetic fulfillment of the WEEK 70th-DANIEL 9:v.27, the last WEEK-and the manifestation of the satanic ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION?

Here goes the sequence of the prophetic events, and how they were LITERALLY fulfilled over time.

TO ALL BROTHERS IN CHRIST JESUS

I am not discussing about the prophetic last week Daniel 9:v.27, I am trying to make and HIGHLIGTH the difference between what is TRUE or what is Truth, and what is not. What matters is Truth, the Truth must prevails in this celestial or heavenly place in Christ where we yet are now, and Satan must be cast down from here to the earth, and after to the bottomless pit.

THE PROPHETIC FACTS AS THEY HAPPENED (NO MATTER BIBLICAL TRANSLATIONS)

587 - 559 B.C.-Judah is conquered by Babylon-Jerusalem and the First Temple are destroyed; most Jews are exiled to Babylon. (TRUE)

559 B.C.-Babylon is conquered by Cyrus - Cyrus's reigns lasted from 559-538 B.C. (TRUE)
The rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem is AUTHORIZED by Cyrus in his 1st year- 559 B.C - Ezra 5:v.13 and 6:v.3. (TRUE)

522 B.C. - Darius reigned from year 522-486 B.C. (TRUE)
DETAIL: The rebuilding of the Temple finished after 21years, IN THE YEAR 516 B.C, part was built in the time of Cyrus, and part in the time of Darius. (TRUE)

Captivity of Israel lasted 70 years ---> 587 B.C.- 70 = 517 B.C. (TRUE)

Temple reconstruction ended in around 516 B.C. - Ezra 6:v.15-15 And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the SIXTH YEAR of the reign of Darius the king. (TRUE)

Darius reigned from year 522-486 B.C. - (TRUE)
First year of Darius 522 B.C.---> his sixth year - 516 B.C. Temple reconstruction ended in around 516 B.C. (TRUE)

Again: Captivity of Israel = 70 years, so 587 B.C. - 70 = 517 B.C. (TRUE)

End of the rebuilding of the Temple was in around 516 B.C. according to Scripture quoted above.- Ezra 6:v.15 (TRUE)

7 weeks = 49 years-.---> 517 B.C. - 49 = 468 B.C. (TRUE)

62 weeks = 434 years..---> 468 B.C - 434 B.C = 34 B.C. (TRUE, IT'S A FACT) Until this point 483 years or 69 weeks - 62 plus 7 weeks - of prophecy have LITERALLY fulfilled itself, i.e. FROM YEAR 517 B.C. UNTIL YEAR 34 B.C.. THIS IS REAL.
NOTE: In this point JESUS was not born yet. In this point we are in the year 34 B.C., after 483 years from the END of CAPTIVITY that is from 517 B.C. to 34 B.C..THIS IS TRUER. So, it remains now to describe the fulfillment of the week 70th.

From years 34 B.C (517-483 years) until the birth of JESUS passed around 30 years-Year 4BC. A majority of scholars assume a date between 6 BC and 4 BC. (TRUE)

Jesus was born around 4 BC, so there was a gap of 30 years, from 34 B.C. until JESUS's birth-4BC. The week 70th, the last week of years-7 years-Daniel 9:v.27 stayed in suspense, I would say it stayed in stand by. See, if we were to LITERALLY consider the prophetic 490 years, the prophecy would have been plainly fulfilled in the year 27 BC, of course, that is before JESUS's birth, obviously. No sense.

JESUS was born -4BC- and conclude His Ministry around year 29AD and was cut off - crucified. Until this present time the events of the FIRST half of the week 70th it is still to be fulfilled according Revelation 11:v.2 ans Revelation 13:v.5, and in the middle of the week 70th will occur the manifestation of the Abomination of Desolation or in the beginning of SECOND HALF, and it until the consumation, until the END of this Devil's world, whose END is already running.


Daniel 9:.26-27-CJB- WHAT PREVAILS IS THE WORD OF GOD. The Word is GOD.

V.26 - Then, AFTER (yeah AFTER) after the sixty-two weeks, MASHIACH will be cut off and have nothing.The people of A PRINCE (YEAH A PRINCE) yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood, and desolations are decreed until the war is over. (This has nothing to do with the destruction of Israel in the year 70AD, AS FOLLOWS WITH SOME QUESTIONS:

V.27 He (he WHOM? the PRINCE; who is he?) he will make a STRONG COVENANT with LEADERS for ONE week [of years]. (THE WEEK 70th)
Do you see? This SATANIC PRINCE will RULE the last week, the week 70th, BY ENTIRE. And he will make a strong COVENANT with LEADERS for ONE week[of years]. (This prince was/is not a contemporary of JESUS, absolutely)

What kind of strong COVENANT the satanic PRINCE will make with leaders? Who are these leaders? By the way, the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27 will be divided in two periods of 3,5 years by the evil Prince.
In this POINT, that is, AFTER the END of the week 62, the prophecy is still to the beginning of the week 70th, and A PRINCE will start to work in his strong COVENANT with leaders; (What kind of Covenant? - Revelation 11:v.2 and Revelation 13:v.5

Therefore, in this point the FIRST half of the week 70th isn't started yet, it is I would say in stand by until this current time, and the STRONG COVENANT of the satanic PRINCE with the LEADERS will take place or will be applied for ONE WEEK, then the week 70th starts, I believe it will be in this current decade, there is a period of time AND EVENTS called as FIRST AND SECOND HALFS of the last week - the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27- that WILL be RULED by the EVIL PRINCE.

... he -the EVIL PRINCE- shall confirm the COVENANT WITH MANY FOR ONE WEEK: and IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK he-THE EVIL PRINCE-shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Scripture does not say JESUS was crucified IN 29 AD, many people are saying that, not Scripture. What Scripture says is that AFTER, yeah, AFTER the week 62 plus 7 the Messiah is"cut off" - crucified .

JESUS was not crucified neither in the week 69, because the week 69 ENDED IN 34 BC, so JESUS was not crucified in the week 69th but AFTER the END of week 69, but also was not crucified in the midst of the week 70th ruled by the Wicked Prince, who says JESUS was crucified in the middle of week 70th is lying, it's a devilish lie, this week 70th is/will be RULED by the EVIL PRINCE by the entire. The evil Prince was not a contemporary of JESUS, absolutely. THE evil Prince will manifest himself in this CURRENT decade, that is between 2020 to 2030, and the period of 7 years is within this current decade.

TO ALL BROTHERS IN CHRIST JESUS

The MAIN POINT of the prophecy of the week 70th Daniel 9:v.27 was/is the coming of the Messiah, our Lord JESUS Christ. JESUS suffered a lot to fulfill His Ministry, His suffering is indescribable, there are no words for. So I am finishing this post with a song of the great suffering of JESUS which certainly will make my brothers who love Him in heart to cry. GOD bless.

 

[Randy Kluth]

All as I have shown; it is what the Prophetic Word says.
The Great Second Exodus of God's faithful people to the holy Land, as Isaiah 66:18b-21 and Psalms 107 describe.

Why you and most people cannot understand this scenario, is told to us in Isaiah 42:18-20 ... Who is so blind but My servant; the one in whom I have My trust?
But this 'blinding' can be overcome by those who renounce false teachings and earnestly seek the truth with prayer and an open mind.
Otherwise; the end times events will come unexpectedly and people will not know what to do. Many will denounce God for not doing what they expected Him to do.

I see, said the blind man. ;)

You think others are blind when they don't agree with you, when they don't see things you want them to see it? So when the whole world sees otherwise, and only you see the pink elephant, they are blind and you are not?

Who made you the one to determine who is blind? In fact, I think we're just seeing things differently--it has nothing to do with blindness. If anything, you are hard-hearted, judging others in a nasty way simply because they won't condone your viewpoint. Very few agree with you, brother! You're on an island, and wish everybody to waste away there with you.

Why don't you get a little more tolerant and give others credit? They can hear from God too. If we get a little more cordial with one another, and kind, perhaps we will all see better?

 

[Randy Kluth]

7 weeks = 49 years-.---> 517 B.C. - 49 = 468 B.C. (TRUE)

Why are you starting the 7 Weeks at 517 BC? We are told it is the decree to rebuild Jerusalem that starts the clock--not the end of the temple building project!

This is where I would disagree with you, and why I think the clock starts at the decree in 457 BC. This leads us to the beginning of Christ's ministry, which is designed to fulfill the 6 things listed in the redemption history of Israel.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why are you starting the 7 Weeks at 517 BC? We are told it is the decree to rebuild Jerusalem that starts the clock--not the end of the temple building project!

This is where I would disagree with you, and why I think the clock starts at the decree in 457 BC. This leads us to the beginning of Christ's ministry, which is designed to fulfill the 6 things listed in the redemption history of Israel.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Davy]

I have been on many boards with you and I think we have had the discussion that I think you are in error on almost everything that you espouse, and that's why we don't chat very much. And seeing as I will debate with almost anyone on anything, but I usually just look at your posts and pass them on by, that should lead you to the understanding of what I think the answer to the question..........

Between us, if I think you are always wrong, then I must win out on that contest. And, as I have told you before, its not you personally, I of course think you are a fine brother, but you are like the first guy ever that I disagree with on 97 percent of everything. So, as I have told you, on eschatology, we are just wasting time debating with each other.

And by the way, those 6 goals have to come to pass by the time the 70th week is over, some happen during the 70th week like Israel repenting just before the middle of the week (1260). The point is, Israel has been given a punishment by God and before that punishment can end Israel, has to repent, you know why we know that and why those who disagree are in error? Because the 70 years of punishment was EXTENDED all because Israel never repented the first time when they were sent into Exile in Babylon, many of them wanted to remain in Babylon!! Thus, as Daniel was reading the book of Jeremiah in Daniel 9 we see an angel (Gabriel) came unto Daniel and told him that Israel would indeed be allowed to go back into their homeland as God had promised after 70 years, but since Israel had yet to repent a a nation, their punishment would be TIMED by 7, thus the 70 x 7 = 490 years of punishment, of which Israel still lacks 7 years of this punishment, and those 7 final years will finally cause them to repent.

We all agree Israel has not repented yet, and since God refused to end Israel's punishment around 500 BC because Israel had yet to repent, what guy came up with the idea that the 490 years of Punishment was already paid off, with Jesus' death no less, it makes no sense tbh, if God refused to lift Israel's punishment when Daniel prayed unto Him, why would the 490 years of punishment have ended without repentance? They actually conflate Jesus' death/sacrifice with repentance, the two do not correlate, no one can gain Heaven via Jesus' blood until they REPENT !! Israel's penance can not be over until they repent as a nation.

Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

The Prophecy was not Daniels, it was Jeremiah's Prophecy, it was then timed by 7 unto Daniel in Dan. 9:24-27. Thus we know, that if Israel does not repent the judgment against her would not end.

We can try to engage again, if we can't bear the process we will just go the same path as before. No bigge.

God Bless.

That some more of that wild SDA stuff, the false idea that God's 70 years prophecy to Jeremiah is what the Daniel 9 seventy weeks prophecy is about! CRAZY man, just CRAZY!

Jewish Gematria (i.e., the orthodox Jew's mysticism) is crazy stuff too, playing numerology with numbers and words!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

That some more of that wild SDA stuff, the false idea that God's 70 years prophecy to Jeremiah is what the Daniel 9 seventy weeks prophecy is about! CRAZY man, just CRAZY!

Jewish Gematria (i.e., the orthodox Jew's mysticism) is crazy stuff too, playing numerology with numbers and words!

Hold up, you didn't know that? And never say I am of the SDA, that's just ignorance on your part.

Wow, maybe you need to study it. Try googling was Daniel's 490 year prophecy an extension of Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy because of Israel's failure to repent ?

In Leviticus in God's statues we get this Law laid down unto Israel that their sins will be TIMED by 7.

Leviticus 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

18 And if ye will not yet for all this(the Above) hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins...........

23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

So, in Leviticus in God's statues/law, He clearly tells Israel if they willingly break His laws that He will place them into the hands of their enemies, and then if they refuse to repent he will TIMES their punishment by 7.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The 70 Year Captivity Prophecy by Jeremiah

Jeremiah 25:5 They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever: 6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.

In verses 8-9 God tells them through Jeremiah that because of their continued sins that they are going to be punished then in verses 10-12 God tells them what is about to happen unto them.

Jeremiah 25:10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the Lord, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 29:10 For thus saith the Lord, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

---------------------------------------------------------------

One can skip most of the prayers, verses 2 and 24 is what is most important, the prayer is Daniel praying that God would be merciful and remember His decree was 70 years and that 70th year was now at hand.

Daniel reads Jeremiah's Prophesies and then prays unto God to "remind Him" that He said Israel would be freed after 70 years of Captivity in Babylon. Then Gabriel shows up.

Daniel 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years(70), whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: 4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.........

9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

14 Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly. 16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

So, the punishment went from 70 Years in Babylon to 70 x 7 or Seventy Weeks are now determined [as the newly adjusted punishment] upon thy people to FINISH the Transgression !!

God's Law specifically says if Israel sins against God, and He punishes them, and they refuse to repent, that He would times that punishment by 7, thus the 70 years punishment shifted to 70 weeks are now are determined on Israel, then Gabriel goes through what that 70 weeks (490 years) of punishment details.

Let me do the math for you and the simple version

Jeremiah 25:10-11 says God will punish Israel with 70 years of Captivity in Babylon.

Leviticus 26:18 states in law that if you will not heed God's corrections He will TIMES your punishment by 7.

Daniel 9:24 then says God has determined that 70 weeks (490) years is now Israel's punishment.

70 x 7 = 490.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I don't know--I'd have to ask my brother about this, who is somewhat knowledgeable about the Greek. Frankly, however the word may be used, noun or verb, what is essential is to determine how the word is being used *in context.* There is nobody I know of who would describe this as a "departure" from the earth by the Holy Spirit or by the Church except Pretribbers. Yes, for the entire history of the Church, I don't think any scholar would've interpreted it this way, Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.

And the reason is simple. The basic theological point Paul wishes to make is that the Christians nearby are premature in their expectation of Christ's return for the Church. They actually believe that in some sense Christ and his Kingdom have already come, and the activity of the Kingdom is already on the earth, much as any Christian cult may claim the Kingdom of God is already active through them on the earth.

If then Paul argues that the revelation, and demise, of Antichrist must *precede* the coming of Christ for the Church, then it is hardly justified in the context to assume that there will be a Departure of the Church *before* the revelation and demise of Antichrist! This is just common sense. And for most of Christian history, there was no Pretrib theology or movement.

Real busy yesterday, and I have to rest my mind at times also.

Paul is not trying to tell the local churches not to expect the rapture at any time, just the opposite, you don't really think Paul told them to discount Jesus' imminency teachings do you? The facts show just the opposite, the Thessalonians were in fear that they were in the Day of the Lord (God's Wrath) thus Paul says I beseech you (ask urgently) BY the coming of our Lord, and the gathering unto him THAT you do not FEAR, that the Wrath of God (DOTL) is at hand (meaning God's Wrath is FALLING now). Don't let anyone fool you, for THAT DAY (God's Wrath) can not come until 1.) The Church Departs and 2.) The Man of Sin (A.C.) comes to power.

2. Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, {{So, we are URGENTLY ASKING you brothers, via the Coming of Jesus that you DO NOT FEAR or be shaken in mind, neither by Spirit (lying spirit/rumor), nor by word (a letter someone wrote claiming Paul said something he did not say) AS IF FROM US....That Gods Wrath was at hand.}}2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away(Departure of the Church) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

{{Let no man fool you brothers, THAT DAY (God's Wrath) can no come until the [Church Departs] Departing, AND the Man of Sin comes to power.}}

2 Thess. 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth(Church) that he(A.C.) might be revealed in his time.

This is why Paul's Epistles are not like the Prophets Thus Saith the Lord scriptures, we do not know what Paul previously told the Thessalonians (I do) thus Satan can TWIST IT into a departing from the Faith, when there is nowhere in that whole passage where Faith can be pointed unto as a subject in that chapter, but in verse 1 we can and do see the Gathering unto Christ Jesus in the passage.

Thus, you do not have to fear, the Wrath of God will not come before you guys DEPART is very comforting and the Thessalonians therefore should indeed not fear. But if the Rapture is imminent and the Church would have to go through the wrath of God why is it that they should not fear? Its a sequitur type of argument brother.

Paul is reassuring them they have nothing to fear with these very words, do not be troubled that the Day of the Lord is upon you, that can not happen until 1 and 2 happen.

Remember when I was with you I told you these things, AND NOW YOU KNOW...................What withholds him (Anti-Christ) from coming forth. (The Church with the Holy Spirit working through us stops him from coming forth). So, whatever withholds is leaving, its not the Holy Spirit, we see him throughout the book of Revelation.

To insert Holy Spirit into the talk about the Restrainer is foreign to the text. To insert the Rapture of the Church into the "departure" Paul speaks of is foreign to the text. Paul is not speaking of a departure from the earth at all, but rather, the Antichristian movement that must *precede* the coming of Christ for the Church.

This Antichristian movement will be a departure from the faith, and not a departure from the earth. A departure from the earth makes no sense, and there is no precedent for it in the most important eschatology in the OT, which is in Dan 7. That's where the Son of Man comes down from heaven to establish the Kingdom of God on earth. Since this happens, in the story, *after* the reign of Antichrist for 3.5 years, this is clearly Postrib theology.

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him.

I would say it is NOT FOREIGN to the text at all. But nowhere can you find FAITH, go read it, that is foreign unto the text.

The Holy Spirit working through the Church of course restrains him, look at the Beast Kingdoms, we turned Rome from a Beast to a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ by singing on those crosses while the burned us we overcame evil. Sure, evil followed in other ways, but the Beast systems fell, civilization eventually centered around Christ/God more than ever before on a world wide basis, not just in Israel. God's name became world renowned. Once the Church DEPARTS it will be like Moses' staff falling, and Israel losing the battle until Arron and Joshua could help him lift it back up. The Holy Spirit works through us, once we are gone this world will be back to it's Beast System ways.

The GATES OF HELL CAN NOT OVERCOME MY CHURCH........Jesus' quote. We must depart.

 

[Davy]

Hold up, you didn't know that? And never say I am of the SDA, that's just ignorance on your part.

Wow, maybe you need to study it. Try googling was Daniel's 490 year prophecy an extension of Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy because of Israel's failure to repent ?

In Leviticus in God's statues we get this Law laid down unto Israel that their sins will be TIMED by 7.
....

Yes, I'm familiar with that passage, but you cannot start doing Jewish Gematria with it, because the prophecies given Daniel are not overwritten by that Leviticus verse. You STILL have to heed the Daniel prophecies. What you are doing instead is a kind of prognostication just using numbers (with the 7x idea), just like how some use the 2300 days in Daniel 8 to mean years, when it simply means days.

This is where your error lay...

You said:
"So, the punishment went from 70 Years in Babylon to 70 x 7 or Seventy Weeks are now determined [as the newly adjusted punishment] upon thy people to FINISH the Transgression !!"

What you are doing by that is an attempt to replace the Daniel 9 seventy 'weeks' with the 70 years prophecy in the Book of Jeremiah.

The Daniel 9:2 verse is specifically about God's promise to end the Jew's captivity to Babylon after 70 literal years, and bring their return back to Jerusalem, per Jeremiah 29. It is NOT about the later 70 WEEKS prophecy given later in Daniel 9.

The fact that that 70 weeks prophecy upon Jerusalem and her people turns out to equal a period of 'seven sevens' (i.e., 490) only proves God does what He says (like Leviticus 26). But the 70 weeks prophecy is NOT to be confused with the 70 years prophecy given Jeremiah. The 70 weeks prophecy is covering periods a whole lot longer... than the 70 years prophecy given through Jeremiah.

And yes, your interpretation confusion of the 70 weeks prophecy is linked to SDA's theories.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

It is called "artistic license." If the author just wishes to convey the time as sabbath periods, then that's what he would do. And it makes sense. There is no need to designate a sabbath period as "years" or as "days," since a Sabbath period may be either of those. And it is much more logical that a city be built over a period of 49 years rather than 49 days! ;) For one, they didn't have nail guns back then! Today, a single house would like take perhaps 200 days!

Dan 9.25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem...there will be seven ‘sevens.' ... It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble."

 

[Truth7t7]

It is called "artistic license." If the author just wishes to convey the time as sabbath periods, then that's what he would do. And it makes sense. There is no need to designate a sabbath period as "years" or as "days," since a Sabbath period may be either of those. And it is much more logical that a city be built over a period of 49 years rather than 49 days! ;) For one, they didn't have nail guns back then! Today, a single house would like take perhaps 200 days!

Dan 9.25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem...there will be seven ‘sevens.' ... It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble."

"Artistic Liscense" Big Smiles!

If Daniel meant for (Seventy Weeks) to mean (Four Hundred Ninety Years) he would have written such, he didnt!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

And yes, your interpretation confusion of the 70 weeks prophecy is linked to SDA's theories.

Wrong, that is you thesis.

And secondly its not confusion, sounds like you were the one confused and didn't realize it was the exact same punishment, and thus now you seemingly don't want to admit that you were in error and I was correct, and that I used the scriptures and proved my point profoundly and now you are TRYING to play it off. In am not buying it brother, I was on the streets at 10 running a poll hall, its hard t get anything past me that I don't see coming from a mile away.

And yes, its the same punishment, extended. If a teacher put a kid in timeout for hitting another kid and tells him he can get out in 10 minutes when he apologizes after the 10 minutes is up, but he refuses to apologize and the teacher now mandates a 60 minutes (70 if 7 times lol) timeout. Was that a new punishment or an old punishment extended? Israel has to repent before the 70 year judgment is finished, not only did they not repent, but I can show you in the bible where many of them bellyached about having to go back to Jerusalem because they loved Babylon.

And NO, I understand the 70 Weeks was a Punishment, and then because of MORE SIN,(a refusal tom repentn is seen by God as sin) the punishment was increased, but since Israel never repented, God gave them an extended Judgment. It is God's OWN Laws, why question it? I think you though I was pulling a Houdini, and when I laid out the facts you are trying to save face, its OK, I only learned that Jeremiah had the original prophecy about 6 or 7 years ago. So, I missed it for 30 years myself.

The Judgment is God's Decree, nit Jeremiah nor Daniel's anyway, Gabriel gave Daniel the Decree. Its God's Law, not Moses' Law. So, its not really even a good point tbh. We all knw its God's punishment. I was only trying to show how people refusing to repent can bring forth more punishment's anyway, and the same goes with Israel. Israel MUST REPENT or else their punishment can not be ended, that is factual.

 

[Randy Kluth]

"Artistic Liscense" Big Smiles!

If Daniel meant for (Seventy Weeks) to mean (Four Hundred Ninety Years) he would have written such, he didnt!

As I said, a Sabbath Week can be either a Week of Years or a Week of Days under the Law. I don't know that anywhere else in the bible the 7 Year period for the release of slaves is referred to as a Week or not? Perhaps not.

Here it is in the context of a work week consisting of 7 years...

Gen 29. 27 Finish this daughter’s bridal week; then we will give you the younger one also, in return for another seven years of work.”

This has to do with a Week of Years under the Law...

Lev 25.8 “‘Count off seven sabbath years—seven times seven years

 

[Truth7t7]

As I said, a Sabbath Week can be either a Week of Years or a Week of Days under the Law. I don't know that anywhere else in the bible the 7 Year period for the release of slaves is referred to as a Week or not? Perhaps not.

Here it is in the context of a work week consisting of 7 years...

Gen 29. 27 Finish this daughter’s bridal week; then we will give you the younger one also, in return for another seven years of work.”

I still like the "Artistic Liscense"

Daniel wrote "Seventy Weeks" if he mean "Four Hundred Ninety Years" he would have written such, he didnt

Your not going to change what is written Randy, it's that simple