Jesus is Michael

[ReChoired]

Because Jesus is the son of God not an Angel.

The Holy Ghost said Jesus is an "angel" (office of messenger, not nature of a heavenly created being) - Malachi 3:1, and many many other places; Zechariah 3:1-2; Genesis 16, 17-19, 22; Exodus 3-4; Numbers 20, 22; Joshua 5; Judges 2, 5, 13; Galatians 4:14; Revelation 10 and so on.

This is admitted by nearly all writers claiming to be Christian from the time of the Apostles (NT) to present day.

 

[ReChoired]

Amen...not to mention the one and only one that should settle the matter, but my guess is they have an answer to that to...like maybe "messenger" or some such thing...

Hebrews 1:5
"5" For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

NEVER, far as my bible say's...

Look at verse 7. What "angels" are being referred to in verse 5? "maketh" (vs 7) (created ones, not uncreated ones, like the Son of the Father)

 

[Nancy]

Look at verse 7. What "angels" are being referred to in verse 5? "maketh" (vs 7) (created ones, not uncreated ones, like the Son of the Father)

Where in the bible does it distinguish between "created and un-created angels"? All angels were creations of God but, they are NOT human, Jesus was "born" of a virgin, But it is the Holy Spirit who came upon her with the seed of God, not a man. One of Jesus names even means "God With Us" Christ was born THROUGH the Holy Spirit...can you say that about any angel? Seems very clear that never at ANY TIME did God say "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? " to ANY "angel"?
.

 

[ReChoired]

Where in the bible does it distinguish between "created and un-created angels"? All angels were creations of God but, they are NOT human, Jesus was "born" of a virgin, But it is the Holy Spirit who came upon her with the seed of God, not a man. One of Jesus names even means "God With Us" Christ was born THROUGH the Holy Spirit...can you say that about any angel? Seems very clear that never at ANY TIME did God say "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? " to ANY "angel"?
.

You are misunderstanding the word "angel" as the Bible uses it. The word "angel" (Heb. Mal'ak; koine Gr. Aggelos) simply means "messenger". It has no additional definition.

Read Hebrews 1 again. Look at Hebrews 1:1-3. Is the Son a messenger on behalf of the Father? is the Son uncreated?

 

[Taken]

Where in the bible does it distinguish between "created and un-created angels"? All angels were creations of God but, they are NOT human, Jesus was "born" of a virgin, But it is the Holy Spirit who came upon her with the seed of God, not a man. One of Jesus names even means "God With Us" Christ was born THROUGH the Holy Spirit...can you say that about any angel? Seems very clear that never at ANY TIME did God say "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? " to ANY "angel"?
.

Agree.
Creations are Gods handiwork’s of establishing what was NOT to come into existence.
And regarding Jesus being born of a virgin. Born is something Alive coming forth from something Living.....Not to forget, The Living Word of God, came forth OUT from the Eternally Alive God in Heaven, Before He entered a virgin womb on Earth.

Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me...

John 16:
[28] I came forth from the Father and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keiw]

I use the KJB, which is not a "trinity" translation. I am not "trinitarian" (common Roman. def.). I believe Jesus is in Proverbs 8, and the one who worked on behalf of the Father's commands in creating "all things". However, you stated that in "Proverbs 8", that it says there, "he (Jesus) was created". Can you provide the specific verse (or verses) in Proverbs 8 which states that "wisdom" (Jesus) is created? Be specific please.

Again, Colossians 1:15, "firstborn" does not ever mean "created". Even in a natural sense, to be "born" means going from one place "womb" to outside of the "womb". Existence in the "womb" is already presupposed. Therefore, even to use the word "firstborn" in that sense, it means Jesus' existence already was before being "born" as a man. Yet the word "firstborn" means something else entirely there.

The term all creation proves your error.

 

[Keiw]

No, all it shows, is that in that one verse, that the Person/Being of the Father (JEHOVAH) is not the Person/Being of the Son (Adonai). It's like Daniel 7 where the Father is called "Ancient of Days", and the Son, called "Son of man". The Psalmist David, as well the Holy Ghost, which inspired the psalm, is simply identifying the two Persons/Beings in differentiation. The Son carries the name of His Father in Him, which is why in the OT, the Son is called "Jesus JEHOVAH" (in Hebrew), and in some places just "JEHOVAH" because He always comes on behalf of His Father's name, even as the Holy Ghost comes on behalf of the Son's name.

All who serve the true God come in the name of Jehovah. When David met Goliath, he said-- You come with sword javelin and shield, i come in the name of Jehovah. Jesus is clear-Its the Father who is Jehovah.

 

[Keiw]

I did not point you to school or men. I said I would pray for you as only God can help you see the truth in His words.

I believe Jesus-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--all his followers do. He is the way, truth and life.

 

[Keiw]

What 'translation' (I use that word very loosely here) is that supposed to be?

That is not anything close to what the Hebrew says. Neither the words "produced", "created" exist in all of Proverbs 8. The words "brought forth with labour pains" is simply a misunderstanding of the context of the words "brought forth", which means to be called forth to a task, not brought into existence. Even in a natural setting (of a pregnant woman), the child "brought forth with labour pains" already existed in the womb, but simply came from that place (womb) to another place (outside the womb). It doesn't mean to be created either.

Proverbs 8:22. יְֽהוָה קָנָנִי רֵאשִׁית דַּרְכּוֹ קֶדֶם מִפְעָלָיו מֵאָֽז׃

Proverbs 8:23. מֵעוֹלָם נִסַּכְתִּי מֵרֹאשׁ מִקַּדְמֵי־אָֽרֶץ׃

Proverbs 8:24 בְּאֵין־ תְּהֹמוֹת חוֹלָלְתִּי בְּאֵין מַעְיָנוֹת נִכְבַּדֵּי־מָֽיִם׃

Proverbs 8:22, [H7069] קָנָנִי. qänäniy does not ever mean created. It means to possess, or own. I wrote an entire study on the words here - Seventh-Day Adventists only; the meaning of Proverbs 8:22-31 KJB

Proverbs 8:23, [H5258] נִסַּכְתִּי. niŠakh'Tiy means to be appointed to a task, even anointed to that task, set up in office (as a builder under the instruction of the Father)

Proverbs 8:24, [H2342] חוֹלָלְתִּי. chôläl'Tiy means to be called forward, from one place to another (as when the Father says, "My Son", and the Son says, "Here AM I, my Father." coming to the Father's call.

I know what it means. He was created-0 doubt.

 

[Keiw]

Peter (Simon bar Jona) is not the "cornerstone" of Jesus' religion. Where ever did you get that idea? Peter said:

1Pe 2:7 - Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

1Pe 2:8 - And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Jesus is the "rock", even cornerstone of the "one true religion". Peter is quoting Isaiah 8:14, which in the whole context refers to "Immanuel" as the rock.

Yes Jesus is. I erred sorry.

 

[Keiw]

Rom. 11 states that He will lift the veil of blindness sometime during the Great Tribulation.

Jesus disagrees with you. Matthew 21:43

 

[JohnPaul]

Amen...not to mention the one and only one that should settle the matter, but my guess is they have an answer to that to...like maybe "messenger" or some such thing...

Hebrews 1:5
"5" For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

NEVER, far as my bible say's...

Amen Sister!

 

[JohnPaul]

The Holy Ghost said Jesus is an "angel" (office of messenger, not nature of a heavenly created being) - Malachi 3:1, and many many other places; Zechariah 3:1-2; Genesis 16, 17-19, 22; Exodus 3-4; Numbers 20, 22; Joshua 5; Judges 2, 5, 13; Galatians 4:14; Revelation 10 and so on.

This is admitted by nearly all writers claiming to be Christian from the time of the Apostles (NT) to present day.

That’s a lie I only ever heard that being said here, never have I heard any Christian say Jesus was the Archangel Michael.

 

[Curtis]

Who is Jesus?


Jesus is the only begotten Son, born of a virgin, who is also called Immanuel - meaning God with us (Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23) and who is the mighty God and everlasting Father. (Isaiah 9:6)


He is co-creator of the world, and of everything that was made in the beginning in Genesis 1.

(John 1:1,10,14 and Colossians 1:16-17)


To leave heaven and come to earth as a man, He voluntarily left the form of God that He had by His nature, and emptied Himself, setting aside all use of His divine power, and took the form of a humble servant. (Philippians 2:6-7)


Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Php 2:7 but EMPTIED himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.


After He left Gods form to take mans form, Yahweh became the Father of Jesus when He made a body for Him to be born in.

(Hebrews 10:5)


Mary is the woman chosen by God to birth the body Yahweh made for God the word.


Since He had set aside all use of His divine power to take the form of a man (Philippians 2:6-7) Jesus didn’t start His ministry of healing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons, until He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism. (Matthew 3:17)


He thereafter did His miracles by the Dunamis power of the Holy Spirit, that Father Yahweh anointed Him with. (Acts 10:38)


As a humble servant and man on earth, the Father was greater in STATUS than He, (John 14:28)— yet Jesus Is equal in NATURE to the Father, so He and the Father are one, (John 10:30) and He who has seen Him has seen the Father (John 14:9).


His purpose for coming to earth as a man, was to give His life a ransom for many.

(Mark 10:45)


He died physically on a cross, the sinless one for sinners, and took our place.


While His physical body was in a tomb on the surface of the earth, His spirit descended into the heart of the earth, where He preached to the spirits in prison. (1 Peter 3:19 and Ephesians 4:9-10)


These spirits were the Old Testament righteous dead, who were held in a holding chamber in hades, because no soul could ascend to heaven until Messiah came and atoned for their sins.


This chamber was called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, which is where the thief on the cross went. (Luke 16:22-26)


When He rose, he emptied out paradise, which is why many saints also arose and went into the city after His resurrection. (Matthew 27 53)


His resurrection was bodily, and He appeared for 40 days to His followers before He ascended visibly and bodily to heaven on a cloud from Mount Olive (Acts 1:9-12) - and this same Jesus will return to mount Olive at His second coming, exactly the same as He left, and will bring all the saints from heaven, with Him. (Zechariah 14:4-5)


Now paradise is in heaven, and souls of the redeemed go straight to heaven, and Jesus will bring those souls from heaven with Him at His second coming to receive their resurrected bodies. 1 Thessalonians 4:14

 

[Curtis]

Michael is so obviously not Jesus.

Scripture says Michael dared not rebuke Satan when they contended over the body of Moses.

 

[Curtis]

God always was and always will be. he does not have a God, nor is he in subjection to no one.

Jesus is 100% fully God in the flesh. Colossians 2:9.

He left Gods form that He had by nature, to take the form of a man and humble servant.
Philippians 2:6-7

As a man and humble servant on earth, Jehovah was His God.

 

[ReChoired]

That’s a lie I only ever heard that being said here, never have I heard any Christian say Jesus was the Archangel Michael.

Martin Luther said it, and put it into print. Melito of Sardis said that Jesus, "among the angels, archangel". Philip Melanchthon said it and put it into print. Jean Calvin said it and put it into print. Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Calvinists, Millerites, Adventists, Seventh-day Adventists, and hundreds of others, scholars, scientists, priests, laypersons, men and women, and including secular and religious dictionaries, concordances, lexicons, and even Bibles (Genevan, Berlenburger, etc) etc. Even all of "catholicism" (Roman, Eastern, Russian, Greek, Oriental, etc) admits in print that Jesus is the "angel of the LORD", and some even have said the following in print:

"Joshua 5:14: "... [Standard Print Page 227; Large Print Page 335] * [5:14] Commander: the leader of the heavenly army of the Lord of hosts is either the Lord or an angelic warrior; if the latter, he is a messenger who speaks in the person of the one who sent him. I have come: the solemn language of theophany; cf., e.g., Ps 50:3; 96:13. …" [Standard Print Page 227; Large Print Page 335] - Joshua, CHAPTER 5 | USCCB

*It is interesting that the Douay Rheims [Jesuit] Roman Catholic Bible, with Challoner's notation says that this “Commander” in Joshua 5:14 is named “Michael”, and in Daniel 10:21, states that the “guardian general” of the Church is “Michael”, and yet also recognizes that “the leader of the heavenly army of the Lord of hosts” can indeed be “the Lord”, why then cannot “the Lord” be symbolized by the designation “Michael”, which according to notation of Revelation 12:7 in the NAB means “Who can compare with God?”, for is not Jesus Christ, God, the Son, the Chief Leader of all Angels or Highest Messenger of the Father, yea the ArchAngel, yea the Apostle [Hebrews 3:1] of the Father Himself?:​

Joshua 5:14 [Douay Rheims [Jesuit] Roman Catholic Bible with Challoner notation]:

"... [14] Prince of the host of the Lord: St. Michael, who is called prince of the people of Israel, Dan. 10. 21. ..." - Douay-Rheims Bible, Genesis Chapter 1 b=drb&bk=6&ch=5&l=14#x

Daniel 10:21 [Douay Rheims [Jesuit] Roman Catholic Bible with Challoner notation]:

"... [21] Michael your prince: The guardian general of the church of God. …" - Douay-Rheims Bible, Genesis Chapter 1 b=drb&bk=32&ch=10&l=21#x"

I gave both resources to you, which took hundreds of hours of research in original materials and languages.

Michael The Archangel [X2] - Appendix 2 - The Short Historical List Of Those Who Taught Jesus Is Michael : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Michael The Archangel [11] - Messengers Of The LORD & The Reformation & Etc : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Documented in original language and original source where possible.

If you choose to remain blind to that evidence, you cannot be healed.

 

[ReChoired]

Michael is so obviously not Jesus.

Scripture says Michael dared not rebuke Satan when they contended over the body of Moses.

Why do you think that makes Michael not Jesus?

 

[ReChoired]

I know what it means. He was created-0 doubt.

If, as you claim, Jesus is created, neither you, nor I, or anyone, can be saved.

 

[JohnPaul]

Martin Luther said it, and put it into print. Melito of Sardis said that Jesus, "among the angels, archangel". Philip Melanchthon said it and put it into print. Jean Calvin said it and put it into print. Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Calvinists, Millerites, Adventists, Seventh-day Adventists, and hundreds of others, scholars, scientists, priests, laypersons, men and women, and including secular and religious dictionaries, concordances, lexicons, and even Bibles (Genevan, Berlenburger, etc) etc. Even all of "catholicism" (Roman, Eastern, Russian, Greek, Oriental, etc) admits in print that Jesus is the "angel of the LORD", and some even have said the following in print:

"Joshua 5:14: "... [Standard Print Page 227; Large Print Page 335] * [5:14] Commander: the leader of the heavenly army of the Lord of hosts is either the Lord or an angelic warrior; if the latter, he is a messenger who speaks in the person of the one who sent him. I have come: the solemn language of theophany; cf., e.g., Ps 50:3; 96:13. …" [Standard Print Page 227; Large Print Page 335] - Joshua, CHAPTER 5 | USCCB

*It is interesting that the Douay Rheims [Jesuit] Roman Catholic Bible, with Challoner's notation says that this “Commander” in Joshua 5:14 is named “Michael”, and in Daniel 10:21, states that the “guardian general” of the Church is “Michael”, and yet also recognizes that “the leader of the heavenly army of the Lord of hosts” can indeed be “the Lord”, why then cannot “the Lord” be symbolized by the designation “Michael”, which according to notation of Revelation 12:7 in the NAB means “Who can compare with God?”, for is not Jesus Christ, God, the Son, the Chief Leader of all Angels or Highest Messenger of the Father, yea the ArchAngel, yea the Apostle [Hebrews 3:1] of the Father Himself?:​

Joshua 5:14 [Douay Rheims [Jesuit] Roman Catholic Bible with Challoner notation]:

"... [14] Prince of the host of the Lord: St. Michael, who is called prince of the people of Israel, Dan. 10. 21. ..." - Douay-Rheims Bible, Genesis Chapter 1 b=drb&bk=6&ch=5&l=14#x

Daniel 10:21 [Douay Rheims [Jesuit] Roman Catholic Bible with Challoner notation]:

"... [21] Michael your prince: The guardian general of the church of God. …" - Douay-Rheims Bible, Genesis Chapter 1 b=drb&bk=32&ch=10&l=21#x"

I gave both resources to you, which took hundreds of hours of research in original materials and languages.

Michael The Archangel [X2] - Appendix 2 - The Short Historical List Of Those Who Taught Jesus Is Michael : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Michael The Archangel [11] - Messengers Of The LORD & The Reformation & Etc : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Documented in original language and original source where possible.

If you choose to remain blind to that evidence, you cannot be healed.

I don’t care who said it, I’m not buying it.
It’s you who is not saved for believing such nonsense, I’m saved for I believe in God almighty and his only begotten son Christ who died for us and washed away the sins of the world,