Christians are not under the New Covenant

[theefaith]

You know theefaith, I'm not Catholic due to disagreements with doctrine - but I do know the doctrine -
and I must say, you do a disservice to the CC.

It would be better if you just did not involve your church at all and just spoke generally about different topics that come up.
Stop trying to protect your church - you're not doing a good job of it.

Truth must be revealed by Christ to his church. Jude 1:3 the holy church teaches all nations. Matt 28:19 without error. Jn 16:13

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

 

[theefaith]

Not by the Roman Catholic Church - we are governed by the Word of God, not by any so-called pope.

who’s biblical here?

Where does the Bible say your governed by the Bible?

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[Moriah's Song]

2. Catechism of the Catholic Church, nos. 496-507; 510

2.2. Mary — “ever-virgin”
499 The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man.154 In fact, Christ’s birth “did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it.”155 And so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the “Ever-virgin”.156
500 Against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus.157 The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, “brothers of Jesus”, are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls “the other Mary”.158 They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression.159
501 Jesus is Mary’s only son, but her spiritual motherhood extends to all men whom indeed he came to save: “The Son whom she brought forth is he whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren, that is, the faithful in whose generation and formation she co-operates with a mother’s love.”160​

Notice in the above Catechism that there are no verses provided to support the claims!

************************************************​

I want to add to this that I am not against the Catholic people at all. It is strictly the Roman Catholic's false doctrines that I believe should be exposed as heretical. The Catholic church does hold to several good doctrines such as Amillennialism, and abortion.

There are heresies within the Protestant churches as well. Dispensationalism is the primary heresy today as it originated by Charles Nelson Darby in the 1800's.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Where does the Bible say your governed by the Bible?

2Ti 3:14-17..."But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

 

[Moriah's Song]

brothers brethren same difference

Close but not the same!

WESTCOTT & HORT AND THE GREEK TEXT
adelphous / BROTHERS
ADELPhOI/brethrened​

 

[GodsGrace]

Roman Catholic List of Heresies, Adopted and Perpetuated by the Roman Catholic Institution in the Course of Over 1600 Years​

These dates are in many cases approximate. Many of these heresies were present in the "Church" many years before their formal acceptance.

310 - Prayers for the dead and the sign of the cross began 300 years after Christ.
375 - Veneration of angels and dead saints, and the use of images, about.
394 - The mass, as a daily celebration, adopted.
431 - The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the term, "Mother of God", originated in the Council of Ephesus.
500 - Priests began to dress differently from the "laity" in.
526 - Extreme Unction. (last rites) In the case of immanent death, the Eucharist is offered as Viaticum, food for the journey to the Father. (a heresy)
593 - (date is appx.) The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Pope Gregory "the Great".
600 - The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I, 600 years after Christ. (Note: The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (1 Cor. 14:9)
600 - (date is appx.) Prayers began to be directed to Mary, angels and dead saints. The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone; minimally to Jesus. (Matt. 11:28; Luke. 1:46; Acts 10:25,26; 14:14-18)
610- The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas. (Note: This he did to spite Ciriacus, bishop of Constantinople, who had excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory I, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed the title "pope." The Papacy is of pagan origin. Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke. 22:24-26; Eph. 1:22,23; Col. 1:18; 1 Cor. 3:11). Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter was ever in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter was ever in Rome.
709 - Kissing of the pope's foot began with Pope Constantine. (Note: It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Acts 10:25,26; Rev. 19:10; 22:9)
750 - The temporal power of the popes began. (Note: When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He Himself refused worldly kingship. (Matt. 4:8,9; 20:25,26; John. 18:38)
788 - Worship of the cross, of images and relics was authorized. (Note: This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, to be plucked out, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time. IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Exod. 20:4; Deut. 27:15; Psalm 115)
850 - Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest was authorized.
890 - The worship of St. Joseph began.
927 - The College of Cardinals established.
965 - The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV.
995 - Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope
1870 - Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility. (This is a blasphemy and a sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by Paul. (2 Thess. 2:2-12; Rev. 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18)
1907 - Pope Pius X condemned, together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church.
1931 - Pius XI reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "Mother of God". This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in 431. (Note: This is a heresy, contrary to Mary's own words. (Lk. 1:46-49; Jn. 2:1-5)
1950 - The Assumption of the Virgin Mary (her bodily ascension into heaven) was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII.
1965 - Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI. (Note: The Roman Catholic institution claims that it never changes; and yet through the centuries it has invented new doctrines which are contrary to the Bible, and it has practiced rites and ceremonies taken bodily from paganism. Some scholar has found that 75% of the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Church are of pagan origin.

This list of human inventions utterly demolishes the claim that the Roman Catholic "Church" is the true Church of Christ!

Edited.


Wow.
Good work MS!

I've said many times that the CC was the original church and even the true church but only till 325.
In fact, that's the time you begin the heresies list.

 

[theefaith]

2Ti 3:14-17..."But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

they learned not on thier own but by being taught by the apostles

nowhere does it say read and discover truth and Christian doctrine in the Bible for yourself

the church teaches
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19

We must be taught Lk 1;4
Acts 8:31

 

[Moriah's Song]

nowhere does it say read and discover truth and Christian doctrine in the Bible for yourself

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and
for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17​

Mat 15:14...Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Luk 6:39...He also told them a parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?

Mat 23:26...You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

Luk 4:18..."The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

Jhn 9:39-41...Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

You again avoided the obvious....

Mat 13:55-56...Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not [Jesus'] mother called Mary? And are not [Jesus'] brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all [Jesus] sisters with us?...​

Since you persistently defend the RCC's heresies (and poorly at that) are you a priest may I ask?

 

[Moriah's Song]

there is only one new covenant
One church
One ark of salvation!

Here are a few excerpts from the book "The Glories of Mary" written by St. Alphonsus Liguori. All quotations are taken from the chapter entitled "Mary Our Mediatrix."

• Mary, the most faithful mediatrix of salvation.
• She has been made the ladder to paradise, the gate to heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings.
• No creature has since received any grace from God except through the hands of Mary.
• Are we then going to scruple to ask her to save us when (as St. Germanus says) no one is saved except through her?

Moreover, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 969, affirms that Mary is a mediatrix:

Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.​

In contrast, the Bible declares that there is one mediator:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all (1 Tim 2:5,6)​

Catholic apologists invent all sort of excuses to explain how Mary could be a mediator when the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the only mediator. Mary, they say, is a mediator because she prays for us, just as we pray for one another.

Apart from the fact that the Bible does not mention anything about Mary and the saints in heaven praying for us, our intercessions does not make us as mediators of salvation. Jesus is mediator because he gave himself on the cross as a ransom, paying the price for the liberty of his people. He reconciles man with God because He took away sin.

We may certainly pray for one another, but ultimately your salvation or damnation depends on your personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36).​

All the prayers of all the saints in heaven and earth, and all the curses of all the lost and all the demons in hell, cannot secure or threaten your salvation if you are resting by faith on Christ Jesus.

Contrary to the fanciful human imaginations, the Bible teaches that...

• Jesus is the mediator of the new coventant (Hebrews 12:24);
• He is the door to salvation (John 10:9); and
• all God's grace and kindness are given "through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:7);

No-one is saved through Mary; all are saved who call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13). Mary herself said that she needed a Savior.

[Mary said] “My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.” (Luke 1:46-47 )​

Needing a Savior is reserved for sinners. Mary did NOT say "...my spirit has rejoiced in God YOUR Savior" did she??? Let's see how honest you are with this one question.

Mary was truly the one and only blessed of all women because she gave birth to our Savior [Mary included] and she will always remain blessed for that reason only.

But since you don't seem to believe that Jesus is the only mediator, and that Mary is, what are you going to do now? Would you remain in the Catholic Church that places a host of "mediators" along with Christ, or join an Evangelical church where people really believe in Christ as the one and only mediator?

 

[theefaith]

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and
for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17​

Mat 15:14...Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Luk 6:39...He also told them a parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?

Mat 23:26...You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

Luk 4:18..."The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

Jhn 9:39-41...Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?"Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.​

youre not a man of God, only the apostles are
Scripture yes
Scripture alone never
Teaching authority of Christ in his church

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)

 

[theefaith]

You again avoided the obvious....

Mat 13:55-56...Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not [Jesus'] mother called Mary? And are not [Jesus'] brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all [Jesus] sisters with us?...​

Since you persistently defend the RCC's heresies (and poorly at that) are you a priest may I ask?

no just faithful Jude 1:3 contend for thee faith

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

 

[Moriah's Song]

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

Col 4:10...Aristarchus my fellow prisoner greets you, and Mark the cousin of Barnabas (concerning whom you have received instructions--if he comes to you, receive him),

g431 - Greek: cousin - ἀνεψιὸς ​

13:55 οὐχ οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ τοῦ τέκτονος υἱός οὐχ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ λέγεται Μαριὰμ καὶ οἱ ἀδελφοὶ αὐτοῦ Ἰάκωβος καὶ Ἰωσὴφ καὶ Σίμων καὶ Ἰούδας

Mat 13:55...Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not [Jesus'] brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
​

1. “brothers” (English) in Greek is - αδελφοί

You can write all you want to but you cannot avoid the contradictions of Matt 13:55. The Roman Catholic church is the epitomy of heretical doctrines that defy truth.

 

[farouk]

Edited.


Wow.
Good work MS!

I've said many times that the CC was the original church and even the true church but only till 325.
In fact, that's the time you begin the heresies list.

The true church, so to speak, began in Acts 2 at Pentecost and ever since then Acts 2.41-42 activities have been the real norm.

 

[GodsGrace]

The true church, so to speak, began in Acts 2 at Pentecost and ever since then Acts 2.41-42 activities have been the real norm.

Agreed.
And this is what the catholic, or universal, church taught till the early 4th century.
It was in keeping with what Jesus and the Apostles taught, including Paul, the honorary Apostle.

 

[theefaith]

The true church, so to speak, began in Acts 2 at Pentecost and ever since then Acts 2.41-42 activities have been the real norm.

the church is the kingdom of God the eternal city of God Lk 1:32-33 matt 16:18-19 the gates shall NOT PREVAIL

 

[theefaith]

[QUOTE="Moriah's Song, post: 1232323, member:

reply to you from Monday


Here are a few excerpts from the book "The Glories of Mary" written by St. Alphonsus Liguori. All quotations are taken from the chapter entitled "Mary Our Mediatrix."

One of my favorite books, written by a Saint and doctor of the church!

Mary, the most faithful mediatrix of salvation.
She has been made the ladder to paradise, the gate to heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings.
No creature has since received any grace from God except through the hands of Mary.
Are we then going to scruple to ask her to save us when (as St. Germanus says) no one is saved except through her?
Moreover, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 969, affirms that Mary is a mediatrix:

Lk 1:30

Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.

The mother has a the right to all her child’s possessions, Mary is the mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation Mary is his mother and mother of our salvation

Esther is a type of Mary who saved her people

All graces and salvation came thru Mary


In contrast, the Bible declares that there is one mediator:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all (1 Tim 2:5,6)

Catholic apologists invent all sort of excuses to explain how Mary could be a mediator when the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the only mediator. Mary, they say, is a mediator because she prays for us, just as we pray for one another.

Apart from the fact that the Bible does not mention anything about Mary and the saints in heaven praying for us, our intercessions does not make us as mediators of salvation. Jesus is mediator because he gave himself on the cross as a ransom, paying the price for the liberty of his people. He reconciles man with God because He took away sin.

We may certainly pray for one another, but ultimately your salvation or damnation depends on your personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36).

All the prayers of all the saints in heaven and earth, and all the curses of all the lost and all the demons in hell, cannot secure or threaten your salvation if you are resting by faith on Christ Jesus.

There is only one mediator of justice
One mediator of the covenant but anyone in the body of Christ or the communion of saints can pray and intercede for us! James 5:16 rev 5:8

Contrary to the fanciful human imaginations, the Bible teaches that...
Jesus is the mediator of the new coventant (Hebrews 12:24);
He is the door to salvation (John 10:9); and
all God's grace and kindness are given "through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:7);
No-one is saved through Mary; all are saved who call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13). Mary herself said that she needed a Savior.

[Mary said] “My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.” (Luke 1:46-47 )

Needing a Savior is reserved for sinners. Mary did NOT say "...my spirit has rejoiced in God YOUR Savior" did she??? Let's see how honest you are with this one question.

There are two ways to have salvation and need a savior
One is to be forgiven for sin the other is to be preserved from sin

Mary was conceived immaculate and preserved from all sin gen 3:15 Lk 1:28

Mary was truly the one and only blessed of all women because she gave birth to our Savior [Mary included] and she will always remain blessed for that reason only.

Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 found salvation Lk 1:30 consented to our salvation Lk 1:38

But since you don't seem to believe that Jesus is the only mediator, and that Mary is, what are you going to do now? Would you remain in the Catholic Church that places a host of "mediators" along with Christ, or join an Evangelical church where people really believe in Christ as the one and only mediator?

There is only one church Jn 10:16
Only Christ has authority to found the church Matt 16:18

The church is the kingdom of God and his kingdom, his ministers administer the kingdom

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Only Peter and his successors have the keys (jurisdictional authority) from Christ to govern the church and administer the kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Isa 22:21-22

 

[Moriah's Song]

[QUOTE="Moriah's Song, post: 1232323, member:

reply to you from Monday

Your posts are hard to understand because you don't separate what my thoughts were, what your thoughts were and what you are quoting from an outside article.

Most of the time, in order to figure out what you are saying in a post, I have to copy it and rearrange thoughts in order to be able to respond correctly.

 

[theefaith]

Ok mine are boxed { }

{reply to you from Monday}


Here are a few excerpts from the book "The Glories of Mary" written by St. Alphonsus Liguori. All quotations are taken from the chapter entitled "Mary Our Mediatrix."

{One of my favorite books, written by a Saint and doctor of the church!}

Mary, the most faithful mediatrix of salvation.
She has been made the ladder to paradise, the gate to heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings.
No creature has since received any grace from God except through the hands of Mary.
Are we then going to scruple to ask her to save us when (as St. Germanus says) no one is saved except through her?
Moreover, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 969, affirms that Mary is a mediatrix:

{Lk 1:30}

Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.

{The mother has a the right to all her child’s possessions, Mary is the mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation Mary is his mother and mother of our salvation }

{Esther is a type of Mary who saved her people }

{All graces and salvation came thru Mary}


In contrast, the Bible declares that there is one mediator:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all (1 Tim 2:5,6)

Catholic apologists invent all sort of excuses to explain how Mary could be a mediator when the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the only mediator. Mary, they say, is a mediator because she prays for us, just as we pray for one another.

Apart from the fact that the Bible does not mention anything about Mary and the saints in heaven praying for us, our intercessions does not make us as mediators of salvation. Jesus is mediator because he gave himself on the cross as a ransom, paying the price for the liberty of his people. He reconciles man with God because He took away sin.

We may certainly pray for one another, but ultimately your salvation or damnation depends on your personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36).

All the prayers of all the saints in heaven and earth, and all the curses of all the lost and all the demons in hell, cannot secure or threaten your salvation if you are resting by faith on Christ Jesus.

{There is only one mediator of justice
One mediator of the covenant but anyone in the body of Christ or the communion of saints can pray and intercede for us! James 5:16 rev 5:8}

Contrary to the fanciful human imaginations, the Bible teaches that...
Jesus is the mediator of the new coventant (Hebrews 12:24);
He is the door to salvation (John 10:9); and
all God's grace and kindness are given "through Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:7);
No-one is saved through Mary; all are saved who call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13). Mary herself said that she needed a Savior.

[Mary said] “My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.” (Luke 1:46-47 )

Needing a Savior is reserved for sinners. Mary did NOT say "...my spirit has rejoiced in God YOUR Savior" did she??? Let's see how honest you are with this one question.

{There are two ways to have salvation and need a savior
One is to be forgiven for sin the other is to be preserved from sin}

{Mary was conceived immaculate and preserved from all sin gen 3:15 Lk 1:28}

Mary was truly the one and only blessed of all women because she gave birth to our Savior [Mary included] and she will always remain blessed for that reason only.

{Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30 found salvation Lk 1:30 consented to our salvation Lk 1:38}

But since you don't seem to believe that Jesus is the only mediator, and that Mary is, what are you going to do now? Would you remain in the Catholic Church that places a host of "mediators" along with Christ, or join an Evangelical church where people really believe in Christ as the one and only mediator?

{There is only one church Jn 10:16
Only Christ has authority to found the church Matt 16:18}

{The church is the kingdom of God and his kingdom, his ministers administer the kingdom}

{What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Only Peter and his successors have the keys (jurisdictional authority) from Christ to govern the church and administer the kingdom! Matt 16:18-19 Isa 22:21-22}

 

[keithr]

{Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Luke 2:30 - what has Simeon (to whom the Holy Spirit revealed that before he died he would see God's Messiah) saying to God while holding the baby Jesus, "for my eyes have seen your salvation", got to do with Mary? No reverence is given to the mothers of any of the Old Testament prophets and kings, so why should there be any difference for the mother of Jesus? Mary was favoured and blessed by God, and chosen to be Jesus' mother, but that doesn't mean we should revere her any more than we should revere Saul/Paul who was favoured and blessed by Jesus to become the most important Apostle and teacher of the Gospel. Besides, the verse says, "your salvation" (God's provision of salvation) not "our salvation" (okay, He is saving us!).

found salvation Lk 1:30

Actually Luke 1:30 says that Mary had found favour with God, not salvation.

consented to our salvation Lk 1:38

No, Mary consented to God's word to her to be done, i.e. she consented, as a servant of God, to God doing to her what He had said He would do (so God cannot be accused of rape!):

(38) Mary said, “Behold, the servant of the Lord; let it be done to me according to your word.”​

She did not consent to "our salvation"! Salvation was not mentioned by the Angel Gabriel to Mary.