The Desecration of the Second Temple.

[Earburner]

That's a cop out.
It's your job to sort the apples and oranges in God's garden. And to dig up the stones and remove the thorns and bramble bushes.
If your not up to it, then you should find another garden to tend.
Good day

Your previous response to me can be read as a demand in sarcasm. However, if you listen to most of what I say, I am always sorting apples from oranges. Iows, I don't try to believe that an orange is an apple, just because it's approved of by the scholarly wisdom of men.
1Cor.2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[Earburner]

I don't know if your being sarcastic or not.

You do know that they are trying to do exactly that same thing today, they did 2000 years ago?
Only this time they are coming for the Spirit of God, to kill it in us.
Fear not them that can kill the body... They killed the physical body.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I believe this includes Gentiles as well as Jews.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I believe the next abomination we see will be the destruction or the attempt to destruct the Spirit of Christ.
We are in a Spiritual War.

I think we're saying the same thing...
but I'm not entirely sure.

I don't believe the "Antichrist" is a single person, but rather a host of people that make up the Antichrist.
It is in complete opposition which is the body of Christ, which are many members in particular.
If we are looking for A man, I believe we will miss the whole picture.

The devil, the beast, and the false prophet are in complete contrast to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

And just as God is in us and we are in Him and and we make up the body.
So Antichrist is in them and they in him (ye are of your father the devil) and they make up that body.

When Jesus says to John write the things that have been, the things that are, and the things that shall be,
then the things that shall be are about to be in our near future.
The things that are, is that which occured while the Apostles were witnessing it first hand.
The things that have been, is when God flooded the earth in the days of Noah.

It's the same theme.
That's how I hear it.

Hugs

No, I am not being sarcastic. I do hear what you are saying, and much of it I agree with. But as to what church-ianity is pushing. That I can't and won't follow.

 

[Ziggy]

I don't try to believe that an orange is an apple, just because it's approved of by the scholarly wisdom of men.

I don't know any either.
It's just me and the word of God.
And seems to me, we're both students sitting in the classroom trying to solve a few riddles.
It's when one believes they are the teacher and not the student, then it is the teachers job to correct the students paper and to show them the correct answer.
I'm no teacher. I'm still learning.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

But as to what church-ianity is pushing

I don't know what they're pushing, because I don't go to church in the physical sense.
My church is here in this forum.
And your my brother/sister..
And hopefully we can sit at this table together and break bread, because I enjoy reading your posts.
They give me food for thought.
HUGS

 

[Ziggy]

What weapons do you know of, that can destroy millions of people IN ONE DAY?

How long is one day... figuratively speaking?
I can see millions being destroyed "spiritually" within one generation. Spiritual weapons of mass destruction.
watch:

 

[Timtofly]

God began with six things that He hated, but suddenly interjected to say that seven are abominations. Which one did he interject with, that caused Him to conclude that all 6, I mean now 7, were abominations? I undoubtedly perceive that the shedding of His Son's innocent blood, was the 7th abomination.

So there were "brethren" back in the OT, or was that an NT phenomenon? David shed innocent blood to cover up his adultery.

 

[Timtofly]

Can you disprove what I have shown? If so, can you tell me how those "six works of God" must wait to be fulfilled in a millennium on earth, when you already are a recipient and a partaker of Christ's "Finished work"?
John.17
[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John.19
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Because in 500BC, Daniel's people were the nation of Israel, most had been scattered to the ends of the earth in 700BC. So claiming it only applied to first century Jews is missing the point. No doubt the events of 30AD were the most significant for all of Adam's descendants, not even just Daniel's people, Israel itself.

Daniel was not seeking God in prayer about all of Adam's flesh and blood, which would include those in the Babylonian government currently the Medes and Persians. Not only was Christ cut off in 30AD, but 40 year later, Israel itself was cut off and left desolate. You are not very convincing in your fulfilment when absolutely every thing about Daniel's people literally ended in the first century. That is not even the worse part mentioned in Daniel 9:27.

Yes, the physical work was done as Messiah on the Cross. That part is finished. No more Atonement is necessary. However the rest did not simply turn into a spiritual promise of thousands of years, but Israel was put on hold until the fulness of the Gentiles, the rest of Adam's family was also included into the promise. Daniel 9:27 is not the 70th week split in half. Jesus as Christ was the 70th week split in half with the Prince part being the Second Half. Certainly Jesus did not become a physical king in Jerusalem in the first century to complete the 70th week.

Claiming He is a spiritual king since then was not even the point of the rest of the NT. The rest of the NT was spreading the Gospel so the fulness of the Gentile world would come in. Then at some point God would restore Israel and finish the second half of the 70th week. The church and Gentiles are not the restored physical kingdom for Israel, no matter how much you can twist Scripture. The church and fulness of the Gentiles is the heavenly kingdom without observation. Jesus never promised a soon coming earthly kingdom. Jesus promised an everlasting spiritual kingdom on earth for those who accepted the Atonement which transferred that individual to Paradise upon physical death and the removal of Adam's dead flesh and blood to a permanent incorruptible physical body from God.

Yes God gave the whole world more than just the 6 things He sent Gabriel to tell Daniel. But those particular 6 things were for physical earth and physical restoration for Israel physically on the physical earth. That is the point you are trying to conflate, when you mix God's plan for Israel into God's plan for the whole world.

 

[Earburner]

So there were "brethren" back in the OT, or was that an NT phenomenon? David shed innocent blood to cover up his adultery.

And David had God's forgiveness because of his repentance towards God. So shall every Jew the same, if they come to Jesus. There is no other way!!

The OT Israel of faith, looked towards the day when their Promise of a Messiah was to come, of whom was Jesus. Now that He has come, and has been the Light of God to all the world, for each generation, both Jew and Gentile, have now the only opportunity
for forgiveness of sins and to receive the Gift of eternal life. Should any neglect to receive Him now, there ARE NO second chances.

Now, since we all do know that before Jesus returns from Heaven, the "MoB" will be manifested to ALL the world, to ALL people. It will be that event whereby in and of itself, God will TRY THEM, by sending strong delusion to believe a lie.
Make no mistake, It will be the global event of God separating the goats (who have taken the MoB) from the sheep (who didn't take the MoB).

All who take the MoB, shall be destroyed, and all who didn't take the MoB, shall be saved.
Do you know how many shall be destroyed?
ALL OF THEM!
Do you know how many will be redeemed?
ALL OF THEM!

WHEN? "In that Day." 2 Thessalonians 1:10, Luke 17:29

It will be a simultaneous event, whereby DEATH WILL BE NO MORE, for the redeemed, as well as for the unsaved. We shall escape. They shall not!!

And so I ask: if the 1000 years is NOT now the Age of God's Grace, how can it be on the earth AFTER Christ returns in flaming fire (an all consuming fire)?

I have concluded that it can't. It's the new heavens and the new earth made by God. That is WHAT we should be looking for. Not an old earth, remodeled and made over by people WHO WON'T BE HERE.

Don't you know that "the lie" is already in the world?
We hear of it by the "World Economic Forum" and the "UN Agenda 2030", aka "Save the Planet" or "Go Green".

 

[Timtofly]

And David had God's forgiveness because of his repentance towards God. So shall every Jew the same, if they come to Jesus. There is no other way!!

The OT Israel of faith, looked towards the day when their Promise of a Messiah was to come, of whom was Jesus. Now that He has come, and has been the Light of God to all the world, for each generation, both Jew and Gentile, have now the only opportunity
for forgiveness of sins and to receive the Gift of eternal life. Should any neglect to receive Him now, there ARE NO second chances.

Now, since we all do know that before Jesus returns from Heaven, the "MoB" will be manifested to ALL the world, to ALL people. It will be that event whereby in and of itself, God will TRY THEM, by sending strong delusion to believe a lie.
Make no mistake, It will be the global event of God separating the goats (who have taken the MoB) from the sheep (who didn't take the MoB).

All who take the MoB, shall be destroyed, and all who didn't take the MoB, shall be saved.
Do you know how many shall be destroyed?
ALL OF THEM!
Do you know how many will be redeemed?
ALL OF THEM!

WHEN? "In that Day." 2 Thes. 1:10, Luke 17:29

It will be a simultaneous event, whereby DEATH WILL BE NO MORE, for the redeemed, as well as for the unsaved. We shall escape. They shall not!!

And so I ask: if the 1000 years is NOT now the Age of God's Grace, how can it be on the earth AFTER Christ returns in flaming fire (an all consuming fire)?

I have concluded that it can't. It's the new heavens and the new earth made by God. That is WHAT we should be looking for. Not an old earth, remodeled and made over by people WHO WON'T BE HERE.

Don't you know that "the lie" is already in the world?
We hear of it by the "World Economic Forum" and the "UN Agenda 2030", aka "Save the Planet" or "Go Green".

I do not understand why some accept John when he claims there is a mark of the beast , and then reject a 1,000 year reign of Christ. Do you reject that the mark is only during a 42 month period, or is that time symbolic as well? So the sheep avoid the mark, but then cannot even reign with Christ for 1,000 years because they did avoid the mark? The reign of Christ is not even about humans trying to save the earth.

 

[Earburner]

.

I do not understand why some accept John when he claims there is a mark of the beast , and then reject a 1,000 year reign of Christ. Do you reject that the mark is only during a 42 month period, or is that time symbolic as well? So the sheep avoid the mark, but then cannot even reign with Christ for 1,000 years because they did avoid the mark? The reign of Christ is not even about humans trying to save the earth.

Church-ianty has been duped by the wisdom of men.
1Cor.2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

The issue with most Christians is the application of the word "reign".
It's not a future event, but rather right now, a present reality in the Spirit, ever since Pentecost.
We are not reigning OVER anyone or anything, but rather we are now reigning with Christ, for the purposes of going out from His kingdom, as His ambassadors, unto the kingdoms of this world, for the people in them.
2Pet.3[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Every Born Again Christian, by His Spirit, is made to be a new creature in Christ, and has become a member of God's chosen generation of people. We are now a Royal priesthood unto Him, as His ambassadors in His stead.
1Pet.2
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him [unto others], who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
2Cor.5
[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Therefore, in every generation, those who are called out by God, they are indeed reigning with Him for His purposes, which is to help the needy, by preaching and teaching the gospel unto them.
In every generation, the unsaved are desperately in need of God's Grace, being that of His forgiveness of sin and the Gift of His Eternal life, through faith in Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

How long is one day... figuratively speaking?

As long as people still have faith to believe that God exists, and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. It's called the Age of God's Grace. The figurative 1000 years, which is an undisclosed amount of time, as long as God the Father allows time to remain, for people who still have faith to believe that God is.
Luke.18
[8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he FIND faith on the earth?
> So then, it is FAITH that is the determining factor with God the Father, of when He shall send Jesus to redeem His people.
Heb.11
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
> Jesus told us plainly that He did not know of when He shall return:
Matt.24
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
> To this day, even though Jesus is seated at the right hand of God the Father, He still does not know!

However, we all do know what MUST happen first, BEFORE He can return:
2Thes.2
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [from faith] first, (and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition) - "that man of sin" IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD in the plural, as it is written in the "Textus Receptus Greek Text".

> The "MoB" will completely and finally separate those who don't have faith, from those who are SEALED by His Holy Spirit THROUGH faith. In that, God will immediately KNOW those who are His, and those who are none of His.
Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Rom.8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Keraz]

Therefore, in every generation, those who are called out by God, they are indeed reigning with Him for His purposes, which is to help the needy, by preaching and teaching the gospel unto them.

This is how it is now. But we do not have the power yet to come , as Promised.
We Christians do have an amazing future; Revelation 2:9-10

 

[Earburner]

This is how it is now. But we do not have the power yet to come , as Promised.
We Christians do have an amazing future; Revelation 2:9-10

From your reference:
"Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life."
Notice of WHEN it is, that one is sealed unto His Promise of the crown of life.
When Jesus returns in flaming fire, we who are alive and remain, will not have suffered mortal death, BUT IN THAT moment, in a twinkling of an eye, WE WILL BE CHANGED, into His New Life, being that of His immortality.

BTW, aren't we suppose to be looking for new heavens and a new earth, and not one that needs to be made over and remodeled by us?

Yes, we should be looking for that which is New.
2 Peter 3[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Timtofly]

.

Church-ianty has been duped by the wisdom of men.
1Cor.2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

The issue with most Christians is the application of the word "reign".
It's not a future event, but rather right now, a present reality in the Spirit, ever since Pentecost.
We are not reigning OVER anyone or anything, but rather we are now reigning with Christ, for the purposes of going out from His kingdom, as His ambassadors, unto the kingdoms of this world, for the people in them.
2Pet.3[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Every Born Again Christian, by His Spirit, is made to be a new creature in Christ, and has become a member of God's chosen generation of people. We are now a Royal priesthood unto Him, as His ambassadors in His stead.
1Pet.2
[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him [unto others], who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
2Cor.5
[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Therefore, in every generation, those who are called out by God, they are indeed reigning with Him for His purposes, which is to help the needy, by preaching and teaching the gospel unto them.
In every generation, the unsaved are desperately in need of God's Grace, being that of His forgiveness of sin and the Gift of His Eternal life, through faith in Jesus.

The problem is church-ianity came up with preterism, post millennialism, amillenialism, and post tribulation theories instead of the Word of God.

We know what a reign is. Is Christ currently killing every child the second they think their first rebellious thought? Do humans live for hundreds of years?

 

[Earburner]

The problem is church-ianity came up with preterism, post millennialism, amillenialism, and post tribulation theories instead of the Word of God.

We know what a reign is. Is Christ currently killing every child the second they think their first rebellious thought? Do humans live for hundreds of years?

"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner

 

[Earburner]

In the light of Isaiah 55:8-9, think about Jesus' meaning in His words, from both sides of His following statement:
What is peace?
What is division?
KJV Luke 12[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Now think of what the actual cause is, that makes for division:
Luke 12[52] For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
[53] The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

 

[Earburner]

The problem is church-ianity came up with preterism, post millennialism, amillenialism, and post tribulation theories instead of the Word of God.

We know what a reign is. Is Christ currently killing every child the second they think their first rebellious thought? Do humans live for hundreds of years?

I don't think that you are grasping the actual Mind of Christ, in regards to the matter about "reigning with Him". Neither Jesus or we, are destined to reign in glory OVER unsaved people, or even that of each other, in some futuristic Millennium, after He returns FOR US in flaming fire.

Since, Jesus' first appearance, and His ordination of Born Again Christians on Pentecost, His will is empowered through His mission statement:
Luke.9[56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Now, to understand the intensity of His mission, one must fully grasp the fulness of God's judgment of eternal life, that has never been offered in the world before, and the responsibility that each Born Again Christian has been given, to take part in.

Jesus has revealed that through Adam, all people are (physically born) condemned ALREADY. But now, whoever places their faith in Him, they are under no condemnation ever again.
John.3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

When we reach out to others, as ambassadors for Christ, to share the good news/gospel message of repentance towards God, for God's forgiveness of sins, through faith in Jesus, and then for them to receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, we are, in the very essence of Christ's own mission statement, reigning with Him.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't think that you are grasping the actual Mind of Christ, in regards to the matter about "reigning with Him". Neither Jesus or we, are destined to reign in glory OVER unsaved people, or even that of each other, in some futuristic Millennium, after He returns FOR US in flaming fire.

Since, Jesus' first appearance, and His ordination of Born Again Christians on Pentecost, His will is empowered through His mission statement:
Luke.9[56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Now, to understand the intensity of His mission, one must fully grasp the fulness of God's judgment of eternal life, that has never been offered in the world before, and the responsibility that each Born Again Christian has been given, to take part in.

Jesus has revealed that through Adam, all people are (physically born) condemned ALREADY. But now, whoever places their faith in Him, they are under no condemnation ever again.
John.3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

When we reach out to others, as ambassadors for Christ, to share the good news/gospel message of repentance towards God, for God's forgiveness of sins, through faith in Jesus, and then for them to receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, we are, in the very essence of Christ's own mission statement, reigning with Him.

The church right now is not what is at the center of this conversation. The Millennium is not the last 1992 years. So the Millennium has yet to happen. Those who reign, do so on earth, and not from heaven. The church is not on earth during this 1,000 years, so the church has literally nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at all. No sinners are found in the Millennium. A person who disobeys it sentenced to Death. So the natural way of life is to always obey. An unnatural person will be considered cursed, and removed from society. That may sound harsh and totalitarian, but that is the point of an iron rod rule. It will not be totalitarian because no one will be a slave to sin, nor will have any natural desire to sin, like we do. Being a slave to sin and bound in obedience to sin would be totalitarian to those living in the Millennium, and our way of life would seem weird and strange to them.

 

[Earburner]

Psalm 2:1-12
[9] Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

What iron rod rule?

Do you mean this one:
2 Thessalonians 1[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Hmm...the power of a rod of iron
The next time you have rod of iron in your hand, go find a clay flower pot, and then suddenly hit it with all your might. Then let us all know if the "shivers" were restored back to the original condition of the flower pot, or even better.
I think we all know that it would be destroyed!

 

[Earburner]

No sinners are found in the Millennium. A person who disobeys it sentenced to Death. So the natural way of life is to always obey. An unnatural person will be considered cursed, and removed from society. That may sound harsh and totalitarian, but that is the point of an iron rod rule. It will not be totalitarian because no one will be a slave to sin, nor will have any natural desire to sin, like we do. Being a slave to sin and bound in obedience to sin would be totalitarian to those living in the Millennium, and our way of life would seem weird and strange to them.

"No sinners are found in the millennium"?
Are you sure about that, because that is NOT what you are describing.
What, I mean is, if a person "disdobeys it" (the Law), and are sentenced to death, that means that SIN was in him, and therefore they were a SINNER, before they sinned.

Do you know what it is that you are actually describing in all of your post? Satan's "nwo" of "peace and safety", while we are still flesh, which is HIS form of a millennium, through the UN, the Image of the Beast with 10 horns.
EDIT: By the way, if there are no sinners there, why is the Law there??