Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Truther]

matt 21:43
That who’s the successors of Moses had in Matt 23 was given to the church of the apostles
New covenant replaced old
Church replaced Israel
Christ replaced David lk 1:32-33
New creation replaced the old
New mass replaced the Passover
Sunday replaced sat as the two sabbath

The RCC replaced scripture with commentary.

 

[Truther]

most not all

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS

It will shortly happen.

We are still here.

 

[Truther]

Let us examine that , the church gave birth to Christ . HOW ON EARTH IS THAT POSSIBLE
when the church IS THE BODY OF SAID CHRIST . Folks are being duped real bad my friend .

...REAL bad!

 

[Truther]

I have never said that "the church gave birth to Christ!"

You you do not comprehend is that God's plan of salvation originated in the the Garden of Eden when he clothed Adam and Eve with "coats of skins". Genesis 3:15 is the "seed promise" of the Savior. God began building "his people" with Adam and Eve which would be the first members of God's "church in the wilderness." God then "created a line of circumcized people; the Jews" so that people would know WHO, WHEN, WHERE, HOW through whom that Savior would come. Those "people; the Jews" were the congregation, assembly, the elect, the remnant, Israel, etc. (the ekklesia = church).

Israel is the Christian Church. The Christian Church is Israel. The Christian Church does not replace Israel, it is Israel and always has been Israel. The New Testament writings reveal clearly that there is only one Israel, only one Church, only one elect whether Jew or Gentile by birth. It is impossible to cut a straight course in the Word of truth until we grasp the concept that there is only one Israel of God.

If YOU teach the woman in Rev 12 is the church, then YOU teach the church gave birth to Christ.

 

[Truther]

This was out of your mouth NOT MINE!!!!

I have never "taught that the church gave birth to Christ!" Christ always existed - long before Adam and Eve. So please tell me how you get out of anything I said that "the church" could ever give birth to Christ.

Please correct your statement that puts words into my mouth that I never said!

No, YOU must say the woman in Rev 12 is NOT the church, but some other unknown(to you) entity.

Otherwise you teach the church gave birth to Christ per the passage by default.

You have no choice, preterist.

 

[Moriah's Song]

No, YOU must say the woman in Rev 12 is NOT the church, but some other unknown(to you) entity.

I will still let those commentators (who are NOT PRETERISTS) speak for themselves! I will not say that it is not the church nor will I say that "the church gave birth to Christ." I do not care what preterism is because I don't believe that the New Testament teaches preterism. I believe the "true church of Christ" began in the garden of Eden as the symbolism of "the tree of life" that kept growing and will continue to grow along with Jews and Gentiles as one body.

A repost of 10 Rev 12:1 Commentators who agree that "the woman = the church"

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
It is the picture of the bride, the Church.
Benson Commentary
“St. John resumes his subject from the beginning, and represents the church (Revelation 12:1-2) as a woman, and a mother bearing children unto Christ.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
12:1-6 The church, under the emblem of a woman, the mother of believers, was seen by the apostle in vision, in heaven. She was clothed with the sun, justified, sanctified, and shining by union with Christ, the Sun of Righteousness.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
The woman, beyond all question, represents the church.
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
1. This episode (Re 12:1-15:8) describes in detail the persecution of Israel and the elect Church by the beast, which had been summarily noticed....As new Jerusalem (called also "the woman," or "wife," Re 21:2, 9-12), with its twelve gates, is the exalted and transfigured Church, so the woman with the twelve stars is the Church militant. Revelation 12:1,2 A woman clothed with the sun travaileth,
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
...and the church apostolical is here called "a woman", because the church was not now in its infancy,
Geneva Study Bible
Of which two the beginning of the Church is described in this chapter, and the progress of it in the chapter following.
Meyer's NT Commentary
Whether and in what way the Church is to be understood by the woman, cannot be inferred until the close of the entire vision,[3022] since the particular points of the text condition the meaning of the whole. The emblematic description (περιβεβλημένη
Pulpit Commentary
The woman, the Church, though on earth, is nevertheless, by virtue of her union with Christ, in heaven." A woman. The woman is undoubtedly the Church of God;
Vincent's Word Studies
The symbol is usually taken to represent the Church.δώδεκα) represents the woman who is just about bearing, Revelation 12:2, in a heavenly brilliancy reminding us of the manifestation of Christ[3023] and of God.[3024]

 

[theefaith]

What I said before....are we your servants? You should post the text rather than making us do your work for you!

It’s better than most on here that have no documentation at all

 

[theefaith]

We really have been trying hard to do that!

be specific and use scripture KJV please

 

[theefaith]

Start with the doctrine of the Bible alone please

 

[Moriah's Song]

It’s better than most on here that have no documentation at all

From what I have read so far your documentaion is rarely on target with scripture alone!

 

[theefaith]

The RCC replaced scripture with commentary.

Interpretation provides meaning!

Meaning provides understanding!

Understanding produces unity!

Examples:

Text: a Fat sandwich man.

What does it mean: a fat man making sandwiches?

Or does it mean: a man making fat sandwiches?

No Hurry:

Does it mean we don’t have time so hurry up?

Or does it mean we got lots of time?

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits?
Or the seven gifts of the spirit?

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches?

Or the one church at seven different locations?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

 

[theefaith]

It will shortly happen.

We are still here.

most of it is fulfilled and not literal

 

[theefaith]

From what I have read so far your documentaion is rarely on target with scripture alone!

explain this strange doctrine please

“Bible alone”?
“Bible only authority”?
“Word of God limited to the Bible alone”?

where does scripture teach this

 

[Moriah's Song]

“Bible alone”?

If God wanted traditions to be included in the Bible he would have ensured that they would be in there! But when humans make up their own "traditions" those "traditions" end up being rules that put a yoke upon unsuspecting people. God's Word only is solid, truthful and without fault. Nothing in history compare to it. Why follow the "traditions" of the Roman church when God says "no traditions" outside what I say; and even when humans twist what I say in my Word. That would be being disobedient to God's Word would it not? In this day and age I trust no ones thoughts about scripture without verifying it is true.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Pearl]

Why follow the "traditions" of the Roman church when God says "no traditions" outside what I say; and not what humans twist even what I say. That would be being disobedient to God's Word.

The Anglican church too has traditions and the same liturgy year after year, season after season. Where is the Holy Spirit in all this ritual and tradition? He needs to be free to move within Christ's church and not be quenched by man-made rituals and an everlasting round of prayers for this occasion and readings for that particular Sunday.

 

[Moriah's Song]

The Anglican church too has traditions and the same liturgy year after year, season after season. Where is the Holy Spirit in all this ritual and tradition? He needs to be free to move within Christ's church and not be quenched by man-made rituals and an everlasting round of prayers for this occasion and readings for that particular Sunday.

I agree for the most part. I know there are traditions within the "church" that I disagree with such as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, altar calls, and even the pledge of allegiance, and bible drills + more. But I don't think they are going to agree with me though!!

I will say this though, our church is very dedicated to prayer, fellowship amongst the members, reaching out the the commuties poor, prayer line, missionaries, sending bibles from the Gideons and bible studies from scripture alone. If we are not in church for a few Sundays, we get a call to see if we are ok.

 

[theefaith]

If God wanted traditions to be included in the Bible he would have ensured that they would be in there! But when humans make up their own "traditions" those "traditions" end up being rules that put a yoke upon unsuspecting people. God's Word only is solid, truthful and without fault. Nothing in history compare to it. Why follow the "traditions" of the Roman church when God says "no traditions" outside what I say; and even when humans twist what I say in my Word. That would be being disobedient to God's Word would it not? In this day and age I trust no ones thoughts about scripture without verifying it is true.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

by tradition we must Understand we are not speaking of customs and habits, but the teaching authority of the apostles!

They are in the scripture
Example
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

I received of the Lord and made known to you.

that’s tradition
Teaching authority of the apostles

how can you say this is scripture written by the apostle Paul but cos of the doctrine of the “Bible alone” Paul can’t interpret or tell us the meaning?

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[Moriah's Song]

by tradition we must Understand we are not speaking of customs and habits, but the teaching authority of the apostles!

Oh, no! Now you are quoting scripture whereas before you have been defending the traditions of the Roman catholic church's traditions OVER AND ABOVE SCRIPTURE when they are oceans away apart. For two examples among a multitude of RCC traditions is idolatry of Mary and praying to idols. You will not find either one of those "traditions" in the apostles writings at all from Matthew to Revelations!!!

 

[face2face]

@theefaith #1290

 

[theefaith]

Oh, no! Now you are quoting scripture whereas before you have been defending the traditions of the Roman catholic church's traditions OVER AND ABOVE SCRIPTURE when they are oceans away apart. For two examples among a multitude of RCC traditions is idolatry of Mary and praying to idols. You will not find either one of those "traditions" in the apostles writings at all from Matthew to Revelations!!!

they are also not catholic either