Christians are not under the New Covenant

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face2face

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Do you realize
If the church is defiled then Christ is defiled

The church is an extension of Christ!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Pre creedal faith is the only way.
 

face2face

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Do you realize
If the church is defiled then Christ is defiled

The church is an extension of Christ!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Yahweh's people were defiled and they were His bride...your logic is false! Hosea 6:10; Ezekiel 4:13; Hosea 5:3 etc. Your wisdom would make God Himself defiled?
 
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theefaith

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Not in the original MSS but I get the implication.
Mainstream Christianity has long been defiled by wrong teaching...by those even who call themselves Apostles.

whats MSS a manuscript?

If you say it not in the original then you must be able to produce the original
 

Moriah's Song

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Bishops the successors of the apostles and the priests they ordain do have this power
They may be "ordained" by the RCC but they are NOT ordained by the apostles as it contradicts scripture because only Christ has been "ordained" directly by God to have the power and the right to forgive man of sins.
 

face2face

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whats MSS a manuscript?

If you say it not in the original then you must be able to produce the original
There is no point! you're a fake and all your great swelling words "post after post" wont change that. You need to be silent and be taught again.
 
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theefaith

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Another long irrelevant post that most people don't bother because they see your repeated posts over and over and over again!

It's what is called as "attention getting"

It's what people do that need to be the center of attention all the time....especially those who are on multiple forums with multiple threads after threads.

not called to be successful but faithful
 

theefaith

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Pre creedal faith is the only way.

what creed?

The Apostles Creed!

I believe in one God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

Acts 2:42
 

face2face

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what creed?

The Apostles Creed!

I believe in one God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

Acts 2:42

And is this the only creed you believe?
 

keithr

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Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, so you will not take part in her sins and so you will not receive her plagues, because her sins have piled up all the way to heaven and God has remembered her crimes." NET v2.1

Clearly this is "Babylon the great", not the church. Context matters!
May I point out that the word Babylon means 'confusion (by mixing)'.
 

Moriah's Song

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the church cannot be corrupt
Matt 16:18 shall not prevail
Mat 16:13...Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?"
Mat 16:14...And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Mat 16:15...He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Mat 16:16...Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17...Jesus answered, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18...And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Caesarea Philippi was like a red-light district in their world and devout Jews would have avoided any contact with the despicable acts committed there. It was a city of people eagerly knocking on the doors of hell.

Standing near the pagan temples of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked his disciples "Who do you say that I am?" Peter boldly replied, "You are the Son of the living God."

Jesus continued, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it" (see Matt. 16:13-20).

At that time, Jesus and his disciples were in Caesarea Philippi when he said that His church would be built on the "rock." He was standing on the very rock of Caesarea Philippi, a rock literally filled with niches for pagan idols, where ungodly values dominated.

By saying that the gates of hell would not overcome, Jesus suggested that those gates were going to be attacked.

Standing as they were at a literal "Gate of Hades," the disciples may have been overwhelmed by Jesus' challenge. They had studied under their rabbi for several years, and now he was commissioning them to a huge task: to attack evil, and to build the church on the very places that were most filled with moral corruption.

Jesus presented a clear challenge with his words at Caesarea Philippi: He didn't want his followers hiding from evil: He wanted them to storm the gates of hell. (Gates of Hell)
The interesting part of this article for me was that when Jesus said this it was neither in Jerusalem nor in Rome at the time. It was after that that they returned to Jerusalem, to the Mt. of Olives. Here Jesus tells them to..."not to depart from Jerusalem, (Act 1:4 )

So then Jesus says to the 12 disciples (not just Peter)..."But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth." (Act 1:8)

Now later on we see just how the early church was governed...."And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question....When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by "the church and the apostles and the elders," and they declared all that God had done with them. (Act 15:2,4)

And that is how the Protestant churches, for the most part, are governed today! No Pope needed - especially a false pope!
 

Moriah's Song

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Not teach error
Jn 8:32 16:13
You left out a very important verse (31)....

"Jesus then said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." (Jhn 8:31-32)​

The Roman Catholic church should practice what it preaches.

Jhn 16:13..."When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

Evidently the Roman Church didn't listen?

Jhn 8:32..."And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
 
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theefaith

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They may be "ordained" by the RCC but they are NOT ordained by the apostles as it contradicts scripture because only Christ has been "ordained" directly by God to have the power and the right to forgive man of sins.

better start explaining these verses

Matt 16:18 & 18:18
Jn 20:21
Jn 20:23
Acts 1:15-26
 

theefaith

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But one is not faithful when idolatry of Mary is elevated over Christ, prayers are to Mary and other saints, and a multitude of false traditions of the Roman Church are taught to be from scripture when they aren't.

the commandment forbids lying

I never said or did anything involving idolatry of Mary!

In the true church christ is always
The center and the highest!

never elevated anyone over Christ

Christ is God
Christ is savior
Christ is king

I never said these about Mary!
 

theefaith

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Fundamentalism is extremist and a violation of the Christian virtue of moderation! Phil 4:5

Jesus did not say learn of me cos I’m full of pride, presumption, & arrogance but Learn of me meek for I am meek and humble of heart!

It is impossible to reason with a fundamentalist or have logical conclusions cos they have no logic and no reason!

Fundamentalism: faith without reason!

It’s like beating your head against a brick wall, all you get is a bloody headache!

Fundamentalism is unbiblical: Phil 4:5 Matt 11:29


Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
 

theefaith

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Mat 16:13...Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?"
Mat 16:14...And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Mat 16:15...He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Mat 16:16...Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17...Jesus answered, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18...And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Caesarea Philippi was like a red-light district in their world and devout Jews would have avoided any contact with the despicable acts committed there. It was a city of people eagerly knocking on the doors of hell.

Standing near the pagan temples of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus asked his disciples "Who do you say that I am?" Peter boldly replied, "You are the Son of the living God."

Jesus continued, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it" (see Matt. 16:13-20).

At that time, Jesus and his disciples were in Caesarea Philippi when he said that His church would be built on the "rock." He was standing on the very rock of Caesarea Philippi, a rock literally filled with niches for pagan idols, where ungodly values dominated.

By saying that the gates of hell would not overcome, Jesus suggested that those gates were going to be attacked.

Standing as they were at a literal "Gate of Hades," the disciples may have been overwhelmed by Jesus' challenge. They had studied under their rabbi for several years, and now he was commissioning them to a huge task: to attack evil, and to build the church on the very places that were most filled with moral corruption.

Jesus presented a clear challenge with his words at Caesarea Philippi: He didn't want his followers hiding from evil: He wanted them to storm the gates of hell. (Gates of Hell)
The interesting part of this article for me was that when Jesus said this it was neither in Jerusalem nor in Rome at the time. It was after that that they returned to Jerusalem, to the Mt. of Olives. Here Jesus tells them to..."not to depart from Jerusalem, (Act 1:4 )

So then Jesus says to the 12 disciples (not just Peter)..."But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Sama'ria and to the end of the earth." (Act 1:8)

Now later on we see just how the early church was governed...."And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question....When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by "the church and the apostles and the elders," and they declared all that God had done with them. (Act 15:2,4)

And that is how the Protestant churches, for the most part, are governed today! No Pope needed - especially a false pope!

both of these church councils were decided by PETER!