Christians are not under the New Covenant
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No it's not necessary. Jesus didn't wear special garb. He was a carpenter.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Only for those that need attention.
No it does not!
Yes, but the specific attire was meticuously directed by God for a reason.
No he did not! That is not in N.T. scripture. He did wear a special linen cloth but it was not anywhere near what the pope wears that looks like a Halloween outfit!
Besides, that was OT law. We are in the NT. There is not one shred of evidence that the apostles wore anything but their own clothes.
face2face
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face2face
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@theefaith you left Monday at 10:20 PM #1282 it well alone?
Your silence acknowledged God's people were idolatrous and defiled many times throughout their history, though you believe the Church is somehow beyond such defilement?
I noted you reluctance to engage
.Almost as though you had a rethink, or maybe you were reluctant to acknowledge you were wrong on that occasion.
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Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
The "end times" basically began with Gen 3:15 and will end with Revelations.
However, since the cross, we do refer also to the "end times" of this particular age. This "age" meaning there is no rapture of the church, no literal 1,000 years, and no new temple with sacrifices. Therefore, this "age" will end when we hear the last trumpet and see Christ coming on the clouds of glory! It is the opinion of many that Christ has stood up from his throne and is standing ---- which is a term that He is ready to act.
Are you ready for Him or are you too obsessed with Mary and the heretical Roman church to notice that the "signs" are all in place now?
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Is the Roman Catholic church correct in saying that it is the mother of all believers?
What does the Bible say?
In Galatians 4:26, the apostle Paul writes “but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.”
According to the Bible it is the Jerusalem above which is our spiritual mother. It is the people of God who are already in heaven. It is not an earthly institution.
Considering that the Roman Catholic church is full of a system of salvation by penance, works and religious loyalty to itself, misleadingly referred to as “faith”, it hardly qualifies for the adjective “free”.
The Jerusalem above is free from sin, and free from legalism. This cannot be said of the Roman Catholic church based in Rome.
No earthly institution, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Society, or the so called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), can claim to be the authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer.
God has not entrusted any such group with this role. The apostle James, arguably the principle leader of the earthly church at Jerusalem (see Acts 15) said in his letter, “We all stumble in many ways”.
Check what Jesus said about calling nobody your father:
Matthew 23 (WEB):
(1) Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
(2) saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses’ seat.
(3) All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do.
(4) For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them.
(5) But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments,
(6) and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,
(7) the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi, Rabbi’ by men.
(8) But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers.
(9) Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.
(10) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ.
(11) But he who is greatest among you will be your servant.
(12) Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
(13) “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and as a pretense you make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
(14) “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don’t enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.
(15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves.
etc.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
covenants
the heavenly Jerusalem refers to the new covenant church as mother
holy mother church
Sometimes with scripture you must have deductions or logical conclusions
example
there are three wise men or kings
but scripture never says there are three of them, so how do we know there are three?
cos there were three gifts!
gold, frankincense, and myrrh
do the logical conclusion or deduction is there were three!
example
there are three wise men or kings
but scripture never says there are three of them, so how do we know there are three?
cos there were three gifts!
gold, frankincense, and myrrh
do the logical conclusion or deduction is there were three!
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Matt. 23:9 – Jesus says, “call no man father.” But keithr uses this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.” This is an example of “eisegesis” (imposing one’s views upon a passage) as opposed to “exegesis” (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.
No Catholic in their right mind elevates any priest to that level, and no funnymentalist has any evidence to the contrary.
Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.
Judges 17:10; 18:19 – priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means “communicating one’s nature,” and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.
Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?” (is it because they reject any notion of spiritual fatherhood???)
1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”
Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8 – Jesus refers to Abraham as our “father.”
Mark 11:10 – the people cried out blessed is the kingdom of our “father” David that is coming!
read more here
Evidently, biblical illiterates use the "call no man father" canard to attack a practice held by the Apostles. It's a very uncharitable cheap shot.
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as high priest he was required to wear special garb liturgy or the offering of sacrifice requires it
Christ as high priest wore special required garb
Seamless garment Jn 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did
Christ as high priest wore special required garb
Seamless garment Jn 19:23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did
he is the high priest so there must be low priests
Thy zeal has blinded thee to the truth!
moderation is a Christian virtue not fundamentalism
fundamentalism is outer darkness
Christ is the light of faith
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Where do you find that Jesus was required to wear a special garb in that verse?
In the true church no one person should be more important than another. We are all part of the same body.
The way i see the three person Godhead is God - the mind, Jesus - the flesh and the Holy Spirit the heart or soul and we are all made in that image. Each of has the three parts that make us uniquely who we are.
@theefaith you left Monday at 10:20 PM #1282 it well alone?
Your silence acknowledged God's people were idolatrous and defiled many times throughout their history, though you believe the Church is somehow beyond such defilement?
I noted you reluctance to engage
Almost as though you had a rethink, or maybe you were reluctant to acknowledge you were wrong on that occasion.
no not at all
the church is founded by Christ
Holy
Prepared by God spotless
cannot teach error
Jn 16:13
Matt 16:18-19
Rev 22:19 holy city
Rev 21:2 prepared by God
Prophecy of the new covenant church fulfilled in the apostolic union with Christ!
Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Christ the king!
The king of kings!
Christ is King of Glory!
Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1
One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!
Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Christ is the king!
Isa. 9:6-7 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Holy Mother Church!
The new covenant!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
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