Who has the authority…

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Robert Gwin

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baptism is rendered meaningless!!

Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

baptism is rendered meaningless!! Baptism is a requriement for maturing Christians sir

Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”? It doesn't

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”? It doesn't

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”? It doesn't

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”? It doesn't

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”? It doesn't

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”? It doesn't

May I ask why you asked me these questions? We teach that faith without works is dead sir, so we are in full agreement on this point.
 

Robert Gwin

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Hmmmm....If getting baptized with water is only "symbolic" then why do it? How does symbol "wash away your sins" (Acts 22:16)? 1 Peter 3:21 says “baptism . . . now saves you.” How does a symbol save you Robert?

Curious Mary

Baptism does not save you maam, the Bible clearly shows that most will not be saved, but most are baptized. How can water wash away sins? People sin after their baptism as well. Perhaps we will have to disagree on this point, as I have explained our beliefs on the subject. All who are saved are saved through the price that Jesus paid for them.
 

theefaith

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Hi Mary, the Bible identifies the faith beyond any doubt, and it is rather easy to see.

Just as you stated there are over 2 billion who claim to be Christian at this time, however most of those are not in the one faith as you likely recognize, but are distributed over thousands of sects teaching their own doctrine. Jesus said Christians would be recognized by their fruits, so after you personally determine which faith is God's people, then see the number of adherents of that faith maam.

Would you like to go through some passages that identify God's people?

give us you’re creed

ours is these

The Apostles Creed!

I believe in one God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

and

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully
 

theefaith

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No sir, I have not said that. God's inspired word is limited to Scripture alone. Explanations/revelations of God's word today comes through the assigned faithful slave. Mat 24:45-47

then why don’t you believe what Christ and his church teaches?
 

theefaith

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baptism is rendered meaningless!! Baptism is a requriement for maturing Christians sir

(Baptism makes us Christian)

Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”? It doesn't

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”? It doesn't

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”? It doesn't

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”? It doesn't

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”? It doesn't

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”? It doesn't

May I ask why you asked me these questions? We teach that faith without works is dead sir, so we are in full agreement on this point.

Ok thanks
 

Robert Gwin

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give us you’re creed

ours is these

The Apostles Creed!

I believe in one God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

and

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully
 

Robert Gwin

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Mar 19, 2021
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give us you’re creed

ours is these

The Apostles Creed!

I believe in one God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

and

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings, there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself.He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully

I agree with your Apostles Creed Faith, with the exception of Jesus being His only son. Since the others contradict that one, then I disagree with them, you need to make up your mind which one of them you agree with, then we can further discuss the topic.
 

theefaith

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Example sir?

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

Marymog

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Baptism does not save you maam, the Bible clearly shows that most will not be saved, but most are baptized. How can water wash away sins? People sin after their baptism as well. Perhaps we will have to disagree on this point, as I have explained our beliefs on the subject. All who are saved are saved through the price that Jesus paid for them.
Well Robert, now I have got a tough decision to make. Should I believe YOU or Scripture?

Scripture literally says And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you! We must obey Christ and follow in his footsteps to be saved. He was baptized and instructed us to baptize. Soooooo if I disobey Christ and I don't follow in his footsteps I won't be saved. We are to follow the teachings of his Apostles and they baptized and told us to get baptized. Sooooooooo my decision isn't really tough! I believe Scripture, not you!

As far as your question, "How can water wash away sins?". Don't ask me, ask God. Those are His words, not mine! I live by faith, not sight (2 Corinthians 5:7). I have faith that He is not lying to me. But I can see that you are lying to me.

I hope you have a pleasant day...Mary
 

Marymog

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Hi Mary, the Bible identifies the faith beyond any doubt, and it is rather easy to see.

Just as you stated there are over 2 billion who claim to be Christian at this time, however most of those are not in the one faith as you likely recognize, but are distributed over thousands of sects teaching their own doctrine. Jesus said Christians would be recognized by their fruits, so after you personally determine which faith is God's people, then see the number of adherents of that faith maam.

Would you like to go through some passages that identify God's people?
If "the Bible identifies the faith beyond any doubt" and it is "rather easy to see" then why are there, as you said, "thousands of sects teaching their own doctrine"? Can you see how your own theory contradicted itself in just a few short sentences?

Furthermore, you are right when Jesus said that a Christian will be recognized by their fruit. But Scripture says A LOT more than those 7 words out of THOUSANDS in the Bible on what it takes to be saved AND to be a good Christian!

No, I do not want to go through your arbitrary and cherry picked passages that you have been taught by your men to identify God's people. I suspect you feel you have fulfilled those passages and you think you are one of "God's people" based on those passages but I don't need to hear what you have been taught by your men.
 

Robert Gwin

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Well Robert, now I have got a tough decision to make. Should I believe YOU or Scripture?

Scripture literally says And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you! We must obey Christ and follow in his footsteps to be saved. He was baptized and instructed us to baptize. Soooooo if I disobey Christ and I don't follow in his footsteps I won't be saved. We are to follow the teachings of his Apostles and they baptized and told us to get baptized. Sooooooooo my decision isn't really tough! I believe Scripture, not you!

As far as your question, "How can water wash away sins?". Don't ask me, ask God. Those are His words, not mine! I live by faith, not sight (2 Corinthians 5:7). I have faith that He is not lying to me. But I can see that you are lying to me.

I hope you have a pleasant day...Mary

Fact is maam, the Bible does say that baptism saves you, but the true fact is as well, that many who are baptized will not receive salvation, and many who are not, will. Believe it or not.
Baptism is a step that maturing Christians take in their path of becoming a disciple.
 

Robert Gwin

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If "the Bible identifies the faith beyond any doubt" and it is "rather easy to see" then why are there, as you said, "thousands of sects teaching their own doctrine"? Can you see how your own theory contradicted itself in just a few short sentences?

Furthermore, you are right when Jesus said that a Christian will be recognized by their fruit. But Scripture says A LOT more than those 7 words out of THOUSANDS in the Bible on what it takes to be saved AND to be a good Christian!

No, I do not want to go through your arbitrary and cherry picked passages that you have been taught by your men to identify God's people. I suspect you feel you have fulfilled those passages and you think you are one of "God's people" based on those passages but I don't need to hear what you have been taught by your men.

Great question maam, I am glad you asked. The Bible answers that as well. It was prophesied a great apostasy would occur 2 Thes 2:3, and it was well established by the end of the apostles lives. 1 Jn 2:18,19. It had been escalating for many yrs before John penned that Acts 20:29,30. Even in the first century so many had broken off that the apostasy had started and so few were left. Christianity basically died off, however the prophecy found at Isa 2:2-4 showed that during the last day time period (time from Jesus became King, to his return), God would gather His people once again into pure worship, and by the return of Jesus they would be separated into sheep and goats.
Although well established by the death of the apostles, there were still relatively few sects, but nearly 2 millenniums of time has passed, so as people continue to break away there are tens of thousands of faiths claiming to be Christian now. And it is greatly multiplying according to some sources about 50 yrs ago there were 10 major religions with about 10,000 sects off of them, now there is claimed to be over 30,000 sects. Yet only those who are being regathered in the prophecy of Isaiah are actually God's people. That is an identifying passage that helps you to identify the faith Mary. Among all the faiths you are aware of, who have become a faith during the last days who worship Jehovah exclusively, well educated in His ways and walk in His paths, having beaten their swords into plowshares?

I don't ask you to listen to me, but rather listen to the Bible. If you choose not to use your Bible to identify the people of God, and choose not to go with them, then who's shoulders does it fall upon when Jesus returns?
 

Marymog

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Great question maam, I am glad you asked. The Bible answers that as well. It was prophesied a great apostasy would occur 2 Thes 2:3, and it was well established by the end of the apostles lives. 1 Jn 2:18,19. It had been escalating for many yrs before John penned that Acts 20:29,30. Even in the first century so many had broken off that the apostasy had started and so few were left. Christianity basically died off, however the prophecy found at Isa 2:2-4 showed that during the last day time period (time from Jesus became King, to his return), God would gather His people once again into pure worship, and by the return of Jesus they would be separated into sheep and goats.
Although well established by the death of the apostles, there were still relatively few sects, but nearly 2 millenniums of time has passed, so as people continue to break away there are tens of thousands of faiths claiming to be Christian now. And it is greatly multiplying according to some sources about 50 yrs ago there were 10 major religions with about 10,000 sects off of them, now there is claimed to be over 30,000 sects. Yet only those who are being regathered in the prophecy of Isaiah are actually God's people. That is an identifying passage that helps you to identify the faith Mary. Among all the faiths you are aware of, who have become a faith during the last days who worship Jehovah exclusively, well educated in His ways and walk in His paths, having beaten their swords into plowshares?

I don't ask you to listen to me, but rather listen to the Bible. If you choose not to use your Bible to identify the people of God, and choose not to go with them, then who's shoulders does it fall upon when Jesus returns?
Thanks Robert. That is a fascinating interpretation of Scripture I don't recall ever hearing before. So let me see if I understand you correctly: You have been taught that the great apostasy written about in Scripture occurred before all of NT Scripture had even been written or lived out by the Apostles? Even though only a few thousand people in the entire world (a very, very small percentage) at that time had even heard of Jesus, there was a great apostasy? That is a fascinating teaching.

Are you, or the denomination you belong to, one of "God's people" who are "being regathered in the prophecy of Isaiah"?
 

Robert Gwin

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Thanks Robert. That is a fascinating interpretation of Scripture I don't recall ever hearing before. So let me see if I understand you correctly: You have been taught that the great apostasy written about in Scripture occurred before all of NT Scripture had even been written or lived out by the Apostles? Even though only a few thousand people in the entire world (a very, very small percentage) at that time had even heard of Jesus, there was a great apostasy? That is a fascinating teaching.

Are you, or the denomination you belong to, one of "God's people" who are "being regathered in the prophecy of Isaiah"?

Actually Mary even before Paul died he said this: (Colossians 1:23) . . .continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast, not being shifted away from the hope of that good news that you heard and that was preached in all creation under heaven. . . .
Likely more than you realize were familiar with Jesus.

Would you like to pursue Biblical identification of the people that belong to God maam?
 

Marymog

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Actually Mary even before Paul died he said this: (Colossians 1:23) . . .continue in the faith, established on the foundation and steadfast, not being shifted away from the hope of that good news that you heard and that was preached in all creation under heaven. . . .
Likely more than you realize were familiar with Jesus.

Would you like to pursue Biblical identification of the people that belong to God maam?
Are you, or the denomination you belong to, one of "God's people" who are "being regathered in the prophecy of Isaiah"?
 

MatthewG

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No one has any authority. (When it comes to the Bible).

God also is the sole life giver. Jesus was given the authority (Matthew 28:18). The Bible is a history book pertaining to the Nation of Israel (and other facets within the context), the Bible is inspired by God for anyone who is seeking to know the true and living God who created all of the earth, creature, and man.

Many people may claim to have some type of authority but does it make it true? No.

The only final people who were indeed in authority of the Apostolic church in the first century was the Apostles who were adamantly stressing the return of Christ in their generation.

The Bible is still useful and trust worthy to learn about God dealing with mankind, and how God through the Lord Jesus reconciled the world back to himself.

The Bible should be used and read in conjunction with prayer and the holy spirit.

For centuries the Bible has been used to abuse people. So it depends on how a teaching is done and what a person says and one should pay attention to what the Holy Spirit may signal to you, if you teacher is using the Bible for edification or if it used to condemn and blast people into hell or if someone simply needs help to learn more about the truths of God and Jesus.

It’s always good to respond in the spirit dealing with others sometimes that is hard to do. I’m guilty of it.

My encouragement think for yourself.

in Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
 
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