Who has the authority…

[Marymog]

And as usual, you've "burst no bubble", and your ridiculous brainwashed rhetoric is totally ignored.

Totally dude....

 

[Marymog]

Who decides if the church leaders you speak of "are in harmony with the Bible's teachings" and what they told me "to do is in line with Scripture"?
Hi Mary, more than happy to help maam. This really takes us back to the original question of who interprets. The answer is you do.

Completly and uttterly not logical, not true and not biblical.

There have been BILLIONS of Christians who have lived since the time of Christ and your theory suggest that every single one of them has the authoirty to PROPERLY interpret Scripture.....That is not logical.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Completly and uttterly not logical, not true and not biblical.

There have been BILLIONS of Christians who have lived since the time of Christ and your theory suggest that every single one of them has the authoirty to PROPERLY interpret Scripture.....That is not logical.

Chuckle!!! SO you don't believe that God can give His HOLY SPIRIT to every Born Again Christian as a guide into all truth???? Jesus SAID that He'd do exactly that, but YOU want to be led around by the nose by a bunch of old men in dresses and funny hats!!!???

 

[Marymog]

Chuckle!!! SO you don't believe that God can give His HOLY SPIRIT to every Born Again Christian as a guide into all truth???? Jesus SAID that He'd do exactly that, but YOU want to be led around by the nose by a bunch of old men in dresses and funny hats!!!???

chuckle chuckle...Didn't say that Bob....Read it again here: There have been BILLIONS of Christians who have lived since the time of Christ and your theory suggest that every single one of them has the authority to PROPERLY interpret Scripture.

2 Peter 3:16 which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Titus 1:9He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
Hebrews 13:9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.
2Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

So if YOU believe that the billions of Christians that have ever lived and read Scripture are guided buy the Holy Spirit into the truth and all of them have come up with the truth on their own then what you believe is OPPOSITE of what Scripture teaches. Out of the billions I am sure that there are some who were "unstable" who 'distorted' 'Scripture to their own destruction' and they did not 'hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught' and did not adhere to the "sound doctrine" which caused them to be "led away by diverse and strange teachings" because the did not listen to the men of The Church who were "rightly handling the word of truth."

But, I get it. Me quoting Scripture to prove you embarrassingly wrong was a waste of my time. And that's ok. I prefer to speak the truth instead of giving my opinion. Keep leading yourself (or whatever twisted man is teaching you) by the nose. I hope that eventually your nose will get sore and you will pull away from those unstable men and run very fast in your new running shoes.

 

[ScottA]

it is Christ who makes Peter father and head of the church on earth

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20

Your words have sealed your fate...not as it might have been, but because you prefer it. Matthew 24:51 2 Thessalonians 2:11

 

[theefaith]

Your words have sealed your fate...not as it might have been, but because you prefer it. Matthew 24:51 2 Thessalonians 2:11

what’s the alternative “you’re spiritual anarchy”???

There is a big difference between the people, the laity, the nations and the priesthood, the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

 

[ScottA]

what’s the alternative “you’re spiritual anarchy”???

Your fruit betrays you.

The Spirit is big and scary to you, because fear is based on the unknown.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

chuckle chuckle...Didn't say that Bob....Read it again here: There have been BILLIONS of Christians who have lived since the time of Christ and your theory suggest that every single one of them has the authority to PROPERLY interpret Scripture.

2 Peter 3:16 which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Titus 1:9He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
Hebrews 13:9 Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.
2Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

So if YOU believe that the billions of Christians that have ever lived and read Scripture are guided buy the Holy Spirit into the truth

Chuckle!! of course not. Just because the Holy Spirit indwells Christians, doesn't mean they don't over-ride Him and do what they please. What I SAID was the Jesus SENT THE SPIRIT TO GUIDE INTO ALL TRUTH, and BIBLICALLY the anointing is ours as Born Again Christians.

AND of course everybody that SAYS they're a "Christian" ain't one. SInce the Roman Catholic systerm LEADS AWAY from Biblical Christianity, what do you suppose the percentage of Born Again Christians there are in the Catholic religions???

Are YOU "Ignorant and "Unstable". do you or your "Church" DISTORT SCRIPTURE, DOes your system spread "Diverse" and "Strange" teachings (like "Limbo", Purgatorial Sanctification, Eating flesh and drinking BLOOD in your weekly gatherings, the Catholic "Mary thing", etc.

 

[Marymog]

Chuckle!! of course not. Just because the Holy Spirit indwells Christians, doesn't mean they don't over-ride Him and do what they please. What I SAID was the Jesus SENT THE SPIRIT TO GUIDE INTO ALL TRUTH, and BIBLICALLY the anointing is ours as Born Again Christians.

AND of course everybody that SAYS they're a "Christian" ain't one. SInce the Roman Catholic systerm LEADS AWAY from Biblical Christianity, what do you suppose the percentage of Born Again Christians there are in the Catholic religions???

Are YOU "Ignorant and "Unstable". do you or your "Church" DISTORT SCRIPTURE, DOes your system spread "Diverse" and "Strange" teachings (like "Limbo", Purgatorial Sanctification, Eating flesh and drinking BLOOD in your weekly gatherings, the Catholic "Mary thing", etc.

Oh.....I see what you are saying now. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide all of us into all Truth and there are men on this earth who are teaching/know the Truth but SOME Christians that hear that Truth are over-riding the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and rejecting that Truth!!! And just because a person SAYS they are a Christian...they really ain't one....ESPECIALLY anyone that is a Roman Catholic because the doctrines/dogmas/Truths of the Catholic Church leads people AWAY from "Biblical Christianity". I got it now.... :cool:

So, since you know that the Catholic Church leads people away from Biblical Christianity are there any other denominations that do the same thing?

When someone tells you they are Christian what criteria do you use to determine....as you said....they ain't one?

Also, do you know the percentage of Born again Christians that are now Catholics? ;)

Curious Mary

 

[Robert Gwin]

really?
What did Nathaniel and Andrew teach?

Are you suggesting they authored literature outside the Bible sir, or did you misread my response?

 

[Robert Gwin]

jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit

why water?

All Christians eventually get baptized in water sir, all who are born again were baptized in water before they were baptized by holy spirit. Water baptism is symbolic of death to your former course of life, and a rebirth of a new life living for Jehovah. A public demonstration of your faith and dedication to God.

 

[Happy Trails]

no proof

so Jn 3:5 which is true
Faith alone or baptism

and if we disagree how do we resolve it
Jn 8:32

Neither John 3:5, nor John 8:32 have ANYTHING to do with authority to read and interpret the Bible. You simply picked two random verses.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Completly and uttterly not logical, not true and not biblical.

There have been BILLIONS of Christians who have lived since the time of Christ and your theory suggest that every single one of them has the authoirty to PROPERLY interpret Scripture.....That is not logical.

No maam, I did not state that at all, I said you make the interpretation for yourself, since most will not receive salvation, then their interpretation obviously was wrong, but they were given the free will to choose. Revelation however is something different, God has always revealed His truths through the prophets while under law, through the first century governing body, only a handful served Jehovah during the period of apostasy, and when we entered into the last days the Christian faith is fed through the faithful and discreet slave that was assigned to shepherd the Congregation of God, however, they will be the first to tell you they are not inspired, and that they are subject to error like anyone else.

Although I hope you are correct in your census of Christians, I seriously doubt there have been billions, rather millions is more likely. Many people think that all who claim to be Christian are, yet that is far from the truth. Mat 7:13,14,21-23

 

[Ziggy]

Jhn 9:6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ever wonder how God "formed" the dust?

Hugs

 

[Marymog]

No maam, I did not state that at all, I said you make the interpretation for yourself, since most will not receive salvation, then their interpretation obviously was wrong, but they were given the free will to choose. Revelation however is something different, God has always revealed His truths through the prophets while under law, through the first century governing body, only a handful served Jehovah during the period of apostasy, and when we entered into the last days the Christian faith is fed through the faithful and discreet slave that was assigned to shepherd the Congregation of God, however, they will be the first to tell you they are not inspired, and that they are subject to error like anyone else.

Although I hope you are correct in your census of Christians, I seriously doubt there have been billions, rather millions is more likely. Many people think that all who claim to be Christian are, yet that is far from the truth. Mat 7:13,14,21-23

Hi Robert,

So I believe you are saying that we make the interpretation for ourselves. If that interpretation, used by free will, is obviously wrong then they will not receive salvation. HOWEVER, there have been some (prophets under the law) that thru God the Truth has been revealed to them! Interesting....I wonder how we KNOW which ones are prophets and which ones made the interpretation for themselves but were "obviously wrong"? Such a dilemma...IMO your theory suggest that we can never know the Truth of Scripture until we die and are standing in front of the pearly gates and it is then and only then that we will learn that our interpretation of Scripture was "obviously wrong" and we will not recieve eternal salvation. That is an interesting theory.....We don't know the Truth even though Scripture says And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. But your theory is that we will only know the truth AFTER we have died?

Ummmm.....currently there are over 2 billion people who call themselves Christian. And since Christianity started over 2,000 years ago one can probably add another 1 billion to that so I don't understand your "I seriously doubt there have been billions, rather millions is more likely" statement. Can you clarify?

Mary

 

[theefaith]

Are you suggesting they authored literature outside the Bible sir, or did you misread my response?

you said there is no teaching apart from the Bible

these are apostles
They are commanded to teach
Matt 28:19

is the word of God limited to scripture alone?

 

[theefaith]

All Christians eventually get baptized in water sir, all who are born again were baptized in water before they were baptized by holy spirit. Water baptism is symbolic of death to your former course of life, and a rebirth of a new life living for Jehovah. A public demonstration of your faith and dedication to God.

baptism is rendered meaningless!!

Faith alone apart from the sacraments
Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Marymog]

All Christians eventually get baptized in water sir, all who are born again were baptized in water before they were baptized by holy spirit. Water baptism is symbolic of death to your former course of life, and a rebirth of a new life living for Jehovah. A public demonstration of your faith and dedication to God.

Hmmmm....If getting baptized with water is only "symbolic" then why do it? How does symbol "wash away your sins" (Acts 22:16)? 1 Peter 3:21 says “baptism . . . now saves you.” How does a symbol save you Robert?

Curious Mary

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hi Robert,

So I believe you are saying that we make the interpretation for ourselves. If that interpretation, used by free will, is obviously wrong then they will not receive salvation. HOWEVER, there have been some (prophets under the law) that thru God the Truth has been revealed to them! Interesting....I wonder how we KNOW which ones are prophets and which ones made the interpretation for themselves but were "obviously wrong"? Such a dilemma...IMO your theory suggest that we can never know the Truth of Scripture until we die and are standing in front of the pearly gates and it is then and only then that we will learn that our interpretation of Scripture was "obviously wrong" and we will not recieve eternal salvation. That is an interesting theory.....We don't know the Truth even though Scripture says And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. But your theory is that we will only know the truth AFTER we have died?

Ummmm.....currently there are over 2 billion people who call themselves Christian. And since Christianity started over 2,000 years ago one can probably add another 1 billion to that so I don't understand your "I seriously doubt there have been billions, rather millions is more likely" statement. Can you clarify?

Mary

Hi Mary, the Bible identifies the faith beyond any doubt, and it is rather easy to see.

Just as you stated there are over 2 billion who claim to be Christian at this time, however most of those are not in the one faith as you likely recognize, but are distributed over thousands of sects teaching their own doctrine. Jesus said Christians would be recognized by their fruits, so after you personally determine which faith is God's people, then see the number of adherents of that faith maam.

Would you like to go through some passages that identify God's people?

 

[Robert Gwin]

you said there is no teaching apart from the Bible

these are apostles
They are commanded to teach
Matt 28:19

is the word of God limited to scripture alone?

No sir, I have not said that. God's inspired word is limited to Scripture alone. Explanations/revelations of God's word today comes through the assigned faithful slave. Mat 24:45-47