Go back and cook your grits.
Either Jesus was GOD, who CANNOT be tempted, -- or he was TEMPTED.
Yeah, keep repeating an illogical argument, and maybe it'll make sense, Mr. Tipton.
BibleScribe
Is Jesus God?
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Go back and cook your grits.
Either Jesus was GOD, who CANNOT be tempted, -- or he was TEMPTED.
Yeah, keep repeating an illogical argument, and maybe it'll make sense, Mr. Tipton.
BibleScribe
You are not listening.
The devil was unsuccessful in tempting Christ.
Christ could not be tempted by evil either.
James 1
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
or it could mean that Jesus is the one who delivered the messages, the thought and speech, of God.
and that is why Jesus shouldn't be worshiped.... God does not approve of us worshiping any other gods.
And all the spirits are gods... Satan is called a god, the angels are described as godlike ones.... so there are many gods... but only one that deserves our full devotion and worship. And that one is The Father.
The simple picture presented by the Scriptures of Jesus Christ:
Ridiculous error that has no logic or Bible basis at all!
No one here can make it fit into what is spoken of God. To force it one must break down all the meaning of language. And that is exactly what trinitarians have done.
Why should we try to make it fit?
The Trinity is not taught in the Bible at all !!
You can believe Jesus Christ personally existed and possessed all power and wisdom, before his scripturally recorded birth as a baby, then you must deny the actual "reality" of his birth and his "increasing in wisdom."
The Scriptures declare that God's understanding is infinite (Psa 147:5). Is it not then a denial of all the meaning of language to say that a co-equal constituent of this God "increased in wisdom," as he grew up from a babe to manhood?
To say that a constituent part of an omnipotent coequal Trinity of Gods became a helpless babe is an absurdity that the Scriptures do not require us to subscribe to. He could not be a helpless, newborn babe and an all-powerful, all-knowing co-equal ruler of heaven and earth at the same time.
Is God separable from His power and wisdom?
Are not infinite power and knowledge inseparable elements of His very Godhead?
I guess not!
Insight
- Jesus was born a babe (Luke 2:7).
- Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52).
- Jesus learned obedience by the things that he suffered (Heb. 5:8).
- Jesus was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin (Heb. 4:15).
- Jesus offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared" (Heb. 5:7).
Ridiculous error that has no logic or Bible basis at all!
No one here can make it fit into what is spoken of God. To force it one must break down all the meaning of language. And that is exactly what trinitarians have done.
Why should we try to make it fit?
The Trinity is not taught in the Bible at all !!
You can believe Jesus Christ personally existed and possessed all power and wisdom, before his scripturally recorded birth as a baby, then you must deny the actual "reality" of his birth and his "increasing in wisdom."
The Scriptures declare that God's understanding is infinite (Psa 147:5). Is it not then a denial of all the meaning of language to say that a co-equal constituent of this God "increased in wisdom," as he grew up from a babe to manhood?
To say that a constituent part of an omnipotent coequal Trinity of Gods became a helpless babe is an absurdity that the Scriptures do not require us to subscribe to. He could not be a helpless, newborn babe and an all-powerful, all-knowing co-equal ruler of heaven and earth at the same time.
Is God separable from His power and wisdom?
Are not infinite power and knowledge inseparable elements of His very Godhead?
I guess not!
Insight
If that is what was meant then the world λόγος - logos would not have been used. The word spock's man would be used instead. John 1:1 did not say that Jesus simply delivered the thought and speech of God.....Jesus is God in the flesh.
Speaking of NOT LISTENING you don't even hear YOURSELF!!!! You said "Christ could not be tempted by evil", but Scripture says that Jesus was tempted. So either you or Scripture is correct. And I doubt if it's you.
To All,
Such confusion on such a simple point of Jesus laying aside his GOD authority to become a lowly man. And subsequent to his humanity, when Jesus rose from the dead he regained his rightful place along side GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT.
BibleScribe
calbhach
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Here's something I posted on this in another thread; I feel like it needs to be said here, too. 
---------------------------------
Jesus and God are one and the same. Jesus tells us in His own words that He and the Father are One. Each version of the Bible that I’ve looked at agrees on this. They are one...God is Jesus and Jesus is God. They dwell within one another.
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
-----------------------------
Jesus and God are both EQUAL as well.
John 5:18 - This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
-----------------------------
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word is God, and the Word became flesh (Jesus), then Jesus IS the Word, which makes Him God. Just because the Word became flesh doesn’t mean that Jesus’ spirit changed.
-----------------------------
Jesus is stated as the true God and eternal life here:
1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
-----------------------------
And sure, Jesus died...but He ALSO rose from the dead after His death on the cross. Could any mere man do that? Not only did he rise from the dead, but he also saved us from our sins...again, no mere mortal man could do that.
John 19:28-30 - After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said ( to fulfill the Scripture), "I thirst." A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
-----------------------------
Thomas also calls Jesus “God”. As it has already been stated, if Jesus wasn’t God, then he would have told Thomas otherwise. After all, if he did NOT tell Thomas otherwise, that would make him a liar, and a sinner. Which we all know is impossible.
John 20:27-29 - Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
-----------------------------
God and Jesus are both stated as being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 22:12-13 - "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
-----------------------------
And no, God never dwelt in sin. Neither did Jesus.
2 Corinthians 5:21 - For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Jesus never did anything sinful. He “knew no sin”. And just because there was temptation in His life doesn’t mean that He sinned. Temptation is simply giving a choice - right or wrong. People might WANT to do one thing, but they CAN do the right thing instead. He was allowed to be tempted so that he would be able to help those who ARE tempted. (I think I should add on as well that when God "made Him to be sin" the Bible wasn't talking about making Jesus sinful; it was talking about giving Jesus the RESPONSIBILITY of taking the BURDEN of those sins. Jesus took the consequences of those sins on himself when He died on the cross.)
Hebrews 2:18 - For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
In Jesus’ time of temptation, rather than giving into Satan, he used scripture to make Satan turn and run.
Matthew 4:1-11 - Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread." But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'" Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'" Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.
He was tempted, but never sinned.
James 4:7 - Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
The fact of the matter is, none of us are truly ever able to grasp how it is that God and Jesus are one and the same.
Philippians 2:5-7 - Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
He was given a human form so that he could set an example for the HUMILITY that His people should have for the Father and for each other.
Philippians 2:8-11 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
-----------------------------------
Here's a breakdown of the Trinity:
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the Trinity. They are all of God.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(The Word and God are the same, yes?)
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(The Word became flesh; Jesus, right? So if the Word is God, and the Word became flesh, then Jesus is God)
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
(Jesus says himself that He and the Father are one)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(He is the way, the truth and the life, right?)
John 15:26 - “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
(And the Helper is the Holy Spirit (The Spirit of Truth). If Jesus is truth, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, then they are one and the same.)
Philippians 2:8-11 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Jesus’ human form what to show the people in what manner they should be humble and obedient)
Hebrews 2:18 - For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
(And he was tempted so that he could help those who are also tempted. This was why he was allowed to be tempted. After all, who are sinners more likely to listen to; someone's who's actually been there and felt the same kinds of temptations, or someone who's never been there?)
2 Corinthians 5:21 - For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
(He was made to be sin who KNEW NO SIN. He didn’t know sin, yet he was given the responsibility and the punishment for the sins of people who repented and believed in Him.)
Colossians 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
---------------------------------
Jesus and God are one and the same. Jesus tells us in His own words that He and the Father are One. Each version of the Bible that I’ve looked at agrees on this. They are one...God is Jesus and Jesus is God. They dwell within one another.
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
-----------------------------
Jesus and God are both EQUAL as well.
John 5:18 - This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
-----------------------------
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word is God, and the Word became flesh (Jesus), then Jesus IS the Word, which makes Him God. Just because the Word became flesh doesn’t mean that Jesus’ spirit changed.
-----------------------------
Jesus is stated as the true God and eternal life here:
1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
-----------------------------
And sure, Jesus died...but He ALSO rose from the dead after His death on the cross. Could any mere man do that? Not only did he rise from the dead, but he also saved us from our sins...again, no mere mortal man could do that.
John 19:28-30 - After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said ( to fulfill the Scripture), "I thirst." A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
-----------------------------
Thomas also calls Jesus “God”. As it has already been stated, if Jesus wasn’t God, then he would have told Thomas otherwise. After all, if he did NOT tell Thomas otherwise, that would make him a liar, and a sinner. Which we all know is impossible.
John 20:27-29 - Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
-----------------------------
God and Jesus are both stated as being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 22:12-13 - "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
-----------------------------
And no, God never dwelt in sin. Neither did Jesus.
2 Corinthians 5:21 - For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Jesus never did anything sinful. He “knew no sin”. And just because there was temptation in His life doesn’t mean that He sinned. Temptation is simply giving a choice - right or wrong. People might WANT to do one thing, but they CAN do the right thing instead. He was allowed to be tempted so that he would be able to help those who ARE tempted. (I think I should add on as well that when God "made Him to be sin" the Bible wasn't talking about making Jesus sinful; it was talking about giving Jesus the RESPONSIBILITY of taking the BURDEN of those sins. Jesus took the consequences of those sins on himself when He died on the cross.)
Hebrews 2:18 - For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
In Jesus’ time of temptation, rather than giving into Satan, he used scripture to make Satan turn and run.
Matthew 4:1-11 - Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread." But he answered, "It is written, "'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'" Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'" Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.
He was tempted, but never sinned.
James 4:7 - Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
The fact of the matter is, none of us are truly ever able to grasp how it is that God and Jesus are one and the same.
Philippians 2:5-7 - Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
He was given a human form so that he could set an example for the HUMILITY that His people should have for the Father and for each other.
Philippians 2:8-11 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
-----------------------------------
Here's a breakdown of the Trinity:
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are the Trinity. They are all of God.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(The Word and God are the same, yes?)
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(The Word became flesh; Jesus, right? So if the Word is God, and the Word became flesh, then Jesus is God)
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
(Jesus says himself that He and the Father are one)
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(He is the way, the truth and the life, right?)
John 15:26 - “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
(And the Helper is the Holy Spirit (The Spirit of Truth). If Jesus is truth, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, then they are one and the same.)
Philippians 2:8-11 - And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Jesus’ human form what to show the people in what manner they should be humble and obedient)
Hebrews 2:18 - For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
(And he was tempted so that he could help those who are also tempted. This was why he was allowed to be tempted. After all, who are sinners more likely to listen to; someone's who's actually been there and felt the same kinds of temptations, or someone who's never been there?)
2 Corinthians 5:21 - For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
(He was made to be sin who KNEW NO SIN. He didn’t know sin, yet he was given the responsibility and the punishment for the sins of people who repented and believed in Him.)
Colossians 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
Here's something I posted on this in another thread; I feel like it needs to be said here, too.
---------------------------------
...
Hi calbhach,
I have no problem whatsoever with your citations. However, I do have a problem with the doctrine where Jesus was GOD on earth, and James 1:13.
As such, either Jesus gave up his GOD authority and became a man, tempted in all things, -- or he was still GOD who cannot be tempted. So far the popular (but ill advised consensus) is that Jesus was GOD in the flesh, -- and so James 1:13 was apparently incorrect.
So I'll ask you directly, -- is James 1:13 wrong, and if not, then how do you reconcile your contradiction?
BibleScribe
calbhach
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There isn't any contradiction. It is God's Word. Everything within God's Word is truth. Jesus tells us himself that he and the Father are one, and that they are equal with one another.
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
John 5:18 - This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
As I said before, we cannot fully grasp how Jesus and God can be equal with one another -
Philippians 2:5-7 - Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
All we can truly do is believe that His Word is the absolute truth. God, Jesus and the Bible would not lie to us, but Satan would lead us to question His Word in ways such as this.
It is God's Word. Everything within God's Word is truth. Jesus tells us himself that he and the Father are one, and that they are equal with one another.John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
John 5:18 - This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
As I said before, we cannot fully grasp how Jesus and God can be equal with one another -
Philippians 2:5-7 - Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
All we can truly do is believe that His Word is the absolute truth.
God, Jesus and the Bible would not lie to us, but Satan would lead us to question His Word in ways such as this.There isn't any contradiction.
...
Hi calbhach,
There is a contradiction. If Jesus were fully GOD, and Scripture says GOD cannot be tempted, then Jesus could not be tempted. However, Jesus was tempted.
Therefore, either Jesus was not fully GOD, or he was not tempted.
Per the above, I would assert what Scripture says, in that HE laid aside his GOD authority to become a lowly man, exactly as you cite in Philippians 2:5-7. For Jesus said we can do ALL things which he did on earth, -- including walking on water (Peter did), or being transformed into light (Moses partially did), etc.
But the problem is, church doctrine claims (as evidenced in all the Posts) that Jesus was GOD on earth, fully manifesting his GOD power and authority. And if this is true, then he certainly couldn't have been tempted, -- as repeated cited.
BibleScribe
Despite the literal HUNDREDS of scriptural evidences supporting that Jesus is in fact God, you are stuck on the idea that God cannot be tempted. There is no contradiction in the Word, if their is, then we can accept that the entire version of scripture we base our faith on is null and should be cast aside.Hi calbhach,
There is a contradiction. If Jesus were fully GOD, and Scripture says GOD cannot be tempted, then Jesus could not be tempted. However, Jesus was tempted.
Therefore, either Jesus was not fully GOD, or he was not tempted.
Per the above, I would assert what Scripture says, in that HE laid aside his GOD authority to become a lowly man, exactly as you cite in Philippians 2:5-7. For Jesus said we can do ALL things which he did on earth, -- including walking on water (Peter did), or being transformed into light (Moses partially did), etc.
But the problem is, church doctrine claims (as evidenced in all the Posts) that Jesus was GOD on earth, fully manifesting his GOD power and authority. And if this is true, then he certainly couldn't have been tempted, -- as repeated cited.
BibleScribe
Again, only an anti christ would deny that Jesus is our all. We carry His name! CHRISTIANS
calbhach
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Here are many pieces of scripture which tell us God and Jesus are the same.
John 14:8-11 - Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
Colossians 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
Isaiah 9:6 - For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 20:28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Hebrews 1:8 - But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Titus 2:13 - Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
2 Peter 1:1 - Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
Galatians 3:19-20 - Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
John 14:8-11 - Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
Colossians 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
John 10:27-30 (ESV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."
Isaiah 9:6 - For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 20:28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Hebrews 1:8 - But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Titus 2:13 - Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
John 8:58 - Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
2 Peter 1:1 - Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
Galatians 3:19-20 - Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
I'm not the least bit confused, dismayed, or concerned that Jesus is GOD. That's simple. The only aspect which Scripture clarifies, is that he laid aside his GOD authority. Thus he became a man, subject to temptation, subject to fatigue, subject to hunger, and subject to death.
But most church doctrines teach that Jesus was fully GOD. And in this regard I bring the TRUTH of Scripture to refute this false doctrine.
BibleScribe
To All,
If a verse provides one facet of information, and another verse provides a second facet, shouldn't these two reflect an agreement as to the whole? It's no different that a design, which shows the plan view, side views, top view, bottom view, and as many cross sections as necessary to present all the information necessary to understand the configuration of the part. As such, when James 1:13 provides an aspect, this MUST be incorporated into the completeness of Christ.
Otherwise, either GOD made a mistake, -- or YOU ARE GOD.
BibleScribe
calbhach
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It still applies though. Jesus said that he and God were equal, while He was human. This implies that even in his humanity, he was still fully God. Jesus (as a human) had all of the attributes that God has. He never laid those aside. Please read this article; it shows how Jesus and God, even in Jesus' humanity, are still one and the same.
http://www.seekgod.org/bible/jesusisgod.html
Also, on Jesus' temptation, I'd like for you to read this -
http://www.jesus-explained.org/jesus-tempted.html
Jesus is God, but Jesus had to be tempted, for the good of the people he was giving his life for! Just like he had to die to save us all from our sins. God can't die any more than He can be tempted, yet Jesus was susceptible to both. Jesus was sinless, though. He was also immune to death, because he would be retuning to the Father. This was God's plan.
Can we really argue that Jesus himself claims to be God, even as a human, so it must be true, even if we can't understand it?
http://www.seekgod.org/bible/jesusisgod.html
Also, on Jesus' temptation, I'd like for you to read this -
http://www.jesus-explained.org/jesus-tempted.html
Jesus is God, but Jesus had to be tempted, for the good of the people he was giving his life for!
Just like he had to die to save us all from our sins. God can't die any more than He can be tempted, yet Jesus was susceptible to both. Jesus was sinless, though. He was also immune to death, because he would be retuning to the Father. This was God's plan. Can we really argue that Jesus himself claims to be God, even as a human, so it must be true, even if we can't understand it?
Philippians 2
[sup]5[/sup]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[sup]6[/sup]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[sup]7[/sup]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[sup]8[/sup]And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
[sup]9[/sup]Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[sup]10[/sup]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Thus he was GOD before being a man, -- he gave up that GOD authority as a man, -- and then took up that GOD authority.
But if I'm wrong, then certainly Jesus exercised his GOD power?
Matt. 2:13-15
[sup]13[/sup] When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.” [sup]14[/sup] So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, [sup]15[/sup] where he stayed until the death of Herod.
Matt. 2:22
[sup]22[/sup] But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, [sup]23[/sup] and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth.
Well, maybe Jesus was indisposed at the time. But certainly he exercised his infinite GOD knowledge?
Luke 2:40
[sup]40[/sup] And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.
Luke 2:52
[sup]52[/sup] And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.
... Or simply made money out of thin air?
Matt. 17:27
[sup]27[/sup] “But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”
Ok, well, maybe he didn't exercise any of these, but I'm quite confident he exercised some POWER which would not be available to a man*.
Or then again, maybe this GOD thing really has no power, because if it did then it certainly didn't work for Jesus. :blink:Calbhach, I'm really not trying to pull your chain, I'm simply proposing that Scripture is correct. Jesus was able to be tempted because he yielded his GOD authority to become a lowly man. Certainly he retained his heritage, but like any son of the company president, -- when you start in the mail room, you don't have a secretary.
* Please allow that he did forgive sins.
BibleScribe
Well sorry for my misunderstanding, for once, i am actually in agreement with you on somethingI'm not the least bit confused, dismayed, or concerned that Jesus is GOD. That's simple. The only aspect which Scripture clarifies, is that he laid aside his GOD authority. Thus he became a man, subject to temptation, subject to fatigue, subject to hunger, and subject to death.
But most church doctrines teach that Jesus was fully GOD. And in this regard I bring the TRUTH of Scripture to refute this false doctrine.
BibleScribe
To All,
If a verse provides one facet of information, and another verse provides a second facet, shouldn't these two reflect an agreement as to the whole? It's no different that a design, which shows the plan view, side views, top view, bottom view, and as many cross sections as necessary to present all the information necessary to understand the configuration of the part. As such, when James 1:13 provides an aspect, this MUST be incorporated into the completeness of Christ.
Otherwise, either GOD made a mistake, -- or YOU ARE GOD.
BibleScribe
see, we can get along after all. Of course He cast aside that part of His nature to become flesh, how else were His people to relate to Him? If the people that saw Him speak understood that He was God, there would have be no reason for His death on the cross. That is the very reason we have debates like this one here, so that we may discern the truth. One reason that I dislike using any form of text for communication, is often times we are unable to express EXACTLY what we are trying to say. I know that there are a few that are able to do this, but that isn't a gift that everyone has received.
Christ was not tempted by evil even though the devils tried.
You don't understand what you are reading.
God was not tempted by evil in this scripture, yet it says they tried.
Psalm 78
41 Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.
Slight correction Buzz for truth.
Red text added by Insight.
Jesus also taught that we and him are one as Jesus and God are one...does this make you God? John 17:22
Thought not.
God can be tested...but He himself not being flesh and blood cannot be tempted. Thats the whole point of James 1 its sins flesh which is tempted to evil.
It the Spirit can be tempted to do evil you are all in a lot of trouble!
There is a big difference between being tempted and succumbing TO temptation. Christ was indeed tempted. He did not succumb.
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