If OSAS is false, then what?

[quietthinker]

Sorry, no. ἄφες ("Aphiemi", to forgive) is in the Imperative mood, not the Indicative. That makes it either a command or a request. Since God is the addressee, I think it's safe to conclude it is a request.

I think you miss the point Lambano.
Jesus is glorifying God in the whole prayer right from the get go....

'My Father in Heaven, hallowed be your name'
His Father, where? in heaven ..... so that his hearers do not mistake it for Joseph
'hallowed be your name'.....ie, may your character be admired..
etc etc.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There's lots of warnings that we can fall into false teaching and unbelief. If OSAS was correct those would not be in the Bible.

Well lucky for those in christ

Eternal life is in the Bible

The claim we can never die, will live forever and will be risen is in the Bible

The fact that we are given the spirit as a pledge UNTIL Resurrection day is in the Bible

If you want to have faith in conditional life. Well then I can only ask why you lack faith in the promises of God?

 

[kcnalp]

Your a broken record. You think you continually repeating this same comment will draw attention and make people see it your way?

I would not say you can;t be unsaved, I can’t say you are saved period.

Of course, that's what OSASers do, judge others! Good luck on Judgment Day!

Matthew 7:2 (NKJV)
2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

 

[Renniks]

Well lucky for those in christ

Eternal life is in the Bible

The claim we can never die, will live forever and will be risen is in the Bible

The fact that we are given the spirit as a pledge UNTIL Resurrection day is in the Bible

If you want to have faith in conditional life. Well then I can only ask why you lack faith in the promises of God?

They are conditional promises. They are only for believers...not former believers.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Didn't you recently say that you weren't saved? You promote Calvinism, but then it doesn't apply to you. You had changed your "Christian" status to something else==now you are Christian again?

What always bothered me about you is your claimed that Calvinism was true, but you didn't accept it for you. So you don't believe what you push.

Also you say "once you are truly saved, God forgives you of all your sin, past, present, AND future." How very presumptuous.

Well, im still not saved, but i am of the christian faith. Then again, a portion of this forum isnt saved, yet no one calls them out. But thats water under the bridge at this point.
I am a calvinist, and i do accept it for myself. Matter of fact, calvinism is what reveals to me that im not saved.
And yes, OSAS means ALL your sins are forgiven, past, present AND future. Provided you are actually saved. You cant discuss OSAS without discussing the doctrine of election.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

How can you be either if you aren't saved?

According to the armenians doctrines, i am saved. Apparently sin dont mean a thing to yall. One of your cohorts even said “sin isnt the reason for a loss of salvation.” Yall got that easy believism thing going on.

 

[Lambano]

According to the armenians doctrines, i am saved. Apparently sin dont mean a thing to yall. One of your cohorts even said “sin isnt the reason for a loss of salvation.” Yall got that easy believism thing going on.

Hold on a minute. The reason I said sin isn’t the reason you can lose your salvation is because Reformation Arminianism also believes that all our sins, past, present, and future are covered by the blood of Jesus. Arminianism and Calvinism are more closely related than you realize because they both derive from the Reformation. Both of us are saying that sin doesn’t matter because it’s forgiven.

And before you say that you’d be considered saved according to Arminian doctrine - If justification is by faith, if salvation is by grace through faith, faith in whom? Do you trust Christ to save you? Do you trust that Christ died for YOUR sins?

You realize that I consider you worth saving, right?

 

[Grailhunter]

I would like to point out that I would say that most people on this form do not no know the doctrines of Armenism. And thus do not subscribe to those beliefs. Of course the beliefs on the forum vary but I would say that very few intentionally align their beliefs with Armenism. Usually when a Calvinist refers to people as Armenians he trying to be rude.

Once Saved Always Saved is not a common belief among the devout. It is more of a modern new age belief, but it was always a belief with in Calvinism. One of the false beliefs of Calvinists called Perseverance of saints.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

if OSAS isnt true, then what is true? I’ve never gotten an honest answer from those on this forum as to this question. And my main thoughts on this are, 1. If OSAS isnt true, then what is the requirement to get to Heaven? 2. Since sin no longer matters, are we free to just live however we want?

If OSAS is true, then what of the warnings against falling away???

Since salvation is by FAITH, and FAITH springs from a living relationship with GOD - what happens when that relationship grows cold through our neglect / becoming pre-occupied with other things / perhaps even falling into SIN. One's "Living FAITH" degenerates into the fading memory of having HAD a living FAITH - once. One is expected to "take HIS YOKE upon them, and LEARN OF HIM". It's my experience (having been down that road) that God DOES send "Wake-Up calls" as we fall away. They can be pretty brutal. but they got my attention before it was too late -

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hold on a minute. The reason I said sin isn’t the reason you can lose your salvation is because Reformation Arminianism also believes that all our sins, past, present, and future are covered by the blood of Jesus. Arminianism and Calvinism are more closely related than you realize because they both derive from the Reformation. Both of us are saying that sin doesn’t matter because it’s forgiven.

And before you say that you’d be considered saved according to Arminian doctrine - If justification is by faith, if salvation is by grace through faith, faith in whom? Do you trust Christ to save you? Do you trust that Christ died for YOUR sins?

You realize that I consider you worth saving, right?

dude!! I didnt even have to mention your name.
But no, if that was your meaning, my apologies. I dont know armenianism that well and I wasnt taking a shot at you. It was just how i perceived your post, i’ll admit, when i first read that post i was like whatttt?????
And no, grailhunter, i wasnt trying to be rude. I knew he was armenianist.

as far as being saved, i never have doubted Christ will save His elect. What i doubt is if i’m one of the elect. As far as me being worth saving, im not sure why He would want me around up there. If i aint no good now, i doubt i’ll be worth much more up there.

 

[kcnalp]

No doubt, LOTS of OSASers will follow Satan to Hell fire!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

If OSAS is true, then what of the warnings against falling away???

Since salvation is by FAITH, and FAITH springs from a living relationship with GOD - what happens when that relationship grows cold through our neglect / becoming pre-occupied with other things / perhaps even falling into SIN. One's "Living FAITH" degenerates into the fading memory of having HAD a living FAITH - once. One is expected to "take HIS YOKE upon them, and LEARN OF HIM". It's my experience (having been down that road) that God DOES send "Wake-Up calls" as we fall away. They can be pretty brutal. but they got my attention before it was too late -

you think That if you ever were to fall away, that God didnt know that already? This is part of the reason we say if you do fall away, you were never saved to begin with. John said they went out from us, because they were not of us, meaning never were saved.

 

[kcnalp]

you think That if you ever were to fall away, that God didnt know that already? This is part of the reason we say if you do fall away, you were never saved to begin with. John said they went out from us, because they were not of us, meaning never were saved.

Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

ZERO OSAS in the NT!

 

[Lambano]

dude!! I didnt even have to mention your name.
But no, if that was your meaning, my apologies. I dont know armenianism that well and I wasnt taking a shot at you. It was just how i perceived your post, i’ll admit, when i first read that post i was like whatttt?????

Not a problem. I know your not familiar with the doctrine, and I wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

Besides, it’s usually the OSAS types who get accused of taking sin lightly because they understand that their sins are forgiven. That took ME by surprise.

 

[Enoch111]

If OSAS is true, then what of the warnings against falling away???

Why are posters so obsessed with "falling away"? While the warnings are there, the reality is that apostates (those who fall away) were never saved to begin with. Remember the Parable of the Sower? All soils are not the same, and all hearts are not the same.

 

[Lambano]

as far as being saved, i never have doubted Christ will save His elect.

Okay, bro, please listen; this is important.

You believe a doctrine about Jesus Christ.

The Christian faith is about trusting Jesus Christ the person.

I'm asking you to trust this person.

Can you do that?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Okay, bro, please listen; this is important.

You believe a doctrine about Jesus Christ.

The Christian faith is about trusting Jesus Christ the person.

I'm asking you to trust this person.

Can you do that?

absolutely. Theres never been any doubt about Jesus being true to His word. But the doctrine IS His word. And that trust extends along 2 paths, that He will save His elect, and not save the un-elect. I have no doubt of that whatsoever.

 

[Lambano]

absolutely. Theres never been any doubt about Jesus being true to His word. But the doctrine IS His word. And that trust extends along 2 paths, that He will save His elect, and not save the un-elect. I have no doubt of that whatsoever.

Nope, not it.

I'm asking you to trust Jesus to save YOU. Not the elect or the un-elect, whoever that might be. YOU.

That's what this is all about.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Nope, not it.

I'm asking you to trust Jesus to save YOU. Not the elect or the un-elect, whoever that might be. YOU.

That's what this is all about.

I dont know how to answer this. I suppose i could say yes, but i wouldnt believe it. Theres no way i can have any hope till i get clean. I asked a preacher, baptist, last year if i had to get my act together first before getting saved, he said no. I just cannot accept that God would save me while willingly sinning like i do.
Now, if i didnt actively plan my sinning, had my act together, and was living a good fruit showing life, then yea. I’d have all the confidence in the world. Thats always been the case though. Heres what i trust, i sin more than half this board combined on a given day, i dont feel bad about most of the sins i commit daily. I dont want a false assurance. I dont wanna think im saved, then get to Heaven and find out im not saved. I just want God to fix me, and i keep asking, and nothing. Now you tell me… does that sound like im of the elect? It sure dont to me.

 

[n2thelight]

For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH, but HAS ETERNAL LIFE.. - No if attached.

when it comes to the gospel. There are no ifs because we can not meet any requirements which would allow God to pass over our sin.

If in and of itself is in the verse , as you have a qualifier ,that is to believe .

And no we can't meet the requirement ,which is why we repent .