Let's discuss..cessation after death?

[Lambano]

Would you say that Elohim is "unjust" for letting sinners go to Hell?

Stay on topic; that's not what we're disagreeing about. The topic is whether the life of the unsaved will eventually cease.

I'll let you decide if torturing your unbelieving friends, relatives, co-workers, neighbors, et.al. forever and ever and ever is "good". If I ever get to that point, I don't think I'd have a soul left to save.

 

[Helen]

Many are uncomfortable with the topic re Hell and everlasting damnation.
Is total annihilation biblical?


Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


1) "And In hell he lift up his eyes," (kai en to hade eparas tous ophthalmous autou) "And in the hades (place of torments, called hell) he lifted up his eyes," the holding place (abode) of the souls of the responsible unbelievers after death. It is a place of conscious torments, Luk_13:28; Rev_14:10-11.

2) "Being in torments," (huparchon en basanois) "Being or existing in torments," in mental, emotional, and spiritual state and place (location) of torments, with every sense-faculty of body and spirit that he had while living, to see, hear, taste, feel and to think, His final damnation was yet future, Rev_20:11; Rev_20:15.
Garner

There are scripture verses that do seem to imply cessation and there are others verses that don't

let us search the scriptures alone and not commentaries.

I’m 80 now. “Feeling uncomfortable” has nothing to do with it…

all I can say is…in my 60 years walking with the Lord , I have seen many more come to Christ when told about heaven awaits ,and the power of His blood… than being told “Hell awaits” ….which by the way is not the Gospel…the Gospel means GOOD NEWS .

 

[dev553344]

I’m 80 now. “Feeling uncomfortable” has nothing to do with it…

all I can say is…in my 60 years walking with the Lord , I have seen many more come to Christ when told about heaven awaits ,and the power of His blood… than being told “Hell awaits” ….which by the way is not the Gospel…the Gospel means GOOD NEWS .

Fear of hell is what turned me to the Lord. I felt I was going to go to hell for living a selfish life. And when I turned to the Lord I felt his love, joy and peace when I did his works as described in the bible and taught to me by my church. And that's what keeps me coming back, is the Love, Peace and Joy of the Lord. Having known spiritual emptiness and destitute living, I am well aware that the Lord has something much better for us that believe in Him. The Gospel of Jesus the Christ and God the Father and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Johann]

This says those that believeth are going to live forever, which means that those who do not , will not.

The antithesis would be..those who do not will "live" eternally in the wrong destination.
Blessings
J.

 

[GEN2REV]

At least you are open and transparent.

Scriptures is very clear on this very "controversial" subject.

Can the Spirit, or Soul, Be Destroyed?

Blessings
J.

Personally, I haven't found the Blue Letter Bible interpretations/explanations of Scripture to be totally legit.

Jesus is very adamant in John 6 that without ingesting Him spiritually, we have no spiritual life in us.
John 6:53
In verse 54, He tells us that it is this 'life' in us that allows us, enables us, to be raised up by Him. Those without it will not be resurrected.
John 6:54
Verse 58, Jesus tells us it is only those who have this life that will live forever.
John 6:58

Jesus' words.

Simon Peter even comments that Jesus is the only source of this life, making clear that without it, nobody has eternal life.
John 6:68

We certainly can't overlook these crucial passages of Scripture.

 

[GEN2REV]

So it's perfectly Ok to look at certain crucial passages while ignoring the others?
Interesting.
Blessings
J.

Blue Letter Bible is ignoring the verses that Jesus spoke.

Ask them.

 

[GEN2REV]

So it's perfectly Ok to look at certain crucial passages while ignoring the others?
Interesting.
Blessings
J.

Funny how you say "Let's discuss.." but when somebody offers a conflicting example to your apparent opinion, you get upset and personal.

You sure discussed those verses I presented, didn't you?

 

[Cassandra]

The antithesis would be..those who do not will "live" eternally in the wrong destination.
Blessings
J.

It does not say they will live in another place. It says that the gift to those who believe is eternal life. Those who do not believe will not receive it. the bible speaks of a second death, not a second dying.

 

[GEN2REV]

The Scripture references are spot on..I mean, we can cite scriptures: Where the worm dieth not...everlasting burning's and just "reason" these away since God is all love?
I mean, I didn't even KNOW about the Blue Letter Bible until Jason pointed that out...no commentaries, just Scripture and Strong's concordance plus old Webster 19..voetsek...
There is a vehement reaction to this topic and the pneumatoi are "irritated"
This should be part of preaching the good news, Christ preached it so why can't I?
Blessings
J.

I don't even know what you're going on about.

Are you on something? Little too much caffeine, or something, maybe?

My posts here don't at all evoke the kind of response you're coming with.

You've been here less than a month and how many threads have you posted? 50?

Kind of shows a lack of sincerity. Wouldn't you say?

Is your heart convicted about the topic of this thread right now, or the other 49 you currently have running?

 

[Taken]

Would you say that Elohim is "unjust" for letting sinners go to Hell?

No.
God is Just.
Everyone shall NOT HAVE what they DID NOT Choose.

 

[Johann]

Funny how you say "Let's discuss.." but when somebody offers a conflicting example to your apparent opinion, you get upset and personal

You are not the first to get too personal with me and we should be like the Bereans... These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now I said we must not use commentaries but I find this one hitting the "ignore button"


With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias). Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2.

In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.
Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas).

Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves.

In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.
Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.”

The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021).

The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).
Blessings
J.

 

[GEN2REV]

You are not the first to get too personal with me and we should be like the Bereans... These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Now I said we must not use commentaries but I find this one hitting the "ignore button"


With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias). Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2.

In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.
Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas).

Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves.

In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.
Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.”

The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021).

The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).
Blessings
J.

Whatever.

Go easy on the caffeine, maybe.

 

[Johann]

Is your heart convicted about the topic of this thread right now, or the other 49 you have currently running?

The "ignore button" is right on your left side, scriptures are very clear on this topic, you don't need a commentary or a dictionary to see it at face value, ...
Ἀγαπητοί, μὴ παντὶ πνεύματι πιστεύετε, ἀλλὰ δοκιμάζετε τὰ πνεύματα εἰ ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐστιν, ὅτι πολλοὶ ψευδοπροφῆται ἐξεληλύθασιν εἰς τὸν κόσμον.
Blessings
First, you read around the Scriptures, then selective Scriptures, then attacking Blue Letter Bible and now you are into my character.
Nice goin'

 

[Johann]

Go easy on the caffeine, maybe.

Don't drink caffeine, quinoa is my staple diet and still gym on a regular basis
J.

 

[Lambano]

Instead of climbing into my character can you please ask God to rewrite His word?

It is not necessary to rewrite it. I have correctly interpreted and applied Matthew 10:28, Luke 16:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, and Revelation 20:10-15 to the topic.

I stand by my exegesis.

[Epilogue] I am not climbing all over your character. It is fair game to point out the logical consequences of another's position.

 

[ScottA]

The definition of "forever" or "everlasting" does leave room for both interpretations.

I would put it this way:

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10
​

Thus, the result of everlasting torment for those who do not have everlasting life in Christ in God, is in the weeping and gnashing of teeth and the finality of what has come upon them in the Judgement. And they pass away forever as the dust.

 

[Johann]

the bible speaks of a second death, not a second dying.

the bible speaks of a second death, not a second dying.

Rev_2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Cassandra]

Yes. It says death.
The wages of sin is dying? Nope. Death.

 

[Johann]

The wages of sin is dying?

Who said anything about dying?

 

[GEN2REV]

Let's have a heated personal argument...cessation after death?