We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith, not works (Romans 4:2-6) and we are justified (shown to be righteous) by works. (James 2:18, 21, 24) You need to remember that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) *This remains your achilles heel and also exposes you as teaching salvation by works* which explains a lot!
Nowhere did I say that works is for initial salvation of which you imply by your words, I quote:
“…to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works -James 2:14-18),
and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God.”
Quote by: mailmandan.
I believe there are two aspects of salvation taught in the Bible.
Aspect of Salvation #1.
We are initially saved by God’s grace without works through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9).
(This is when we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and we throw ourselves down upon His mercy and forgiveness and we believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Aspect of Salvation #2.
We enter the Sanctification Process of the Hoy Spirit. For 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Sanctification of the Spirit involves putting away sin, doing good works, keeping oneself unspotted from this world, etcetera. In other words, one is living holy by the power of God working in them.
But yes. Sanctification is a part of the faith just as being saved by God’s grace is a part of the faith. You whole New Testament is a part of the faith. So if God tells you to live holy in His Word, that’s a part of the faith. Faith is like a two sided coin. It starts off as a belief alone, but it does not remain that way. Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism is false. Temporal Belief Alone Salvation is true because it exists in our Initial Salvation. For our faith or belief in being saved by God’s grace (without works) is followed by the Sanctification Process which does involve works, living holy, etcetera by the power of the Holy Spirit.
You said:
I already thoroughly explained this to you and 'faith alone' here is referring to an
empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains 'alone' - barren of works (James 2:14) and not authentic faith. Genuine believers understand this. I already thoroughly explained this to you in post #1133.
Once again you demonstrate that you don't have ears to hear which explains a lot! As I already explained to you in post #1133, in
James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in
Genesis 15:6,
many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it
showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was
shown to be righteous. That is what he is plainly saying and you don't like it because
you teach salvation by works.
Again, you are unable to see this. If works are required to show or authenticate a true faith that saves, even if the works themselves did not save in of themselves alone, the works would be a requirement for salvation because you would need to have them in order to authenticate a genuine faith that saves. So even in your model you have described, it means you believe that works do save. If no works save of any kind then no works should be required to authenticate a genuine faith that saves.
Anyways, I believe that works is a way of showing a person’s faith according to James. Paul calls this the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11).
The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:
Faithful:
(adjective):
1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.
Source:
Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com
This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.”
Philippians 2:17 talks about “the service of your faith.” Service is a form of work. So our faith will have service or work attached. So there is no faith that is alone or remains as a belief alone. True faith will have it's service.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 says, “And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” This is suggesting that faith is not a belief alone whereby we can live wickedly. For it says that we may be delivered from wicked men for (because) all men have not faith. So the opposite of wickedness is holiness. So this verse is implying indirectly that our good and moral conduct is tied to the faith.
1 Timothy 5:8 says, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” An infidel is an unbeliever. If faith is exclusively a belief alone then how can a person deny the faith by their misconduct?
You said:
We are not justified (accounted as righteous) by works at all (Romans 4:2-6) but we are justified (shown to be righteous) by works (James 2:18, 21, 24)
This is what I call splitting hairs. James plainly says you are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). You want to be justified by faith alone but the Bible does not say that. You change the meaning of what James meant on justification because he said that he will show you his faith by his works. This merely demonstrates the symbiotic nature between faith and works. Eventually in time, one will not exist without the other. James says faith without works is dead. Meaning, you cannot be saved by a dead faith (or a faith that does not eventually produce works). So works of faith is a salvation issue unless you believe you can be saved by a dead faith (without eventual works). By what you stated so far, you believe a genuine faith has works to authenticate a saving faith. Therefore works is a part of the salvation equation.
You said:
Yet according to you, we are initially saved by grace through faith, not works, but ultimately we are saved by works. That is 'type 2 works salvation' in a nutshell.
We are INITIALLY and FOUNDATIONALLY saved by God’s grace through faith.
How? Well, not only are you saved by God’s grace and mercy when you first come to the Lord Jesus as the Savior, and believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but you are saved foundationally by His grace without works, too. For if a believer happens to stumble unintentionally into sin on rare occasion, they confess of their sin to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1). This is all God’s mercy and grace without works saving us if we mess up on rare occasion. We don’t go out and do a good work to redeem a sin we may have committed on rare occasion. So God’s grace. It’s initial and foundational. Without it, no person could ever do good works because their past life of sin would condemn them.
You said:
Now you sound like the workers in the vineyard who worked all day for a denarius and grumbled against workers who were hired later and worked for only one hour yet also received a denarius and were made equal to them. (Matthew 20:8–12) You seem to think that you deserve salvation based on hard work.
I don’t think that parable applies to your point involving me. I believe there are saints who will accept Jesus as their Savior on their deathbed without doing any works. I believe the thief of the cross was saved without works. Babies who die in this life are also saved by Christ’s sacrifice even without faith or works. God’s grace knows no bounds (in line with His goodness). But God’s grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).