Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[Grailhunter]

That's not what sola scriptura means.

Did I say sola scriptura?

 

[MatthewG]

Be not conformed to this world.

Except it was not cultural. He appealed to Eve being the one that was deceived. It's about women in general, not just 1st Century women.

What the Bible says.

Hello reformed1689,

In response my brother is this: Anything you read in the Bible not everything is inspired. If the spirit is not guiding, all you are doing is putting demands on others, and it doesn't give room for freedom for thought and thinking in asking God, and by being lead by the spirit.

If you are using the scripture to justify your position that WOMEN NOT SHOULD SPEAK IN CHURCH or MEN HAVE THE COMPLETE AND TOTAL AUTHORITY OVER WOMEN, good luck in having people come to your church or whatever but then again you may find minds that agree with you, and they will flock up into it. (I do not care either way, as you yourself understand that you are responsible alone to God alone when you die).

God is the authority - by his Holy Spirit in individuals lives who seek him out in faith.

I do understand your position though, it doesn't work here with me and you are free to believe what you are lead to believe.

May the Holy Spirit guide you in your life!

Love you!

 

[Bob Estey]

I don't think ANYONE is arguing that. Especially since they didn't have church buildings when Paul was writing.

Paul said, "The women should keep silence in churches." 1 Corinthians 14:34

I disagree. It's hard for women to keep silent when conducting ministries locally and all over the world, raising money for worthy causes through hunger walks, bake sales, rummage sales, and the like, cooking dinner for us at church suppers, and many, many, other things.

 

[Bob Estey]

You think it is ok for a woman to preach in a church? Paul's writings are either scripture or they are not. Which is it?

Paul didn't just say women shouldn't preach in churches. Paul said,

[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Corinthians 14:33-36 RSV

As far as Paul's writings being scripture, how do you define "scripture"?

 

[Pierac]

I believe Peter and Paul believed this. At some point one might ask, "Did Peter and Paul always write down exactly what God told them to write down?"

Peter and Paul believed a lot of things... Yet you do not keep talking about how Paul believed it was just and true to hunted down Christians and killed them... Yet he did believe it was just at one time!!! Bet you don't think he believed that way now! Of course not... What else could he no longer believe???

Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Did Paul write down exactly what God told him to write down in Gal 3:27? The Bible does not Lie right ?

Remember... It was a Female whom first saw and spoke to the risen Lord

Jesus speaks through His Body... His Body is not just made up of men!!!

Paul

 

[reformed1689]

Paul didn't just say women shouldn't preach in churches. Paul said,

[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Corinthians 14:33-36 RSV

As far as Paul's writings being scripture, how do you define "scripture"?

The Word of God is Scripture. Are Paul's writings Scripture, yes or no? And yes, Paul did say women can't preach in church as that would require speaking.

If you do not see Paul's writings as Scripture based on that definition, why do you see other writings as Scripture?

 

[reformed1689]

Paul said, "The women should keep silence in churches." 1 Corinthians 14:34

I disagree. It's hard for women to keep silent when conducting ministries locally and all over the world, raising money for worthy causes through hunger walks, bake sales, rummage sales, and the like, cooking dinner for us at church suppers, and many, many, other things.

Yeah you are misapplying the Scripture there. It does not say women cannot do ministry.

 

[reformed1689]

I do understand your position though, it doesn't work here with me and you are free to believe what you are lead to believe.

It's not about what "works for you" that's ridiculous. That's humanist. It's about what God has actually said.

 

[reformed1689]

Did I say sola scriptura?

You said Bible Alone. Do you know what Sola Scriptura means? If you are going to argue against a position at least know what you are arguing against.

 

[Grailhunter]

You said Bible Alone. Do you know what Sola Scriptura means? If you are going to argue against a position at least know what you are arguing against.

Am I to assume you know?
Sola scriptura.....scripture alone
Bible only---scripture only is more or less synonymous.
So I am not sure what you are getting at.....personal belief?

 

[reformed1689]

Am I to assume you know?
Sola scriptura.....scripture alone
Bible only---scripture only is more or less synonymous.
So I am not sure what you are getting at.....personal belief?

Scripture alone doesn't mean you ignore the historical context, the audience context, etc.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Word of God is Scripture. Are Paul's writings Scripture, yes or no? And yes, Paul did say women can't preach in church as that would require speaking.

If you do not see Paul's writings as Scripture based on that definition, why do you see other writings as Scripture?

Like I said, God has taught us many things since the biblical era.
Paul, said that women should not preach, or have authority over men, the head of the woman is the man, and they should not talk in church.
He also said that, Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1st Timothy 2:15 They are saved differently then men?

It is hard for property to be taken seriously in anything. And women were considered property in this era. Since the biblical era God had taught us many things....some of them are corrections. Like Christianity is not going to support slavery....Christianity is going to support weddings. Marriage in not a concession to avoid sin.

Oh, and the world is not flat and stars do not fall to earth.

 

[Grailhunter]

Scripture alone doesn't mean you ignore the historical context, the audience context, etc.

I did not say that all people ignore the historical context.....but the words alone and only do have a meaning.

 

[reformed1689]

Like I said, God has taught us many things since the biblical era.
Paul, said that women should not preach, or have authority over men, the head of the woman is the man, and they should not talk in church.
He also said that, Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1st Timothy 2:15 They are saved differently then men?

It is hard for property to be taken seriously in anything. And women were considered property in this era. Since the biblical era God had taught us many things....some of them are corrections. Like Christianity is not going to support slavery....Christianity is going to support weddings. Marriage in not a concession to avoid sin.

Oh, and the world is not flat and stars do not fall to earth.

You are way off base here. 1 Tim 2:15 is not talking about eternal salvation. I can't even take your post seriously.

 

[reformed1689]

but the words alone and only do have a meaning.

WITHIN THEIR CONTEXT. Stop with the strawman.

 

[Grailhunter]

You are way off base here. 1 Tim 2:15 is not talking about eternal salvation.

Can you read? It says what it says....with no other deliberation.

 

[Grailhunter]

WITHIN THEIR CONTEXT. Stop with the strawman.

Do you know what the words alone and only mean?

 

[reformed1689]

Can you read? It says what it says....with no other deliberation.

Do you honestly believe the word "saved" is always meaning eternal salvation? What an idiotic position.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you honestly believe the word "saved" is always meaning eternal salvation? What an idiotic position.

Saved physically would be an idiotic position to take with this scripture.
Childbearing in this era was a rather dangerous event.
This scripture is mentioning moral conduct.

 

[MatthewG]

It's not about what "works for you" that's ridiculous. That's humanist. It's about what God has actually said.

Depending on what a writer says it can be either, from Himself, or God. So there is a thing to be cautious about. I do not have time to argue back and forth with another person as no one grows from the situations.

God bless you!