Timing of the abomination of desolation

[Davy]

The counterfeits of preterism and futurism were spawned in the heresy of the apostasized papacy, by Jesuits, not Judaizers. Evidently you don't know the difference.

You haven't told us how you'll reverse the fulfillments of the Judean Christians' flight.

Those 'isms' you mention are FROM Judaizer types that crept into Christ's Church! Who do you think that is pushing all the false doctrines in the seminaries today, AND with the later Bible revisions designed to confuse!?!

The Jews fled Jerusalem more than one time in its history. Jerusalem has been sieged something like 27 times in its history. So you TRYING to use the fleeing from the Romans in 70 A.D. just does not work with disproving Christ's Olivet discourse being about SIGNS FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD.

And the fact that YOU DENY what Jesus said about the generation that SEES ALL THESE THINGS, meaning ALL the Signs He gave for the end, shows YOU DENY His Word!

You only prove that you're just one of the ignorants that the false Jew-Judaizers count on existing that will heed their false doctrines because of being too lazy to check them out in God's written Word.

 

[Davy]

Provide a quote, source, date, and name of any recognized pre-19th century historical Christian source who/which denies that the temple was completely leveled, in complete fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24:2.

What does the 2nd temple in Jerusalem being destroyed have to do with proving Christ's prophecy of not one stone standing atop another, since TODAY THERE STILL ARE HUGE STONES AT THE WESTERN WALL OF THE OLD TEMPLE MOUNT COMPLEX?

You're vain attempt to strain at a gnat, JUST LIKE THE OLD PHARISEES, cannot HIDE those huge stones...

Wailing Wall

• Davy
• May 9, 2022

 

[covenantee]

What does the 2nd temple in Jerusalem being destroyed have to do with proving Christ's prophecy of not one stone standing atop another, since TODAY THERE STILL ARE HUGE STONES AT THE WESTERN WALL OF THE OLD TEMPLE MOUNT COMPLEX?

You're vain attempt to strain at a gnat, JUST LIKE THE OLD PHARISEES, cannot HIDE those huge stones...

Wailing Wall

• Davy
• May 9, 2022

The retaining wall and any of its stones are irrelevant, since it was separate and apart from the temple.

You've choked on a camel.

 

[covenantee]

Those 'isms' you mention are FROM Judaizer types that crept into Christ's Church! Who do you think that is pushing all the false doctrines in the seminaries today, AND with the later Bible revisions designed to confuse!?!

The Jews fled Jerusalem more than one time in its history. Jerusalem has been sieged something like 27 times in its history. So you TRYING to use the fleeing from the Romans in 70 A.D. just does not work with disproving Christ's Olivet discourse being about SIGNS FOR THE VERY END OF THIS WORLD.

And the fact that YOU DENY what Jesus said about the generation that SEES ALL THESE THINGS, meaning ALL the Signs He gave for the end, shows YOU DENY His Word!

You only prove that you're just one of the ignorants that the false Jew-Judaizers count on existing that will heed their false doctrines because of being too lazy to check them out in God's written Word.

Risible futurist nonsense.

You still haven't told us how you'll reverse the fulfillments of the Judean Christians' flight.

 

[Truth7t7]

Point is, there are STILL TODAY huge stones atop of one another at the temple mount. Debate over.

We don't agree much, but your 100% correct, and they're big stones upon one another

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You overlooked the disciples' very first question:

Matthew 24:3
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

"These things" is not referring to the second coming, but to the temple and its destruction in verses 1 and 2.

Right. He was asked two different questions. One related to the destruction of the temple buildings and one related to His coming and the end of the age which has not yet occurred. It just doesn't work when people think that either the entire Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by 70 AD or that all of the OD will be fulfilled in the future.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Disagree with your 70AD preterist interpretation of Matthew Chapter 24, the events described are future unfulfilled

The 70AD destruction of the temple played absolutely no part in fulfillment of Matthew 24, none

Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, not a 70AD literal destruction as you suggest

The temple was the Lord's body, as the pharisees looked at a literal temple, just as you "Wrong"

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Why can't He have been speaking partly of the destruction of the temple buildings in the Olivet Discourse and partly of His future coming at the end of the age? He was asked about both of those things, so it makes sense that He would have talked about both of those things. There's no reason to think both had to be fulfilled at the same time, as preterists believe, but there's also no reason to think He didn't answer the question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus was not saying that he could come any time during the time of his generation. He was only saying that events like the 2nd Coming and the fall of Jerusalem happen suddenly, making it necessary that they continue to live godly lives all the time.

Randy it doesn't state what you claim, the scripture clearly shows its a future generation that will see the second coming, simple, clear, easy to understand

Why do you continue to fight against a basic truth, to keep the false teaching of 70AD fulfillment alive, going so far as denying a literal, visible, second coming is seen in Matthew 24:30

"It will be a future generation" that will be eyewitness of the signs that precede the future second coming

1.) What is near even at the doors, the future second coming of Jesus Christ

2.) What is the day and hour no man knows, the future second coming of Jesus Christ...

Matthew 24:33-36KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Randy you deny a literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ is seen below, and you claim the verse below represents a judgment upon Israel "Really"

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[ewq1938]

That was my point. When Israel became so rebellious against Rome that Rome sent a 2nd army to Jerusalem, Jesus showed up in the form of his word of judgment.

No, he didn't. Jesus never said he would come in any sense when the temple was destroyed. He didn't need to.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why can't He have been speaking partly of the destruction of the temple buildings in the Olivet Discourse and partly of His future coming at the end of the age? He was asked about both of those things, so it makes sense that He would have talked about both of those things. There's no reason to think both had to be fulfilled at the same time, as preterists believe, but there's also no reason to think He didn't answer the question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed.

It's my opinion the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed at the death of Jesus Christ, the veil in the temple was torn, and the temple was "Destroyed" symbolically

I don't see a dual fulfillment, 70AD played no part in fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24, my opinion

Matthew 24:2KJV
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 27:50-51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

 

[ewq1938]

The debate is over because you're unreasonable. Jesus said the stones of the temple would be disassembled

No, that is not what he said. He said this:

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Another use of "all these". Both here and in verse 33 you don't adhere to "all these" but limit it down. Not one thing but all the building of the temple complex which includes any walls.

 

[ewq1938]

Why can't He have been speaking partly of the destruction of the temple buildings in the Olivet Discourse and partly of His future coming at the end of the age? He was asked about both of those things, so it makes sense that He would have talked about both of those things. There's no reason to think both had to be fulfilled at the same time, as preterists believe, but there's also no reason to think He didn't answer the question about when the temple buildings would be destroyed.

He didn't answer that. Go ahead and quote him saying when it would happen.

 

[ewq1938]

It's my opinion the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed at the death of Jesus Christ, the veil in the temple was torn, and the temple was "Destroyed" symbolically

That makes the whole no stone upon another meaningless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's my opinion the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed at the death of Jesus Christ, the veil in the temple was torn, and the temple was "Destroyed" symbolically

I agree. It was.

But, it was also destroyed physically in 70 AD. The disciples were marveling at the physical temple buildings standing at the time in Jersuslaem and then Jesus said they would be destroyed. This is undeniable as far as I'm concerned. And then the first question the disciples asked Him was "when will this happen" in relation to the temple buildings being destroyed. The other question related to when His coming and the end of the age would be.

I don't see a dual fulfillment, 70AD played no part in fulfillment of Matthew chapter 24, my opinion

I'm not saying dual fulfillment if you think I'm saying that everything He said had a fulfillment in 70 AD and will also have a fulfillment in the future. No. I'm saying that part of what He said related to 70 AD and the rest relates to His coming and the end of the age. The part that I believe relates to 70 AD is Matthew 24:15-22 and its parallel passages of Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He didn't answer that. Go ahead and quote him saying when it would happen.

Do you expect to be taken seriously when you claim that He didn't even answer one of the questions He was asked? You have to be kidding me. He answered it in Matthew 24:15-22 and the answer is also recorded in Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24.

 

[covenantee]

We don't agree much, but your 100% correct, and they're big stones upon one another

No matter how big they are, they're irrelevant, because the retaining wall was separate and apart from the temple, acknowledged by both Jews and Romans.

 

[covenantee]

He didn't answer that. Go ahead and quote him saying when it would happen.

Yes, Jesus told His disciples to go for dispensational futurist (df) coffee during His discourse, because not one word would be applicable to them.
However, I'm unable to find the df coffee verse.
Can anyone help?

 

[Truth7t7]

John was with the Jesus at the temple visit also, he didn't write a massive account like Matthew, Mark, Luke, in discourse

As is seen below, Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, when he died, and his disciples remembered what he said, explaining the temple destruction

I don't believe Jesus was referring to literal stones one upon another, Or a literal 70AD destruction

"John's account of the temple visit"

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you expect to be taken seriously when you claim that He didn't even answer one of the questions He was asked? You have to be kidding me. He answered it in Matthew 24:15-22 and the answer is also recorded in Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24.

Nope. Those verses cover when the antichrist comes to rule from Jerusalem. None of them are about the Romans. Jesus never said a word on the mount about some 40 years later some Jews would rebel against Rome and Rome would get revenge and destroy the city.

 

[ewq1938]

John was with the Jesus at the temple visit also, he didn't write a massive account like Matthew, Mark, Luke, in discourse

As is seen below, Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, when he died, and his disciples remembered what he said, explaining the temple destruction

I don't believe Jesus was referring to literal stones one upon another, Or a literal 70AD destruction

"John's account of the temple visit"

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

John 2 would be a long time before the timeframe of Matthew 24. The temple mentioned there is not what was being said in John 2.