The Nature of Jesus Christ

[Matthias]

You are not Jewish, by any chance?
J.

No, I’m not Jewish. My theology is Jewish.

Jesus is Jewish. His theology is Jewish.

 

[marks]

“Agent (Heb.Shaliah: The main point point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum, ‘a person’s agent is regarded as the person himself.”

What I’m saying is that Jesus is God figuratively, not literally.

That's what I thought. So when you say, "Jesus is God", you don't actually mean that. Yes? Certainly not in the context of our conversation.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

The "Spirit of God" has always been God's Spirit. read the Old Testament and ALL the references to God's Holy Spirit...then ask..why didn't the Jews ever consider God's Spirit to be a separate person from Him?

Do you realize that God (plural) IS SPIRIT.

let's see how you reason away the actual biblical stance from Paul who says...

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." 1 Cor. 2:11

Does this sound like someone who is trying to sell you on a "triune" God?
Or do you believe your spirit is a separate person from you?

Indoctrinated people will NOT use their reasoning since religious ideology appeals to a non-thinking part of a person. But we are to love God with the mind as well as the heart.

Happy hunting.

No need for happy hunting, go to genesis, see for yourself, I believe what I read in the scriptures, do you?
J.

 

[Episkopos]

No, I’m not Jewish. My theology is Jewish.

Jesus is Jewish. His theology is Jewish.

Ever heard of the Ebionites? They were Jewish believers who believed in poverty...as per Acts 2. They acted out the poverty of Jesus by following Him in a physical way. Are you like them? Or do you just do the easy stuff?

They died out because their understanding was faulty. The kingdom of God is spiritual and cannot be brought about by human poverty.

 

[Johann]

No, I’m not Jewish. My theology is Jewish.

Jesus is Jewish. His theology is Jewish.

Now I understand, you read the Midrash, Mishna, Rambanic writings, the Talmuds?
J.

 

[Johann]

It’s not the belief of Jesus. And if we read it carefully, it isn’t quite compatible with historic orthodox trinitarianism.

Surely your Jewish theology must include the Talmuds,Midrash, Mishna, Halaka, Kabbala and many more and the 7 Noachic laws, yes?
J.

 

[Episkopos]

No need for happy hunting, go to genesis, see for yourself, I believe what I read in the scriptures, do you?
J.

I don't believe what you interpret the bible to read. You are far more indoctrinated than you think. Know yourself...and your own religious inclinations.

Now honestly...no one would ever consider God's Spirit to be a separate person from God. The Jews know the scriptures much better than we do...and it never entered their minds to consider that God is somehow isolated from being omnipresent and all powerful.

The Father and the Son are ONE Spirit. Maybe if I wrote this out 10,000 times the sheer number would compete with your religious conditioning. Until then I appeal to your ability to reason from the scriptures.

 

[Johann]

that’s true we are all fallen nature and sin

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

we fail sometimes

humbly repent and go to the sacrament of confession

The 'sacrament' of confession?
J.

 

[Matthias]

That's what I thought. So when you say, "Jesus is God", you don't actually mean that. Yes? Certainly not in the context of our conversation.

Much love!

When I say “Jesus is God” I mean “Jesus is God only in a representative sense” - when we see and hear Jesus, we see and hear his God in him, the Father.

Jesus isn’t literally the Father, nor is he literally God.

When I say “Jesus is God” I don’t mean what you mean when you say “Jesus is God”.

Jewish unitary monotheism can handle “Jesus is God and Jesus isn’t God” because it recognizes and acknowledges that others besides God himself may be called “God” in scripture.

What I’m doing is using Jewish principles to understand and explain Jewish scripture. It makes more sense to me than using trinitarian principles to understand and explain Jewish scripture. That obviously and necessarily produces a different understanding of who God and Jesus are.

 

[Johann]

I don't believe what you interpret the bible to read. You are far more indoctrinated than you think. Know yourself...and your own religious inclinations.

Now honestly...no one would ever consider God's Spirit to be a separate person from God. The Jews know the scriptures much better than we do...and it never entered their minds to consider that God is somehow isolated from being omnipresent and all powerful.

The Father and the Son are ONE Spirit. Maybe if I wrote this out 10,000 times the sheer number would compete with your religious conditioning. Until then I appeal to your ability to reason from the scriptures.

One thing I'm not, and that is being indoctrinated.
Triune Godhead aside, are we worshiping our Father dia Christ Jesus?
J.

 

[Johann]

When I say “Jesus is God” I mean “Jesus is God only in a representative sense” - when we see and hear Jesus, we see and hear his God in him, the Father.

Jesus isn’t literally the Father, nor is he literally God.

When I say “Jesus is God” I don’t mean what you mean when you say “Jesus is God”.

Jewish unitary monotheism can handle “Jesus is God and Jesus isn’t God” because it recognizes and acknowledges that others besides God himself may be called “God” in scripture.

What I’m doing is using Jewish principles to understand and explain Jewish scripture. It makes more sense to me than using trinitarian principles to understand and explain Jewish scripture. That obviously and necessarily produces a different understanding of who God and Jesus are.

Which must be asked; who is Jesus?
J.

 

[Matthias]

Surely your Jewish theology must include the Talmuds,Midrash, Mishna, Halaka, Kabbala and many more and the 7 Noachic laws, yes?
J.

No. See the theology of Jesus. (He wasn’t into Jewish mysticism, the Talmud, etc.)

 

[Matthias]

Which must be asked; who is Jesus?
J.

The Messiah, the Son of the living God.

 

[Johann]

I don't believe what you interpret the bible to read. You are far more indoctrinated than you think. Know yourself...and your own religious inclinations.

Now honestly...no one would ever consider God's Spirit to be a separate person from God. The Jews know the scriptures much better than we do...and it never entered their minds to consider that God is somehow isolated from being omnipresent and all powerful.

The Father and the Son are ONE Spirit. Maybe if I wrote this out 10,000 times the sheer number would compete with your religious conditioning. Until then I appeal to your ability to reason from the scriptures.

You will never be able to convince me otherwise, I firmly and irrevocably believe in the Triune Godhead, even if I stand alone on this forum.
J.

 

[Johann]

The Messiah, the Son of the living God.

Yet you compartmentalize Y'hoshuwa HaMoshiach through Jewish lenses?
J.

 

[Matthias]

Yet you compartmentalize Y'hoshuwa HaMoshiach through Jewish lenses?
J.

Jesus is a Jew. I view him through the lens of his Jewish theology.

 

[marks]

What I’m doing is using Jewish principles to explain Jewish scripture. That makes more sense to me than using trinitarian principles to explain Jewish scripture. That obviously and necessarily produces a different understanding of who God and Jesus are.

Using trinitarian principles, does that mean having decided there is a trinity, and going searching for that in the Bible? I'm not sure what you mean there.

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

Using trinitarian principles, does that mean having decided there is a trinity, and going searching for that in the Bible? I'm not sure what you mean there.

Much love!

Often it does. That was the case with me. I was raised to see the Trinity in scripture and I saw

Cultural context, religious practices, word meanings, etc. from a trinitarian perspective.

If we have concluded that scripture was written by trinitarians won’t we find the Trinity there?

If we have concluded that scripture was written by non-trinitarians won’t we find the God of the non-trinitarians there?

Jesus is a Jew. He had, and still has, a God. There is no God besides his God. That’s not a trinitarian approach to reading, understanding and explaining scripture.

 

[Johann]

Jesus is a Jew. I view him through the lens of his Jewish theology.

Signing off now, late here in Africa.
God willing, see you tomorrow.
Shalom to you and family
J.

 

[Johann]

Often it does. That was the case with me.

Cultural context, religious practices, word meanings, etc. from a trinitarian perspective.

If we have concluded that scripture was written by trinitarians won’t we find the Trinity there?

If we have concluded that scripture was written by non-trinitarians won’t we find the God of the non-trinitarians there?

Jesus is a Jew. He had and still has a God. There is no God besides his God. That’s not a trinitarian approach to reading, understanding and explaining scripture.

The Shema.
J.