Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Right... in the first case His indwelling presence in those truely born again will constrain them. When we are faithless He is faithful because He cannot deny Himself - such is the compassion of Christ.
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Right... in the first case His indwelling presence in those truely born again will constrain them. When we are faithless He is faithful because He cannot deny Himself - such is the compassion of Christ.
Laughter is medicine for the heart.
I dont laugh at your legalism, i just realize that what you teach can harm a real believer, especially a new one.
Grailhunter....You are on this Thread, and any that Give Credit to the Cross, just to try to create bad feelings and general chaos.
Lies are permitted to exist at theology and personal attack on this Forum and so, you've found a safe house., for now.
What you stated is not OSAS., tho Ferris Bueller will think you are defining it.
He reads... "in Christ", as "license to Sin".
He reads "blood bought" as "cheap grace".
What you stated is The Gospel of the Grace of God, having been applied to a believer.
Salvation, ONLY depends on God who offers it and finished it, as He created it to be given as a Gift.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Of course.
IN your correspondence with Ferris Bueller, you posted in #279, ""My position depends on the finished work of Christ.""
So, you are defining for Ferris B, "your position". And that Position is as a eternally redeemed "Son of God".... made so, and created to be so, by, "the finished work of Christ".
This Finished Work, includes, God becoming a human, under the law, and living a sinless life, that Christ then sacrificed as your Salvation, that is the "finished Work" that you have received by faith, that God gave to you as "the Gift of Salvation".
So, Ferris does not understand that you are KEPT as God's, based on "the finished work of Christ that has become you, as "made righteous", a Son of God.
And that is his argument, which is literally him not understanding that SALVATION is the "finished work of Christ", that is GIFTED to us "through faith".... and maintained by God, to "all who believe" and are born again.
He does not understand that SAVED.....has a "D" on it.
He is still trying to be saved.....which he calls, "if i do this, then i will stay saved".
And that is not trusting in Christ.
That is trusting in self.
And such is being a member of His body, flesh of His flesh, and bone of His bone. No one ever hates their own body, but cares for it and nourishes it. And so are we, His body.
Much love!
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Yes I am aware of all that... but I am patient with him - Jesus is a good listener.
I was patient with Ferris for many months on my other many Threads that Lift up Christ on the Cross, where he landed to post pages of..."you can lose your salvation" heresy.
That's his personal gospel, as its the only one he preaches, post after post, like a broken Robot.
On This Thread i wrote, he is of course "back at it" with his one verse, and i was patient for about 10 pages of back and forth, and i wrote some lengthy detailed answers for him to consider to try to get him FREE from his bondage to self righteousness that has subverted his faith.
So....I didnt lose patience, i just realized that he can't hear., same as on my other Threads where he has the same issue.
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Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
And I'm sorry, I'm not following your thought here.
You are saying that if you think that rebirth is permanent, that somehow this means you may not realize you don't have the Holy Spirit in you? That seems non-sequitor to me.
Might not someone "take comfort in a salvation they don't have" for any variety of reasons? It seems to me the reality is that the unregenerate hold onto any number of different ways to self-justify, and pretend they are OK with God.
Considering though that Biblically we are instructed that we can know we are really God's children because of His Spirit Who lives in us, how does a OSAS or non-OSAS beliefs cause one to think they have the Holy Spirit when they don't? And how would this be any different from anything else someone might tell themself? Do you know what I'm asking?
Much love!
Terrific question, if ppl COULD truly answer this in honesty w/o the preface of I'm OSAS, I'm Baptist ect. ect or I believe blah blah, then there would unity in the body of Christ !
2 Tim.3:16 ( in context 3:14-3:17)
All scripture is given by INSPIRATION OF GOD, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in righteousness:
If ppl only HELD with what the word says and not by what they have been INDOCTRINATED with; it would be ALL that is needed to obtain eternal life. Indoctrination = the PROCESS of teaching a person or group to ACCEPT a set of beliefs UNCRITICALLY ! Btw if you are ONLY seeking for IMMORTALITY THROUGH ETERNAL LIFE , you are failing God.
He wants a ppl to LOVE and WORSHIP him.
Doctrine a set of beliefs HELD and TAUGHT by a CHURCH, POLITICAL PARTY OR OTHER GROUP!
All scripture is given by INSPIRATION OF GOD, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in righteousness:
If ppl only HELD with what the word says and not by what they have been INDOCTRINATED with; it would be ALL that is needed to obtain eternal life. Indoctrination = the PROCESS of teaching a person or group to ACCEPT a set of beliefs UNCRITICALLY ! Btw if you are ONLY seeking for IMMORTALITY THROUGH ETERNAL LIFE , you are failing God.
He wants a ppl to LOVE and WORSHIP him.
Doctrine a set of beliefs HELD and TAUGHT by a CHURCH, POLITICAL PARTY OR OTHER GROUP!
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Not too sure if this ONE thing will bring total unity, because of
other doctrines, such as baptism, tongues, etc., but since
Salvation Is of the Utmost Importance, I'll honestly try =
GRACE And Peace study has this, and,
1) ►faith◄ 2) ►►love◄◄ 3) ►►►hope◄◄◄:
Precious friend(s), for your Prayerful And Careful consideration:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not
trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He
will yet deliver us;" (2 Corinthians 1:9-10 KJB!) =
The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:
Is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing God's Differences Be-
tween "HIS Relationship With us," And "our fellowship with HIM!"?
God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:
► faith ◄
1) Past Tense = "...God delivered us from so great a death...":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who
humbly repent (change mind that "sin is Wrong!") and:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
HIS Death (Precious BLOOD), Burial, And HIS Resurrection,
According To The Scriptures!
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)
"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits
Of HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:
All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23; Romans 5:1)
This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [ Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8) =
Justification and Spiritual Sanctification
(2 Corinthians 1:10a cp Romans 3:24)
(More Biblical Confirmation is here: God's ETERNAL Assurance! And:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!)
1) ► faith ◄ God's ETERNAL Justification/Relationship Is First, And, Then:
►► love ◄◄
(2) Present Tense = "...God doth deliver us...":
All believers Should do "good works (faith which worketh by love!)"
{Which will Never Equal CHRIST's Payment For the above Penalty of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for Him, having
"been Called into fellowship With Him!" (Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9)
Amen?:
We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This
Should Be a lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing,
being "not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:1-2),
for Grace Deliverance From the Power of sin!}
(2 Corinthians 1:10b) = personal sanctification:
(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:
(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:
"Study to shew thyself Approved Unto God, a
workman that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly
Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB)
workman that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly
Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB)
►► love ◄◄
Eternal Results: reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3:8-15),
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will Finally Be
At The Judgment Day:
►►► hope ◄◄◄
(3) Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":
CHRIST's Glorification of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Presence of sin!}
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
2 Corinthians 1:10c). Hallelujah! Praise HIS Excellent Name!!
----------------------------------
Conclusion:
BIG Differences Between the THREE tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation,
And Between God's Relationship And our fellowship! Correct?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace! The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)
FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." 1 Corinthians 15:2
Why is this not assuring to you?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. That is the crux of whether or not OSAS is true. The Bible is clear that to be saved you have to continue to believe. That's not in doubt. What we can't decide on is if the true believer can stop believing. But since the Bible exhorts us to keep believing we should focus on that. Then the matter of whether or not we can stop believing becomes a moot point.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Which is a good reason to keep believing. For if we deny him in unbelief that very same passage you're referring to says he will deny us. Which brings us back to the question of whether or not a true believer can not only be unfaithful but also deny Christ in a willing and purposeful unbelief.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
exactly , we ought to simply exhort one another to continue in the faith , to continue to believe in Christ
to continue to the end . We should exhort JUST Like they did in the bible .
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We should also warn just like paul did , and Christ did , and peter did and james did .
ALL said not to sin . JESUS even said IF a man continues not in ME HE will be cast out . SO we ought to say the same thing too .
Paul warned the romans real clearly . And in many other places he warned and reminded them to continue in Christ , or else .
Even JESUS said it . SO why is it seen as legalism or not trusting in Christ when i say the same reminders .
THEY all said them . AND more than once too . WE ought to take a peek at the message to the seven churches as well .
About TO THE END . Its everywhere . Yet today , ITS CALLED LEGALISM to even make mention of those reminders .
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
I said...
↑
The indwelling presence of the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord seals against rejecting Christ.
You said...
"Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. That is the crux of whether or not OSAS is true. "
You sound
so here is a scripture that confirms it.
Jeremiah speaking of the New Covenant.
32:
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts, so that they will not turn away from Me.
↑
The indwelling presence of the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord seals against rejecting Christ.
You said...
"Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. That is the crux of whether or not OSAS is true. "
You sound
so here is a scripture that confirms it.Jeremiah speaking of the New Covenant.
32:
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts, so that they will not turn away from Me.
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