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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Yes he will. That's why we should continue to believe in so great and sure a salvation. It will not fail.
Unbelief is sinning. Failing to remain trusting is sin, all that is not of faith is sin. Pick your flavor of sin.
But the point is, if you've received Jesus in faith, and you are born of the Spirit, your subsequent failings in faith are part of the sins of the flesh, as all the rest.
What is sin in the Christian except the result of failing to trust? Certainly we mature to know more of His intend for us. Now that we know, to give to the one in need, if we do not, it can only be that we do not trust His provision for us, we do not trust His intend that this is good for us, we do not trust His promise to reward, we do not trust His almighty goodness so we will walk in His Way.
Compound sin upon sin in a misery of failure, and heap condemnation and fear, until there seems an insurrmountable wedge between the Father and His child, no voice crying out for rescue, only fear and dread of coming judgment.
The bent reed He will not break, and the smoldering wick He will not snuff out.
He is filled with compassion for us, and promises to break through even this, to restore us to the way of righteousness. He will not cast away because one thinks they should be, or have been, no, He is our Savior, and He will save us.
Much love!
It more resoundingly rejects, among others,
Hebrews 12:6-13 KJV
6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10) For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11) Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13) And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
If you are His son, He will 'chasten' you, that means, "train as you would a child". HIs chastening will result in the peaceable fruits of righteousness.
If you are not chastened, you are not His son. If you are, it works.
He will not just let you wander off.
Much love!
Look again that that passage.
He who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.
What hope?
We know that when we see Him, we shall be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
There are two very important points to make here. One is that becoming like comes from seeing Him as He is. Does this mean that the more we see Him as He truly is now, the more we will be like Him now? I believe so. 2 Corinthians 3:18 "beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, we are being transformed into the same image". A false view of our Savior takes us the wrong direction.
Another is that this is a simple statement, the one who has this hope purifies themself. It doesn't say someone else who doesn't, doesn't, and it doesn't say that they do. It just says that the one who has this particular hope does.
If you ask God the question, How can I live a pure life? This is a direct answer. There are others. Psalm 119 is fabulous! In this place, How can I live a pure life? By realizing that seeing Jesus is going to make you just like Him. We're His children now, and we don't know what we're going to be when He comes, but we know we'll be like Him, because we'll see Him like He really is. And expecting this, what He promised, we purify ourselves.
So what happens when you don't have that expectation, only more like the wistful sort of American hope, Oh, I hope one day maybe . . .", if you don't have that hope, will you purify yourself the same? With God, all things are possible. But this is what He said.
Much love!
I don't mean "Hope" in the wistful maybe oh maybe sort of way we commonly hear "hope" used today, but in the way the Bible uses the word, That we believe Jesus, so when He promises to raise us from the dead, we expect to be raised from the dead, which is our "hope of the resurrection".
You count it as a maybe. I do not. I do not see your faith to be the same as my faith. We both trust in Jesus, bur for different things.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I know that doesn't fit in your paradigm of thought where no other possible understanding of security of salvation exists. OSAS doesn't have to be true for salvation to be secure and everlasting. You just don't know how that can be possible. You're thinking is limited.He won't fail us, so we'd better keep believing so we aren't lost in the end!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The 'flavor' of sin that is distinguished from all the rest is the sin of willful unbelief. That is the one sin that the blood of Christ can not cover.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's important to distinguish between being unfaithful as a believer (cheating on your taxes out of fear, speeding out of fear, etc.) and and outright rejection of Christ in unbelief. Christ has the most unfaithful of sons covered. He has no obligation to the one who has departed from him in unbelief.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Or, more specifically to the point:
"9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God" 1 John 3:9-10
We know we are born again by how we live, not because of an OSAS doctrine. Assurance that we truly believe and are saved comes from how we live, not from believing that you can never lose your salvation.
No, not the same way. The expectation of something that may or may not happen is not the same as the expectation that something will happen.
Your view seems to require this self-delusion that we ignore the fact that we may change tomorrow so we can feel safe today. The issue is that you have to find that safety in yourself. Yes, Jesus is our faithful Savior, IF we are our faithful believer.
Rebirth becomes something not really knowable. Unless you are to say, having been made alive in Christ, you may yet die again.
You repeat that the distinction doesn't matter. That it doesn't matter if you are actually reborn today, or if you are self-deluded? That it doesn't matter if you are eternally secure in Christ, or if your jury is still out? That you destiny is unknown, dependant on what you will do, tomorrow, next year, and so on? That you only real security is in your own faithfulness?
I think these things matter.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Your POV,
I am right now secure in my salvation because I believe right now. So long as at all times in my life I can truthfully say, I believe right now, I remain assured of my salvation. Salvation only comes in believing, and if you stop believing, you are not saved, regardless of whether you truly were saved and stopped being saved, or if you only thought you were, you're not now, and that's what's important.
Is this correct?
My POV:
(fill in the blank)
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Committed by someone who is born again, this is what you are saying?
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's no different then when you first believed. Do you call the necessity to have faith when you first believed 'finding safety in yourself'? Probably not, but for some reason if you have to continue in that believing it's now finding safety in yourself???
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I posted Scriptures which specifically stated the answer to your particular question, why do you not look at those?
This is descriptive of those who are born again, however, the passages I posted express exactly what God intends as the means by which we know we are. Do you see the distinction?
Much love!
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