All are under sin

[RichardBurger]

So Jesus didn't live in the flesh? Or he wasn't perfect?

We can live fully in the Spirit while having our abode in this earhtly body. The Spirit can overcome the flesh. That is the gospel; behold, all things are new, and by the new we obercome.

You say we CAN live fully in the Spirit while our abode is in these earthly bodies. How well are you doing, do you wish to boast?

I get it what you are saying, WE overcome by the actions of OUR spirit to control our sinful nature. Okay, then what part does the Holy Spirit play?

I have never said that Jesus did not live in the flesh but His flesh was not of Adam's flesh. God was His Father. You have said your opinion of what I say before so you can use your opinion against me. All it is, is your opinion.

There is a lot of difference in can do and actually doing (Romans 7). Wake up, you still sin just as the rest of us. It is not our spirit that overcomes our sins. It is God's Spirit and He does it by placing us in Jesus who is our ARK.

 

[Prentis]

No, the Spirit of Christ in us.

Was Jesus in a body of flesh just like ours, yes or no?

Did he overcome perfectly, yes or no?

Have we received that same spirit, yes or no?

 

[Jake]

Richard,

You have been told over and over and over again, it's getting really old, when you tell someone something and they don't listen......

It is Christ IN US that is the overcomer, He is the one who overcomes through us, but the Bible says to ABIDE in Him, Obey.....

The Bible says it is no longer I, it is Christ living in me.......

You preach a powerless gospel..........

 

[Rach1370]

Walk with God as He directs but don't get on a forum and claim that you are becoming perfect in the flesh. That is boasting about your self. If you wish to boast then boast of the fact that Jesus saves sinners and we are all sinners.

When have I ever boasted that I was becoming perfect in the flesh? I expect to get there....never. I will struggle towards it, because that is what Jesus asks of me, but I will only attain it when I see Him face to face.
I'm really burned that every time I post, you see something that I just didn't write, and then feel you have the right to look down on me about it. You accuse me of boasting, of being self righteous, of making claims that aren't true etc etc...all of which I have not done. You say shame on me for these things, but just consider...If I haven't made these claims (which I haven't) then your accusations are making you the exact thing you accuse me of. Self righteous. If indeed I was claiming to be perfect, sure, rebuke me, but right now I think it is you who needs it.

 

[Prentis]

Richard, how did Christ remain perfect if he had a body JUST like ours?

The Lord bless you

 

[us2are1]

All are under sin:

It was asked by someone “would God ask us to do what we couldn’t do?“

The answer is yes, He asked the Jews to keep the Law of Moses. However, when they, the Jews, killed their Messiah (Jesus) He concluded that no man could keep the Law of Moses and He had another plan to save sinful men, a plan to shed the blood of His righteous Son on the cross to pay for the sins of mankind.

In this age of God’s grace salvation in not obtained by “not sinning in the flesh.” It is only obtained by a person placing their belief in the work of God on the cross. That means for a person to deny that they can do anything righteous to save him/her self and to simply place all their faith, trust, confidence and hope in what Jesus did on the cross. To claim His work on our behalf is our salvation. Jesus (God) gets all the glory and praise.

In this age of God’s grace all God asks a person to do is trust in His plan of salvation by placing their faith in His Son’s work on the cross. It is the only way that a person can be saved and yet many do not believe it is that simple. They insist that man has to work for it and become self-righteous.

You have things a little mixed up. Christ came first and then Man was created for Him to save. The whole plan of the old and the new covenant was from the beginning. You have to do what Christ said or you don't believe. It is that simple. Christ laid down His life only for His friends.

John 15
13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

 

[RichardBurger]

When have I ever boasted that I was becoming perfect in the flesh? I expect to get there....never. I will struggle towards it, because that is what Jesus asks of me, but I will only attain it when I see Him face to face.
I'm really burned that every time I post, you see something that I just didn't write, and then feel you have the right to look down on me about it. You accuse me of boasting, of being self righteous, of making claims that aren't true etc etc...all of which I have not done. You say shame on me for these things, but just consider...If I haven't made these claims (which I haven't) then your accusations are making you the exact thing you accuse me of. Self righteous. If indeed I was claiming to be perfect, sure, rebuke me, but right now I think it is you who needs it.

I have never claimed to be righteous in the flesh, you have.

 

[Rach1370]

I have never claimed to be righteous in the flesh, you have.

Oh yeah, when? I have said I am striving to become, as Jesus asks us to, but never that I am. So, unless you can point back and show me where I actually wrote "I AM righteous" then I suggest you stop slandering me, please.
Apart from the slander, you are also taking my meaning, which is purely Biblical, and purely about loving Jesus and serving Him, and making it seem selfish. I care nothing for seeming righteous in front of others. I am nothing in the grand scheme of things. Jesus is all, and my life, now that He has randsomed it, will be spend living for Him.

 

[RichardBurger]

Oh yeah, when? I have said I am striving to become, as Jesus asks us to, but never that I am. So, unless you can point back and show me where I actually wrote "I AM righteous" then I suggest you stop slandering me, please.
Apart from the slander, you are also taking my meaning, which is purely Biblical, and purely about loving Jesus and serving Him, and making it seem selfish. I care nothing for seeming righteous in front of others. I am nothing in the grand scheme of things. Jesus is all, and my life, now that He has randsomed it, will be spend living for Him.

That is what is wrong with many posts on my threads, a claim that WE must DO, that we must strive by our works to become like God. Never a message that a person struggling with his/her sinfulness has a friend that understands and cares about them. Just that a person must strive, strive, strive to make themselves worthy to be saved.

I am well aware that Satan's words to Eve was that she could become like God.

As for me I believe the word of God

Hebrews 4:1-11
4 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
NKJV

Many think the disobedience in verse 11 is commiting sins of the flesh but according to verse 2 it is a lack of faith in believing what God has said. What God has said, to us, is in the gospel of grace as given to Paul by Jesus; that all who place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross will become children of God by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jake]

This is worth repeating at this point of the thread.

The point of the gospel is being missed here. The gospel is the power of a new overcoming life, not a scheme to save carnal men. We are to turn away from those who deny the present power of the risen Christ in them that believe.

 

[Rach1370]

That is what is wrong with many posts on my threads, a claim that WE must DO, that we must strive by our works to become like God. Never a message that a person struggling with his/her sinfulness has a friend that understands and cares about them. Just that a person must strive, strive, strive to make themselves worthy to be saved.

I am well aware that Satan's words to Eve was that she could become like God.

As for me I believe the word of God

Many think the disobedience in verse 11 is commiting sins of the flesh but according to verse 2 it is a lack of faith in believing what God has said. What God has said, to us, is in the gospel of grace as given to Paul by Jesus; that all who place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross will become children of God by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Ok...just stop and really hear me. I do not, will not...ever...think that I can strive, by myself, to become like God. Ludicrous! I know full well that I cannot. The Bible is clear in telling us that man, by himself is incapable of even reaching for God, let alone living a righteous life.
What I am saying, is this: when we are saved, when we receive salvation by grace, we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit. Do you remember what Jesus called Him? A helper. What does the Holy Spirit help us with? With living a life that is not full of sin. He convicts us when we do sin, and it is only by His help that we are able to turn our backs on that sin, repent, and put it to death.
So, to recap. Yes, I'm striving. But not by myself or even for myself. I am but following the conviction and help of the Holy Spirit...God within us. And yes, the Bible tells us that we need to do this...by the Holy Spirit. Seriously...if we have the Spirit, and we're not grieving Him by ignoring Him, then we must strive. He's not just there to go along for the ride, watch us stumble around, sinning left, right and centre, not caring about it 'cause Jesus has got it! Nope, the Spirit is with us for a very specific purpose...to help us live a life that will give glory to God.
I am in no way, shape of form, trying to take away from what Jesus did, and add to myself. Jesus is everything, He did everything, and my salvation is assured. But I'm still going to live my life in response to that, and to the prompting of the Spirit. That's just the way it is, and that's the way the Bible tells it. So, honestly, if you want to keep reading into my posts a foolish self righteousness that is just not there...go for it...but it's not from my lack of trying to explain to you. The miscommunication and false presumption, is on your shoulders.

 

[Prentis]

This is worth repeating at this point of the thread.

Very much worth repeating

Jesus took on flesh just like ours, and overcome. Then he gave us of his spirit. We are made of exactly what he was, which means we can be just as he is! If we would follow the same leading that is offered us.

 

[Rach1370]

Very much worth repeating

Jesus took on flesh just like ours, and overcome. Then he gave us of his spirit. We are made of exactly what he was, which means we can be just as he is! If we would follow the same leading that is offered us.

Wait, wait. Yes, Jesus' ministry was empowered by the Holy Spirit. And yes, we too, as believers have that same Spirit helping us...but do you honestly think that we will ever, in this life, attain the same level of perfection as Christ did???

 

[Prentis]

I believe that if a man give himself over completely and fully to Christ, he can receive faith to move mountains and walk in perfect communion with the Father. It is nothing of his power, but the power of Christ in him. Of course, because our character needs refining, man falls from this. But when we are filled with all the fullness of the Spirit, we share the full ministry of Christ and walk just like him.

I believe we can attain.

The specifis? Don't know. I believe Christ can overcome fully in us.

 

[Rach1370]

I believe that if a man give himself over completely and fully to Christ, he can receive faith to move mountains and walk in perfect communion with the Father. It is nothing of his power, but the power of Christ in him. Of course, because our character needs refining, man falls from this. But when we are filled with all the fullness of the Spirit, we share the full ministry of Christ and walk just like him.

I believe we can attain.

The specifis? Don't know. I believe Christ can overcome fully in us.

Okay. Well, how do you explain that Paul...the man who wrote most of the NT...the one that Jesus specifically came down from heaven to choose, the one we are told again and again, was 'filled with' and 'full of' the Holy Spirit...right before his death, called himself the 'chief of sinners?'
Don't get me wrong, I too believe Jesus can do anything and everything, should He choose to, but I really don't know if He would chose this. For one, that would mean we would be better than Paul... the other things is this...if we attain Christ's perfection in this life...walk like Him, talk like Him, for all intents and purposes, mirror His life, then wouldn't that put glory on us? Wouldn't people then say..."look, there's _____, he's doing just what Jesus did....does that make him just like Jesus?" And as much as we could say "no, no, it's really Jesus who allows me to do this, people only see what they want to see. Plus, we know from scripture, that God's glory and righteousness to shown more perfectly in us as sinners. He does not rescue us and walk with us through our own virtues, it's because He loves us, and despite our weaknesses and sin, He chooses to save us. Imagine if many 'perfect' Christians were walking around...think of all the people looking at us...intimidating much??? Now think of Peter. How does Peter make a perfect example to us, and to the unsaved? Because again and again, he stuffed up...big time! He knew who Jesus was, knew how important He was, and still, he messed up. But Jesus forgave Peter, loved Peter, helped him back up! That is the example Jesus wants us giving to the world. He wants them to know that it is all about Him, His forgiveness, open to all, no matter how bad people fear they are.
Can you see? You are hoping that by striving...be it through yourself or even through Christ, that you will attain perfection. Why are you desiring that? For yourself? You may say 'no, not at all'....but just consider the example Peter and Paul are in their weakness....they are the men Jesus choose...to lead His disciples, and to write His book!! I do not think that Jesus would have us attain perfection until we have new, perfect bodies. Paul still calls us 'corruptible'....we will never get there, our earthly bodies have too many weaknesses. But that is okay, because we can show Jesus' glory and righteousness...His amazing grace, through our weakness, our struggles. And that's what's important, yeah? Giving and showing His glory??

 

[Prentis]

What gives him more glory than a man perfectly comformed to him? Isn't Christ the one who gave glory to God more than any other? We are just vessels, men know this. They are incapable of doing what Christ calls us to, as we are in our own power. If we walk in his power, and testify to it, they will glorify him because they will understand it is his power in us.

I want to be like my master, that is all. I want to run my race. I want to attain him.

 

[Shirley]

My fervent prayer is to be like Christ! To love like he did! To really care about people like he did!

 

[Prentis]

Amen Shirley! Let it be the desire of our hearts to be as he is! To be one with him, and with the Father!

 

[lawrance]

Poor Richard keeps banging on about "our works" because he does not understand that it's God's works in us that we are talking about and every sane person knows it is not of our works.

I think that it comes from a view of a doctrine that all people are totally and utterly corrupt. and we can do nothing at all ? and in this point of nothing they reject the Spirit could ever be in anyone.

 

[Jake]

A.W. Tozer said something like this:

We have become so concerned about salvation not being about works, we forgot about obedience.