If your claiming there is one God and Jesus is it the when does he talk to himself?
Why does He pray to himself?
"GOD WHY HAVE YOU ABANDONED ME"
- Thread starter Cristo Rei
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If your claiming there is one God and Jesus is it the when does he talk to himself?
Why does He pray to himself?
Christ's death was a horrible one and that must be the feeling one has at the moment of death. Loneliness. God must move away for death to occur perhaps.
The correlation with your story is that your mum is a different entity to you. And God appears to be a different entity to Jesus otherwise why would he be talking to himself?
Your avoiding the question in the op my friend. And your actually admitting that Jesus is the Son and God is the father which is mega confusing...
Do think Jesus is God?
If Jesus is God then why does he talk to himself? Why does he pray to himself?
I've thought about it deeply and those are my questions. I can understand Jesus the Son saying that to God the Father but it makes no sense, if their the same entity, that Jesus speaks and prays to himself like that
Also if your claiming that the use of the term abandon is wrong then you are saying that the Bible is wrong because that's what it says. Forsaken is another term used there in some versions of the Bible.
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That's how it appears Major
APAK said:
"The Trinity is a mystery"
I've only heard that from Catholics. I find it somewhat amusing that anyone can say they understand this mystery when not even the RCC says they do and they created the Trinity doctrine.
Prophecy of the psalm
I'm yet to hear that argument. I usually get this claim that Jesus is the Son and also the father which makes no sense at all. I'm also yet to hear a logical explanation as to why Jesus talks and prays to himself if he is God.
I've been giving them a chance to produce a logical explanation but no one is yet to do so.
The best argument in my book is the Catholic one. It's a mystery. At least they admit they don't know
Anyway let's see what other mental gymnastics people try to produce to my question, if they're game enough to address it
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JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
There is only one God Jehovah and his only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Savior, not two or three in one but two separate entities.
God the father and Christ his son.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
But by stating the question that way, doesn't that make "'God' can only be one Person" an unstated but assumed logical predicate?
Clearly, the Bible shows Jesus relating to "God" (or "The Father") as a person separate from Himself. The Bible also shows that Jesus is worthy of our worship. The Bible also shows Jesus doing things that the OT prophets said "God" and only "God" would do. The Bible (both OT and NT) clearly says that while there may be little-"g" gods, Man is to worship only one capital-"G" God. Fundamentalist Christianity assumes the Bible is inerrant. Trying to make a coherent systematic theology out of that set of conflicting logical predicates gives me a severe case of cognitive dissonance. The Councils of Nicaea and Chalcedon did the best they could with what they were given.
Since I don't/can't understand it, I'm going to be very judicious in making Trinitarian orthodoxy a non-negotiable criterion for defining who is or isn't a brother or sister in Christ. And I'll try to be humble regarding thinking I understand the nature of God.
Hello Cristo Rei,
I believe it was Jesus who was bearing the sin of the world, and God couldn't no longer look at His Son. It was probably the first time ever, that the Word of God, and the Father were separated due to the - body of Jesus being the sacrifice for sin being the sin bearer. The Word of God - went to Sheol, and God had raised the Word of God - back through the Lord Jesus Christ again as was promised.
Another thing to note is that even though Jesus quotes psalm 22: was to let others know around him, that He was indeed the Son of God, (I think anyway).
Always remember I could be wrong just sharing.
I predicted you would go here as per my post #6 as you and others have done in the past. There is nothing else you can say except punt and do a Hail Mary and pray. Just admit you do not have a scriptural answer and move on.
As @Aunty Jane said in her post #13, the Son of God HAD TO BE a completely human sacrifice to nullify the actions of the 1st Adam. Being any different would have made a mockery of the Father and Son fulfilling the requirements of LAW at least. We would still be in our SINS.
And incidentally, Christ is called not only the 2nd Adam, he is also called the LAST ADAM. I hang onto these two last words as a reminder. These two words are significant, and added into scripture for a strong reason, as these give some insight into how the Son was born in the womb of Mary. That if the plan of God was to make, yes, make not incarnate, another Adam or 3rd Adam he would have created another Yahshua from the genetic material of another human. Making a Yahshua II if you will, another 100% flesh and blood human male.
And then if his plan did call for a 3rd Adam, Trinitarians would have to scurry and figure out how to incorporate a 3rd ADAM. The concept of a Trinity would be in dire straits for sure to then account for another created human savior, aye. And can you imagine this 3rd Adam also crying out to his Father who is God. How possibly could a Trinitarian account for this? Just a thought, a real thought that really needs to be examined thoroughly, and sunken into many who say Jesus is part of some fantastic Greek/Roman mythological Godhood or divinity trio.
(ABP+) But whenG3753 G1161 cameG2064 theG3588 fullnessG4138 of theG3588 time,G5550 God sent forthG1821 G3588 G2316 G3588 his son,G5207 G1473 being bornG1096 ofG1537 a woman,G1135 being bornG1096 underG5259 law,G3551
(AFV) But when the time for the fulfillment came, God sent forth His own Son, born of a woman, born under law,
(ASV) but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(BBE) But when the time had come, God sent out his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
(Bishops) But when the fulnesse of the tyme was come, God sent his sonne, made of a woman, and made vnder the lawe,
(CEV) But when the time was right, God sent his Son, and a woman gave birth to him. His Son obeyed the Law,
(Darby) but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, come of woman, come under law,
(DRB) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law:
(EMTV) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, being born of a woman, being born under the law,
(ERV) But when the right time came, God sent his Son, who was born from a woman and lived under the law.
(ESV) But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
(ESV+) But R4when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, R5born R6of woman, born R7under the law,
(Geneva) But when the fulnesse of time was come, God sent forth his Sonne made of a woman, and made vnder the Lawe,
(GNB) But when the right time finally came, God sent his own Son. He came as the son of a human mother and lived under the Jewish Law,
(Greek NT TR) οτε δε ηλθεν το πληρωμα του χρονου εξαπεστειλεν ο θεος τον υιον αυτου γενομενον εκ γυναικος γενομενον υπο νομον
(Greek NT TR+) οτεG3753 ADV δεG1161 CONJ ηλθενG2064 V-2AAI-3S τοG3588 T-NSN πληρωμαG4138 N-NSN τουG3588 T-GSM χρονουG5550 N-GSM εξαπεστειλενG1821 V-AAI-3S οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM τονG3588 T-ASM υιονG5207 N-ASM αυτουG846 P-GSM γενομενονG1096 V-2ADP-ASM εκG1537 PREP γυναικοςG1135 N-GSF γενομενονG1096 V-2ADP-ASM υποG5259 PREP νομονG3551 N-ASM
(Greek VB) ότε όμως ήλθε το πλήρωμα του χρόνου, εξαπέστειλεν ο Θεός τον Υιόν αυτού, όστις εγεννήθη εκ γυναικός και υπετάγη εις τον νόμον,
(GW) But when the right time came, God sent his Son into the world. A woman gave birth to him, and he came under the control of God's laws.
(Hebrew NT SG) אַךְ כַּאֲשֶׁר מָלְאוּ הַיָּמִים שָׁלַח אֱלֹהִים אֶת־בְּנוֹ אֲשֶׁר נוֹלַד מֵרֶחֶם אִשָּׁה וַאֲשֶׁר נָתוּן תַּחַת מִשְׁטַר הַתּוֹרָה׃
(ISV) But when the appropriate time had come, God sent his Son, born by a woman, born under the Law,
(JUB) but when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(KJV) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
(KJV+) ButG1161 whenG3753 theG3588 fulnessG4138 of theG3588 timeG5550 was come,G2064 GodG2316 sent forthG1821 hisG848 Son,G5207 madeG1096 ofG1537 a woman,G1135 madeG1096 underG5259 the law,G3551
(KJV-BRG) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
(Latin) at ubi venit plenitudo temporis misit Deus Filium suum factum ex muliere factum sub lege
(LEB) But when the fullness of time came, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(LITV) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, having come into being out of a woman, having come under Law,
(LSV) and when the fullness of time came, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
(MKJV) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, coming into being out of a woman, having come under Law,
(Murdock) But when the consummation of the time arrived, God sent forth his Son; and he was from a woman, and was under the law;
(NENT) but when the fulness of the time came, *God sent forth his *Son, born of woman, born under law,
(NET) But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(NEV) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(RV) but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(TLV) But when the fullness of time came, God sent out His Son, born of a woman and born under law—
(TPT) But when that era came to an end and the time of fulfillment had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the written law.
(TS2009) But when the completion of the time came, Elohim sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under Torah,
(WEB) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law,
(WEBA) But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law,
(Webster) But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
(Weymouth) But, when the time was fully come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born subject to Law,
(Williams) but when the proper time had come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born subject to law,
(WNT) But, when the time was fully come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born subject to Law,
(YLT) and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
In Galatians 4:4 above, it says that Yahshua was made or come or come into being of Mary (her required genetic material) not by any incredible incarnation process, in over 25 percent of the earliest texts, and surprisingly in the KJV. The other popular translation is nonsense as it generally says Yahshua was born of Mary, that clearly is redundant and a useless term because we all know Yahshua was eventually born from the womb of Mary. No, God the Father and then the writer wanted to be succinct, informative, and would not insert superfluous words that do not add anything to the meaning and significance of the message in the verse.
The Greek transliterated term 'ginomai' means to generate, make, create, cause to come into being. The term 'born' is the end result of Yahshua's conception, generation, coming into being as a human creation.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The hardest people to reach with the Gospel are Christians.
So rather than allow scripture to interpret scripture, you choose to discard hundreds of scriptures that state Jesus is God. I see. You're rejecting the truth in favor of rationalizing with your carnal mind which is enmity against God.
You've totally lost me there.
Do you believe Jesus is God or not?
If so then answer my question please.
Why does He talk and pray to Himself?
That's what I believe as well
After all God did say "this is my Son"
And Jesus did say He is God's Son
Thanks for sharing
I want to reiterate that same point you finished with... I believe that Jesus is most probably a separate entity to God.
I also conceede that I could be wrong and I wish more people would admit that instead of being so certain and full of pride.
What are you talking about. No idea. How about addressing my question in the op instead of avoiding it with irrelevant comments.
Or would you rather ignore scripture that doesn't support your belief?
Has anyone even addressed my question.
Nope everyone just ignoring it and trying to take the topic else where...
Again...
If Jesus is God then why does He pray and talk to himself?
How can one abandon themselves?
Very few have tried to address this and im still yet to read a valid answer to this. One that makes sense
And when God says "this is my son" you really have to use mental gymnastics to try and twist that into something that makes no sense and is totally illogical
Nope everyone just ignoring it and trying to take the topic else where...
Again...
If Jesus is God then why does He pray and talk to himself?
How can one abandon themselves?
Very few have tried to address this and im still yet to read a valid answer to this. One that makes sense
And when God says "this is my son" you really have to use mental gymnastics to try and twist that into something that makes no sense and is totally illogical
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I can see that I lost you.
The Trinitarian doctrine states that God is three distinct persons sharing one essence. Your question postulates two distinct Persons talking to each other. What's unusual about that?
Now, one Essence talking to Himself...
Where I have problems is comprehending the distinction between "Essence" and "Personhood".
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Nowhere in the original scriptures does it talk about the Trinity or Godhead, that was added in later.
Why do you think Jesus taught us to pray to his father through him? The Lords Prayer.
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