Do Christians sin like the unbelievers?

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Johann

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It was not your imperfect performance but your imperfect theology that needed to be correct. The issue was not the sinless perfection of Christ -- which is a given -- but the claim by some that they do not sin at at all. You did not address that.
I call that circular reasoning


Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

J.
 

Johann

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I don't claim to be flawless. I don't have issues with self righteousness.
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

We have Pharisees here, slimy Pharisees

Adonoi, rachem na al choteh kamoni! (L-rd, have mercy on a sinner like me!)
J.
 
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mailmandan

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Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

We have Pharisees here, slimy Pharisees

Adonoi, rachem na al choteh kamoni! (L-rd, have mercy on a sinner like me!)
J.
Sadly, it's not hard to find modern day Pharisee types on various Christian forum sites. :( I am the publican and not the Pharisee.
 

Johann

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So you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time? (1 John 1:8-10)


1 John 1:5-2:11
1Jn_1:5 to 1Jn_2:28. God is Light
1Jn_1:5 to 1Jn_2:11. What Walking in the Light involves
This section is largely directed against the Gnostic doctrine that to the man of enlightenment all conduct is morally indifferent.

Against every form of this doctrine, which sapped the very foundations of Christian Ethics, the Apostle never wearies of inveighing. So far from its being true that all conduct is alike to the enlightened man, it is the character of his conduct that will shew whether he is enlightened or not. If he is walking in the light his condition and conduct will exhibit these things; 1. Fellowship with God and with the Brethren (5–7); 2. Consciousness and Confession of Sin (8–10); 3. Obedience to God by Imitation of Christ (1Jn_2:1-6); 4. Love of the Brethren (1Jn_2:7-11).
1 John 1:8
If we say] See on 1Jn_1:6. Doubtless there were some who said so, and more perhaps who thought so; ‘say’ need not mean more than ‘say in our hearts’. S. John’s own teaching might easily be misunderstood as encouraging such an error, if one portion of it (1Jn_3:9-10) were taken without the rest.
we have no sin] ‘To have sin’ is a phrase peculiar to S. John in N. T. There is no need to inquire whether original or actual sin is meant: the expression is quite general, covering sin of every kind.

Only One human being has been able to say ‘The things pleasing to God I always do’; ‘Which of you convicteth Me of sin?’; ‘The ruler of the world hath nothing in Me’ (Joh_8:29; Joh_8:46; Joh_14:30).

The more a man knows of the meaning of ‘God is light’, i.e. the more he realises the absolute purity and holiness of God, the more conscious he will become of his own impurity and sinfulness: comp. Job_9:2; Job_14:4; Job_15:14; Job_25:4; Pro_20:9; Ecc_7:20.


we deceive ourselves] Not merely we are mistaken, or are misled, but we lead ourselves astray. In the Greek it is neither the middle, nor the passive, but the active with the reflexive pronoun: the erring is all our own doing. See on 1Jn_5:21. We do for ourselves what Satan, the arch-deceiver (Rev_12:9; Rev_20:10) endeavours to do for us. The active (πλανᾷν) is frequent in S. John, especially in the Apocalypse (Rev_2:26; Rev_3:7; Rev_2:20; Rev_12:9; Rev_13:14; Rev_19:20; Rev_20:3; Rev_20:8; Rev_20:10). An examination of these passages will shew that the word is a strong one and implies serious departure from the truth: comp. Joh_7:12.
the truth is not in us] Because we are in an atmosphere of self-made darkness which shuts the truth out. The truth may be all round us, but we are not in contact with it: it is not in us. One who shuts himself in a dark room has no light, though the sun may be shining brightly. All words about truth, ‘the truth, true, truly,’ are characteristic of S. John. Note the antithetic parallelism, and see on 1Jn_1:5.

J.
 

Johann

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Sadly, it's not hard to find modern day Pharisee types on various Christian forum sites. :( I am the publican and not the Pharisee.
I am seriously considering to join another forum, but I guess they are all alike, here pride is not even hidden, is is blatantly open for all to see.
J.
 
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mailmandan

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I am seriously considering to join another forum, but I guess they are all alike, here pride is not even hidden, is is blatantly open for all to see.
J.
There are multiple Christian forum sites out there to join (and some are better than others) yet they all have their share of trolls, agitators, self promoters, spiritual narcissists, modern day Pharisees/false teachers/pseudo Christians etc.. It's truly sad when you come to these forums seeking Christian fellowship and edification and instead find yourself in a hornet's nest.
 

Johann

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There are multiple Christian forum sites out there to join (and some are better than others) yet they all have their share of trolls, agitators, self promoters, spiritual narcissists, modern day Pharisees/false teachers/pseudo Christians etc.. It's truly sad when you come to these forums seeking Christian fellowship and edification and instead find yourself in a hornet's nest.

The bible is about Christ Jesus, not about "we" and most are unfamiliar with inductive studies.

 
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mailmandan

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The bible is about Christ Jesus, not about "we" and most are unfamiliar with inductive studies.

Sadly, many people will end up finding out the hard way that it's not about Lord, Lord, didn't "WE" as we see in Matthew 7:22-23. It's about Lord, Lord, didn't "YOU." (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 etc..).
 
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farouk

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In another Thread, one has claimed to be sinless. See post #196 from the link below.

1st problem with O.S.A.S.

Others refuse to answer my question and instead resort to ridicule.
@mailmandan I think ppl misunderstand the continual cleansing that is the experience of the believer who depends by faith on the Person and Work of Christ. John's First Epistle is very helpful here...
 

BarneyFife

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There are multiple Christian forum sites out there to join (and some are better than others) yet they all have their share of trolls, agitators, self promoters, spiritual narcissists, modern day Pharisees/false teachers/pseudo Christians etc.. It's truly sad when you come to these forums seeking Christian fellowship and edification and instead find yourself in a hornet's nest.
I have watched your activity for several years on this and another forum.

Of your 2073 total posts here at CB, 91 of them are contained in the fellowship forum.

That's less than 5%.

You lurk in obedience vs. cheap grace threads, post hit-and-runs, and -like- the posts of those who make the most forceful arguments against obedience in the life of Christians.

You are quite chummy with a member on CF.com who is one of the most vicious enemies of Christian obedience I have ever encountered.

This is not ad hominem. These are facts.

If you are, as you say, "seeking Christian fellowship," you might want to review your method.
 
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mailmandan

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How sad, indeed, that the words of Christ's parable teaching humility before God evoke no humbler reply from you than:

"I am the publican and not the Pharisee."
How so? I came before God in the same way as the publication, "have mercy on me a sinner" rather than the Pharisee who trusted in himself.
 

BarneyFife

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I am seriously considering to join another forum, but I guess they are all alike, here pride is not even hidden, is is blatantly open for all to see.
J.
I thought this forum was helpful in your struggle with Calvinism. I can't understand why you keep threatening to leave. Pride is everywhere. But thanks for pointing out the splinter. :)
 

BarneyFife

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How so? I came before God in the same way as the publication, "have mercy on me a sinner" rather than the Pharisee who trusted in himself.
Still defending/justifying yourself? Why is it important for me to know how you came to God?
 

BarneyFife

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It was not your imperfect performance but your imperfect theology that needed to be correct. The issue was not the sinless perfection of Christ -- which is a given -- but the claim by some that they do not sin at at all. You did not address that.
I didn't address that because I don't claim that. And very few people have the nerve to do so. So why all the ruckus?

It's largely just a big, fat straw man, and everyone knows it.

I'll tell you why, though. Christians don't like being told that they have sin any more than worldlings do.
 

ChristisGod

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I call that circular reasoning


Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

J.
Why another thread on the same topic again ?
 

mailmandan

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Still defending/justifying yourself? Why is it important for me to know how you came to God?
Who went away justified? The Pharisee or the tax collector? How am I justifying myself by coming to God in the same way the tax collector did? There are only two roads here. It's one or the other.
 

BarneyFife

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In another Thread, one has claimed to be sinless. See post #196 from the link below.
So... what??!!!

You and others probably bullied him into it.

Others refuse to answer my question and instead resort to ridicule.
Funny how people don't like to answer trap questions, isn't it?

You know, the kind of questions that are designed to get people to appear to be saying something they don't actually believe?

Have you ever had that happen to you?

It's not pleasant, is it?